“Actually in may areas they are not allowed to bring prisoners into thier trials shackled because it "interfeers witht he presumption of innocence".”

“So, this is a situation where you are arguing what choice of weaponry they are using? I still don't see where this becomes one of the traditional gun control arguments. This is a law enforcement situation. What are you not seeing here?”

“Right, HPM. I took that into account when I said he should have had more officers around him, due to the nature of this guy's past. More coverage and those people would be alive today. Simple! WTF does that have to do with tasers? Manuka's off on a tear again!!!”

““Ya know what? I think it’s time we all got brutally honest with each other. It’s time we all come right out and say what no one wants to. To say that one single thing that will get us all called closed minded, un-PC, and ignorant. OK, I’ll go first…

“I, Nigal J. McGillicutty, don’t give a shlt what anyone thinks. Don’t agree with me? Tough shlt brother. I don’t give a flying phuck what the left thinks. I don’t give a flying phuck what the right thinks. I don’t give a flying phuck what YOU think. Forget all the ‘Let’s have an open dialogue and learn from each other.’ PC bull chit. You don’t care, I don’t care, WE don’t care. These are my beliefs. This is what I think. Do you really, really think that anyone on here as the credibility to even comment on another‘s views? Think again.”

Now, if we get that out of the way we can all agree that all we are engaging in here is shouting. Who can shout the loudest, longest and shrillest. That’s who wins on TT.””

“Tree,

The gun control argument always excludes Law Enforcement because otherwise they cannot ever get a restriction passed.

The gun control argument states that if you have a gun it is more likely to be used against you than for you to use it to protect yourself.

Here is a perfect contradiction where the Law Officer provides the gun to the criminal, in a situation where the law officer had a viable alternative to the gun they so nicely provided to the criminal.

The other argument is that Law Officers must have a gun as they are obliged to protect others, but that obligation does not apply to a person protecting themself or their family.

I am simply wondering why the gun control lobby is not asking why Law Officers should not have guns in a courtroom as a viable alternative is available.
You would hear loud enough if it was a civilian gun that was used to kill people.

Cops with guns on the street - Absolutely they need them. But when you select an enclosed location where no-one is to have guns, a courtroom, there should be no priveleged group that rules do not apply to.

If the officers had tasers, no one would have been killed !!.

Are you arguing FOR carrying guns now Tree?”

“Treebeard an anti-gun pansy??? Big surprise!

Good points, manuka. This is one issue where the anti's have no compelling arguments whatsoever.”

“"Also interesting that I cannot find a single reference in domestic news that happens to mention HOW Nichols got his gun. Got to check the international papers for that!!."
- manuka
9:00:46 AM


I guess you're just getting your news from the wrong sources. So-called "liberal media" sources ABC News and The Washington Post both reported how he got the gun. The New York Times also reported it and have an in depth story about court house security.

I guess Rupert Murdoch doesn't want you to know the details.
last edited: 3/14/05 10:38:20 AM”

“The same anti-gun crowd wants tasers done away with also.”

“Figures, ULTRAPecker. They fear guns so they want to run away from them (which means trying to make ownership too restrictive), so it doesn't surprise me that they also fear non-lethal deterrents.”

“I guess Rupert Murdoch doesn't want you to know the details.
last edited: 3/14/05 10:38:20 AM”
vioLIN
10:36:29 AM
3/14/05

When did Rupert Murdoch buy Google V ??

Oh, and 2 of your 3 references requires subscription. The other had no statement from Gun Control suggesting a solution to this crime.
I heard it on the radio, and googled for info this morning as I noticed the anti-gun crowd seemed to have missed this little snippet.
last edited: 3/14/05 11:05:05 AM”

“I guess Rupert Murdoch doesn't want you know how to use a search engine.”

“No, Manuka. My whole argument has nothing to do with gun control, so stop taking it there. if you care to debate the point of how well guarded this man was, based on his history, then let's talk. if not, then I wll field statements from others, as I have been through gun control with you. You know where I stand. I did not go there. You did...”

“The Atlanta Journal-Constitution reported Monday that a courthouse surveillance camera recorded Nichols' initial surprise attack on Deputy Cynthia Hall but that no one in the control center noticed the assault.

"It's not just horrible, it was preventable," Senior Superior Court Judge Philip Etheridge told the newspaper.

A video camera that is supposed to be monitored by two guards in a command post shows Nichols lunging at Hall and knocking her backward, according to a law enforcement official who saw the tape.

Etheridge said Hall, a petite 51-year-old, should not have been alone with Nichols, a former college linebacker who had been found with two sharpened door hinges in his socks earlier in the week.

Hall remained in critical condition Sunday, Grady Memorial Hospital officials said.

___

Associated Press writer Daniel Yee contributed to this report.”

