Another responsible NRA member

“That's fine and all Y2 but why do all these stories of people doing stupid stuff with guns never say they were NRA members? I know V has integraty problems when it comes to telling the truth but, does he think we're that dumb we'll buy anything he cuts and pastes?”

“lol - I can't justify what he's up to, the favorite gun thread would seem to be a better place for it.”

“I just assume the standard Violin justification...he's a phucktard and is not responsable for his own actions. LOL!”

“ummm... Nigal - there's a "T. Funchess" listed on the Jackson, Mississippi NRA membership page.”

“Nice try. LOL!”

“I guess you're not that dumb afterall.”

“[knocking self on hockey helmet]

DUH! That's what I been tryin' to tell ya!”

“With over 90 million adults owning a gun and almost 40 million children, it is hard to think of almost any other potentially dangerous products kept in American homes that have as few accidental deaths associated with them. But accidental gun deaths are much rarer than most people might think, being just a small fraction of children killed in car accidents, fires, drownings, and other accidents. Guns clearly deter criminals, with Americans using guns defensively over 2 million times each year. The overwhelming majority of gun owners must be extremely careful or such gun accidents would be much more frequent.”

“What gets me about gun control freaks is that what they really want is to disarm minorities. Mostly they live in urban areas like NYC, Philly, Washington, Baltimore, Chicago. etc. They look at the newspapers and see who was arrested for this or that gun felony. Their first reaction is we have to disarm "those kind of people". According to statistics, most of those people happen to be minorities.
>
Well it doesn't work like that. We all get to have guns and thank Allah's true Prophet for it. Guns are the only thing that keeps the federales from turning this place into a real police state.
last edited: 12/14/04 7:31:50 PM”

“I had work to do yesterday in the lovely West Ward of Newark. I'm not a gun-control freak, but I saw the crime tape at one of these:


Five shootings -- four in Newark, one in Irvington -- within seven hours yesterday left three men dead and three others wounded, police said.

The shootings, which took place between 2 p.m. and 9 p.m. within a one-mile radius, left neighbors shaken and police scrambling to apprehend the gunmen.

Police said late last night they had not determined whether any of the shootings were connected.
[snip]


I think people who want to reclaim some quality of life in our older cities might be justified in wanting to restrict access to firearms.”

“Sounds more like they need to control the NJ riff raff. Not guns.”

“Someone who is going to commit a murder is going to follow a law restricting access to guns? That is ludicrious. All those homicide victims needed a gun to give them a fighting chance at self defense. No gun, no chance to win a gunfight. Tough guns laws, more homicides.”

“Yes prosecutor, that's why America has such a low homicide rate. Can only think where it would skyrocket to if you provided some moderate restrictions on who can get one.”

“I mean, following your idea through, why not make guns compulsory with students in all schools. The next time some teen goes on a rampage his classmates can shoot him dead after only say half a dozen are dead rather than a dozen.”

“prosecutor is a living, breathing bumper sticker.”

“Violin probably owns several firearms himself. He's probably a Rosie O'Donnel type. He probably has automatic weapons and sawed-off shotguns to boot.

I remember reading that the Columbine duo had broken something like 27 state and federal laws before they fired their first shot inside the school. Do you really think they thought to themselves, we shouldn't shoot and kill our classmates because it's against the law?

Get real losers. Do you really think a criminal is going to consider the law when obtaining a gun?”

“So what you're saying is that nothing can be done to effectivily limit the number of guns available to teenagers and criminals out there. So lets all just give up and arm everyone instead?”

“"Violin probably owns several firearms himself. He probably has automatic weapons and sawed-off shotguns to boot."


Well… the girls in the office think it’s more than a coincidence that the day I was in Newark, everyone got shot up. They’re calling me a gansta.”

“And what prosecutor appears to be saying is that it's remarkable that more people aren't killed given the huge number of guns out there.”

“Owning a firearm is a personal decision.

Unarming law abiding citizens because of an irrational fear of guns is moronic.”

“Arming moronic citizens because of an irrational fear of crime is also...errrrr.... moronic.”

“I agree. If you are a moron, you shouldn't own a gun. Who gets to make that decision? You, Violin, the government? You could say the same thing about car owners.”

“yes yes, should we ban cars.... read some others off the NRA list. When your gun will take you to work the comparison will be valid.”

“Walking will take you to work also. It'll just take you a little longer.”

“"If you are a moron, you shouldn't own a gun."

Looks like you've violated your own rule.”

“Hey everbody, cut and paste boy made a funny.”

“I think people who want to reclaim some quality of life in our older cities might be justified in wanting to restrict access to firearms.”
Violin
10:42:30 AM
12/15/04

They are restricted. The people doing the killing don't follow regulations. Duh!”

“So what you're saying is better laws and more enforcement BBW.”

“I did not say that.”

“Violin,
Once again you're on the wrong side of the gun issue. Those people in Newark doing all the shooting in all probability were felons in the first place. Therefore it is illegal for them to own a gun. Did that stop them? No. I would even go so far as to say that it is probable that the guns they were shooting were stolen. Criminals don't/won't obey any gun law on the book. Statistically the only people that would comply with a gun confiscation law would be the very people who would never commit a crime with a gun. Then the crime rate would go up, not down, just like it has in the countries that have tried your approach. This includes Canada, Australia, and the UK. When criminals know their potential victims don't have any way to defend themselves, they are emboldened to commit more crimes.
>
Face it. If you read any document written by the founding fathers, they all very clearly state that the purpose of the 2nd Amendment is to arm ALL citizens to prevent the tyranny of an abusive government. Document after document, after document. Even the legal eagles that would love to ban guns have reached the point that they know they are going to have to take another approach because the "A well regulated militia" attack plan doesn't hold water when you look at the intent of the original documents.”

