Another responsible NRA member

“So it was not the fault of the NRA, and I doubt that the kid was a member.

It was the fault of the Police who issued the weapon.

USA, you need a new thread

"Another Responsible Police Officer"

or is the NRA link that a lot of patrolmen ARE members of the NRA, it is only the Police Chiefs who do not have to go down the dark alleys, or pull over vehicles at night who are gun control advocates.”

“The anti gun nuts were kinda slow on this one. ;-)”

“....and the gun nuts are on it like stank on shlt.”

“yes stovey - thos "antigun nuts are so evil to want to try to prevent these sort of things.

Manuka, the whole NRA link is not about the boy being a member, but the way the NRA campaigns for fewer restrictions on guns. How many school shootings do there have to be for some people to realize there's a problem?”

“Not that it shouldn't get attention and coverage, but it happened on an Indian Reservation rather than an upper-class, white suburb.

Either that, or we're just getting used to it.”

“How many school shootings do there have to be for some people to realize there's a problem?”
y2
12:37:58 PM
3/22/05
ignore this user

The real problem is with society and not the guns themselves. It’s easier to place blame on guns and create laws that restrict there use, than it is to combat the real problem, such as what went wrong that made this kid find the need to kill his grandfather and fellow classmates?”

“Y2 is British, who still have a Monarchy as their form of Government.

Some people are born with the right to arm themselves, peasants are not permitted to have weapons unless temporarily in the service of their Master.

Y2 probably also believes in siegneural rights to the young women in the domain also.
But Y2 probably thinks his rightful place is with the lords too, not the peasants.

In feudal Japan people below the Samuarai class were executed on the spot if they had a weapon.

It was such a peaceful idyllic time to be a peasant. I mean what young girl didn't want to be looked on as a sperm spittoon for her lord.”

“Manuka ;op My campaign for ruturning to crown control is gaining support.”

“Y2 is British

Well now that explains a whole lot!”

“Duh, the shooter got his guns from Grampa Cop.
Gun control wouldn't have helped here.
The Cops are always gonna have guns.”

“USA - According to press reports, Jeff Weise was not an NRA member. He was however, a Republican.”

“Oryx, ya need to slap the Vileman with your law again, LOL!”

““USA - According to press reports, Jeff Weise was not an NRA member. He was however, a Republican.”
vioLIN
1:51:05 PM
3/22/05
ignore this user

That had to have been the biggest load of BS I've ever seen Violin post.”

“lumber, you haven't been reading the Vileman very long, have you? LOL”

““lumber, you haven't been reading the Vileman very long, have you? LOL”
StoveStomper
2:07:14 PM
3/22/05
ignore this user

I normally avoid the Fuego threads. I do have to admit, I fell for the bait.”

““Y2 is British

Well now that explains a whole lot!”
Oryx
12:23:22 PM
3/22/05

"Oryx was so delicate. Filigree, he would think, picturing her bones inside her small body. She had a triangular face - big eyes, a small jaw - a Hymenoptera face, a mantid face, the face of a Siamese cat. Skin of the palest yellow, smooth and translucent, like old, expensive porcelain. Looking at her, you knew that a woman of such beauty, slightness, and one-time poverty must have led a difficult life, but that this life would not have consisted in scrubbing floors."

from Oryx And Crake
Margaret Atwood”

“Oh holy cow! I've got a chick name! The shame!!!!”

“Ha ha !!

No need to tell you to "lighten up, dude", you're there!”

“Hey, I think this is the first debate on Trail Talk that I've lost! Congrats MarkO!”

“Sorry. Honest mistake there lumberzac. I'm sure you can understand my confusion.”

“You are way too serious, my friend!!!

Since when did you lose?”

“

Prey creatures”

“Aw shucks!
That's much cooler than the Oryx I found!

I was shelving books and there it was in my hand.”

“Well he wants to be known as a deer (dear ??)

At least 50% ARE female

You might be on the right track there MarkO
(MarkO on the "right" Moohahahah)”

“Yeah well, I thought maybe I could hobble that guy in some way!!

He's a menace!!!!

Hoohoohahahahahaha!!!”