“Thank you, LS, for staying on point with me. That's all I was saying. Knowing that they had to comply with the law and leave this monster uncuffed, I felt that it would have been prevented if there were 6 big guys accompanying him through the door.

You can continue the rant now, Manuka. Don't shoot yourself in the foot, though! :)
last edited: 3/14/05 11:13:09 AM”

“....still waiting for that definition of "well regulated militia".”

“I am staying on point with you Tree.

If there WAS 6 guys leading him in and he grabbed a gun from one he could still shoot them all. This is a text book situation used by gun control advocates for NOT having a gun, why have they not mentioned it.

Are you also stating that women should not be in law enforcement?.

A little sexist don't you think?
Are you suggesting the petite deputy should have stayed in the kitchen.”

“Not sexist Manuka. I think most females I've talked to in law enforcement are able to defend themselves, but would realize that they could perhaps be at a disadvantage when wrestling for a gun with a 6ft 2 200 llb guy. It might also be the case should you put a much smaller guy to escort him too.”

“I think there's maybe a case for having those doing the escorting unarmed, but having armed officers in the building to repsond to any incident.”

“Nice try, Manuka. Crappy trolling, though. I'm not falling for it.
last edited: 3/14/05 12:12:12 PM”

“Given this guy's past, I wouldn't recommend a solitary figure of either sex to pull this off. Too risky. How about a split of the sexes of 6 strong people. Better?”

“Y2,
my argument is "what was the gun doing there?"

There was no reason to have a gun there, there was a single accused being escorted to the court room.
One officer, one potential bad person, short range.
The situation would be infinitely safer with the officer having an electronic stun gun in her hand, rather than a firearm in a holster.

Size is irrelevant.

I being on the side of firearm possession actually do think the officer should have a gun because she could be called for duty anywhere and while on duty should have a gun. In this instance escorting a prisoner she should have had some form of weapon 'in her hand', rather that the (in hindsight) dubious safety of a holster.
In a public place with a single prisoner the electronic stun gun would be far more effective in her hand than a gun.

But the gun in her hand would have worked also IF she had the mental capacity to shoot.

I say mental capacity because some people could not bring themselves to shoot. There was a trial in NJ some years ago where a woman was abducted from a convienience store, her baby was dumped and almost froze to death, he raped her and stabbed her 21 times, killing her. The prosecution called for a death penalty (sort of irrelevant as NJ never executes anyone) but a juror who was questioned during selection and said they could impose a death penalty, would not, or could not, when faced with the actual decision (Guilty).

Some people just could not bring themselves to shoot, even to save a life.
I do not know the circumstances for this deputy, was it hesitation? was it surprise?.”

“Refusing the "safety in numbers" argument? Cool! I'm done here...”

“Tree, try history - the 300 Spartans.

In the hall corridor of a courtroom there would be no point in 6 people. In a narrow corridor you have the 1 in front and the 1 in back.
All the other could do is look on.

I think one person - armed - behind them with a non-lethal weapon because it is much more likely to be actually used would be a lot safer than you 6 goons in single file.

Oops forgot - big government - tax the people and build grandiose public buildings so 6 people can walk anywhere in the building, correction make that 6 large people.

You are done here.”

“Wasn't aware of the corridor size(matter of fact, not sure how you are aware of that either). Also, I am betting that he took advantage of a situation that he saw an opening to escape. With more support around him, he may not have been so bold. Guess you're done here, too!”

“What does this have to do with my right to own my Glock .45?”

“Geo, Only petite female deputies over 50 are allowed to own Glock .45's.

You see Glock is an Austrian company, which is the country of origin for the GropenFuhrer, so only Die Gropentarget can have zee Glock.”

“Oy!”

“Manuka, ... you'll have to pry it out of my cold, dead hands.”

“No, Geo you can keep it, but you just might be making yourself an attractive groping target for the Governator.”

“I don't think I'm built right for that, thank heaven! Maria might grope me though. That's a frightening thought.”

“It is a nice shooting 'arn though. Handles better than my lousy 9 mm.”

“I am just glad that USA does not have a hard-on for vehicular homocides. We would never be able to wade through all that.”

“vehicular homocides ??

Only alternate lifestyle Homicides with a vehicle.
Are homo's killed with vehicles that often ??
What about vehicular lesbiancides ?

Just funnin' with ya BBW :-))”

“Bacpac's Freudian slip is showing again.”

“Man Who Threatened Frederick's Mayor Gets Guns Back

Updated: Friday, Mar. 11, 2005 - 7:10 AM

http://www.wtop.com/index.php?sid=443347&nid=25

FREDERICK, Md. (AP) - A Brunswick man will avoid prison time and will get his guns back, even though he's been found guilty of threatening Frederick Mayor Jennifer Dougherty.