“Gun nuts don't read so good.”

“I don't give a crap what the Founding Fathers intended. I believe that in this day and age, an armed citizenry is essential to slow down our march to fascism. That's why I started my post with "I'm not a gun-control freak".

The purpose of my post was to counter your charge of racism on the part of those pushing for some form of gun control. I'm sure the folks living in those neighborhoods would love to see "those kind of people" (gang bangers) disarmed.”

“"I don't give a crap what the Founding Fathers intended. I believe that in this day and age, an armed citizenry is essential to slow down our march to fascism."

??? As I previously stated, the founding fathers believed the very same thing you just stated.

Hey we're on the same team. It's the liberal concept of "I want to help 'those kind of people' by getting rid of the guns" that pi$$es me off. It's a subtler, kinder type of racism and you would never get the gun controllers to admit it but it's racism just the same.
>
IMO what 'those kind of people' need to do is hold their local law enforcement to a standard. The laws are already on the books, enforce them. They need to, in effect, clean up their OWN streets. They need to quit turning a blind eye to drug dealers etc, or even worse, excusing it because of who is doing it. And they need to be armed to protect themselves against lawbreakers and the gubermint!
last edited: 12/15/04 2:06:56 PM”

“once again the lies and falsehoods propagated by the NRA are trotted out almost verbatum. I particualrly like the use of evidence in other countires and rising crime rates. The use of the UK is particularly interesting, where guns have never been widely held by the population. This is normally put forward by seriously ill-imformed people who know nothing about the situation, yes that's you. Someone once pointed me to a so-called scolarly report by some gun nut, tracking the restirctions on guns and rising crime in the UK, only the evidence it uses is so selective as to lend the paper little more purpose than lining the bottom of the hamster cage with it.

SH, the real racism is put forward by the gun nuts, like yourself, who like to blame crime problems on particular races, like Charlton Heston did in such a vile manner before his marbles dissappeared.

SH, vigilate justice seems to be your answer.

Is it me or are those who use these arguments just accepting that there's nothing can be done about crime?

So what about New York, the declining crime rate there has been held up as one of the best examples of tackling the problem. So New York, did they arm the populace?”

“Currently it is a felony for any felon to possess any firearms. Sure hasn't stopped the criminals from arming themselves.

Guns commit crimes like a spoon made Rosie O'Donnell fat.

In Switzerland, every man has an assault rifle, and their homicide rate is lower than the U.S.”

“Well obviously they need to be prosecuted more effectively then. Who's responsible for that ;o).”

“Are these posts really written by the same person?


"Guns are the only thing that keeps the federales from turning this place into a real police state."

..."what 'those kind of people' need to do is hold their local law enforcement to a standard. The laws are already on the books, enforce them."”

“I don't support outlawing guns, but if you are going to control their use the answer is to control ammunition...it's a long term solution, just outlaw sale of ammunition and reloading supplies......the guns you would never get back, but sooner or later the lack of ammunition would make them useless...

Yeah, I know, there are ways around that, like smuggling and the black market...didn't claim to make a perfect solution here...”

“I commend Prsecuter and Solitary Hiker in turning this thread around and trolling the troll. Good going guys! LOL!

Why is it liberals are all about freedom until it comes to the freedoms they don't believe in like gun ownership and freedom of religion?”

“The only problems come when the freedom afforded to the individual infringe on the freedoms afforded to others.”

“And why is it that Conservatives can't even see their freedoms are being cut into as long as GW tells them it's being done to protect their freedom?”

“The legal right to arms does not infringe on your legal rights.”

“it does if you get shot by someone upholding that right.”

“Your right to live peacefully is as important as a child in an inner-city school. Many people living outsite that environment don't seem to be able to relate to it at all. Just because gang members aren't shooting each other in their town they seem to think it doesn't matter.”

“Someone shooting you is not expressing their right to bear arms. They are breaking the law. This is where you are in the wrong because you are not making the distinction between the criminal gun users and the law abiding gun owners. It sounds worn out but...it's not the gun, it's the person behind the gun.

Just as a ball bat is not eveil, they can be used by evil people. BAN BASEBALL!! LOL!”

““Your right to live peacefully is as important as a child in an inner-city school. Many people living outsite that environment don't seem to be able to relate to it at all. Just because gang members aren't shooting each other in their town they seem to think it doesn't matter.”

Oh I can relate. But, and again, it's a worn out comparison but...it's as silly as banning cars because of a small minority of drunk drivers. So can you honestly tell me that if guns were banned these gang bangers would not still be shooting?”

“no, but no-one is talking about banning guns, that's where the whole argument falls down. Guns are a fact of life in America and always have been. They'll always be out there and people will always be shooting each other. Just as you're made to take a test before you can drive a car, then you should take one before you can get a gun, or buy ammunition. The penalties for violating this should be severe and properly enforced. I just don't think the answer to the problems of guns, and there are problems as well as benefits, involves letting getting guns in the hands of as many people as possible.”

“See guns are ludicrously easy for anyone to get hold of at the moment, and anytime anyone even mentions an idea to try and make it slightly more tricky for criminals and children to get hold of, the same old "banning" guns arguments come out, cars, blah, crime down blah, uk australia blah"
No-one is trying to ban them, why does the argument turn to this any time it's mentioned.”

“"Just as you're made to take a test before you can drive a car, then you should take one before you can get a gun, or buy ammunition."

I agree 100% with this. But we simply have to face facts. The criminal element that misuse guns, by and large, do NOT get their guns through legal means. Even this type of system would not make a dent in crime. Just like the assult weapons ban didn't.”

“Really Nigal? You have a study to back that up? I thought violent crime declined over the period the assault weapons ban was in effect.”