Richard Macalarney, 40, was given an 18-month suspended sentence Thursday and was fined $500 and court costs.

Macalarney was arrested in September after he allegedly called a county office and threatened to kill Dougherty, then barricaded himself inside his home for more than five hours. His blood alcohol level was more than twice the legal limit.

Authorities said Macalarney was upset that street closures for a city event would interfere with his flower delivery business.

After his arrest, police seized 51 guns from a locked gun safe at his home. The judge ordered the return of the weapons.”

“Owned 51 guns
Locked in a safe
Legal enough that a judge orders them returned.

This one probably is an NRA member.”

“Whoa, a drunk flower delivery guy with 51 guns!!

What kinda pansy needs 51 guns?”

“A collector, I know a few.
One has several pre-civil war muskets, most would be far too dangerous to shoot as black powder is corrosive and has eaten the barrel inside.
Another has old Handguns, again a lot of black powder.
Another collected WWII rifles, haven't been in contact for years.

People collect some strange stuff.

2 people where I work collect guitars, from their talk some of them are big $$$.
last edited: 3/15/05 8:43:00 AM”

“So you do support the right of dangerous criminals to own guns.”

“No.

I made an observation.

This thread has 739 posts and has been running about 3 years (First post 4/10/2002)

And finally we have a criminal who from the other data posted 'probably' is an NRA member.

There is also obviously additional information not available as I would imagine Judges are pretty nervous with guns given the recent events in Atlanta and Illinois, yet this judge ordered the siezed firearms returned.

Given the accused's lofty status as a Flower delivery person I doubt that he has political control of that town.

I guess whatever charges he was found guilty of did not include a felony as that would prohibit him from possessing firearms.
I smell a plea bargain here.”

“"In the hall corridor of a courtroom there would be no point in 6 people. In a narrow corridor you have the 1 in front and the 1 in back.
All the other could do is look on.

I think one person - armed - behind them with a non-lethal weapon because it is much more likely to be actually used would be a lot safer than you 6 goons in single file."

-manuka
12:24:50 PM

ATLANTA Mar 15, 2005 — Shackled and

surrounded by 19 officers

in a cinder-block jail room, the suspect in a rampage that left a judge and three others dead appeared before a magistrate Tuesday and was informed that authorities plan to charge him with murder.

Brian Nichols appeared before Cobb County Magistrate Frank Cox on the same rape charge that he was on trial for Friday when he escaped from another courthouse. Nichols spoke only once at the hearing, when Cox asked him if he had any questions.”

“close that barn door”

“

in a cinder-block jail room

Not quite the same as being led into a court room now is it?

When was the last time you saw Cinder-Block jail rooms with corridors ?

I think you two would flunk out on reading comprehension 101.”

“I think you two would flunk out on reading comprehension 101

If they did actually read for content, the facts would destroy their worldview. See the Halliburton thread for another example of their stupidity.”

“Sorry manuka. I was under the impression that a "jail room" was different than a "jail cell" and assumed that Nichols must have been escorted into there from his cell.”

“Well at least the font size has been reduced from screaming to normal.

And impressions do not warrant H1 "gotcha's".
I have been in several courtrooms and the grand entrance hall shown as Michael Jackson arrives for trial, or the State Prosecutor orates from, is not quite the narrow little halls where those remanded in custody are brought through.

You only made an ass of yourself with the font.”

“Not looking to argue the point, Manuka. But, I have seen much different type buildings here in New York. The narrow corridors are in your experience, i am sure. But, hardly a template for all situations.

We return to our regularly scheduled program...”

“"As the fuego burns," starring Betty Davis, Randolph Scott, and Slim Pickins.

But first, this word from our sponsor: Do you have thinning hair?”

“(CNN) -- A student on Monday killed two of his grandparents, then went on a shooting rampage at his Minnesota high school, killing five people and wounding as many as 15 others before killing himself, officials said.

FBI Special Agent Paul McCabe told reporters the dead include a female teacher, a male security officer and four students at Red Lake High School, about 240 miles north of the Twin Cities.

"We believe that one of those students is the shooter," McCabe said.

The slain students were shot in one room, he said, adding that 14 to 15 other students were wounded.

"Apparently, he walked down the hallway shooting and then he entered a classroom, he shot several students and a teacher, then himself," said Roman Stately, with the Red Lake Fire Department, who arrived at the high school moments after the shootings.

Authorities discovered about an hour later that the boy had shot and killed his grandmother and grandfather, a veteran of the police force, Stately told KARE-TV.

Stately said the boy used his grandfather's police-issued weapon in the school rampage.


http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/03/21/school.shooting/index.html”

“Almost as bad as Columbine, with more twists but got limited coverage on this evening's national news.

Maybe, the overcoverage will come the next several days.
last edited: 3/21/05 9:51:56 PM”