“http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?c_id=2&ObjectID=10116775

There have also been worse school shootings outside of the US:

March 13, 1996:
A man fatally shoots 16 students and their teacher in Dunblane, Scotland.

April 26, 2002:
An expelled student kills 13 teachers, two students, a policeman and himself in Erfurt, Germany.


Oh No! aren't these places in Europe that does not have the NRA sponsored gun culture of the US ?”

“http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?c_id=2&ObjectID=10116544

22.03.05


SYDNEY - A mother shot her husband and two young children dead before turning the gun on herself in the New South Wales Hunter Valley, police believe.

Relatives found the bodies of Sally Elizabeth Winter and Steven Anthony Winter, both 32, along with their 4-year-old son Jake, and daughter Casey Rose, 3, at their home at Oakhampton Heights, near Maitland, on Sunday.

Lower Hunter Area Commander Superintendent Charles Haggett yesterday said police believed Sally Winter killed the family.

"At this early stage in the investigation, police are treating the incident as a murder-suicide," Haggett told reporters.

"It appears Sally Winter has used the firearm, resulting in the death of her husband and the two children, before turning the firearm on herself, resulting in her death."

He said the weapon, registered to Steven Winter, was found with Sally Winter’s body, leading police to conclude she had done the killings.....

______________________________

Australia where they had registration followed by confiscation.

...and no NRA”

“The gun used in this incident was taken from a police officer. The Left continues to promote their fanatical agenda for everyone to enjoy.

The left is claiming the Republican party is full of new conservatives (neocons). The reality is that the Democratic Party continues to shift to the left at warp speed. The Democrats are running off all the moderates.”

“The reality is that the Democratic Party continues to shift to the left at warp speed. The Democrats are running off all the moderates.

Never have I seen truer words spoken in this forum. Well done, bbw.”

“DETROIT, March 26 /PRNewswire/ -- Valerie J. Goddard, ATF Special Agent in Charge of the Detroit Field Division, announced today that a violent militiaman from Northwest Michigan was sentenced in federal court late yesterday in Grand Rapids, Michigan, for unlawfully possessing machineguns.

Norman David Somerville, a 44-year-old resident of Mesick, Michigan, was sentenced to 80 months in prison and a $2,000 fine for possessing and distributing some 13 machine guns. According to the ATF and Michigan State Police Somerville was growing marijuana and stockpiling a .50-caliber anti-aircraft gun, machine guns, explosive powder, bomb-making materials, automatic assault weapons and tens of thousands of ammunition rounds on his 40-acre compound in Wexford County, near Traverse City. According to his close associates, Somerville was filled with rage and plotting to ambush people.

"Somerville intended to kill Michigan State Police officers and had the machine guns and ammunition to do so," said Goddard.

"Somerville is a psychologically deranged man who was armed to the teeth, filled with hate, high on dope and had his finger on the trigger," said Assistant U.S. Attorney Lloyd K. Meyer in asking for the maximum punishment of 10 years in prison. "He's a ticking time bomb."

continued...
last edited: 3/27/05 6:50:59 PM”

“An excellent example of what cannabis can do to a person.”

“oh please prosecutor, IMO it would take more than pot to get him like that.”

“1. Some users can get bad effects from marijuana. They may suffer sudden feelings of anxiety and have paranoid thoughts.

2. The short-term effects of marijuana include:
problems with memory and learning ,distorted perception (sights, sounds, time, touch), trouble with thinking and problem solving, loss of motor coordination.

3. Findings so far show that regular use of marijuana or THC may play a role in some kinds of cancer and in problems with the respiratory and immune systems.

4. Marijuana has serious harmful effects on the skills required to drive safely: alertness, the ability to concentrate, coordination, and the ability to react quickly. Marijuana use can make it difficult to judge distances and react to signals and sounds on the road. Marijuana may play a role in car accidents. In one study conducted in Memphis, TN, researchers found that, of 150 reckless drivers who were tested for drugs at the arrest scene, 33 percent tested positive for marijuana.

5. Studies in children born to mothers who used marijuana have shown increased behavioral problems during infancy and preschool years. In school, these children are more likely to have problems with decision making, memory, and the ability to remain attentive.

6. Studies show that when people have smoked large amounts of marijuana for years, the drug takes its toll on mental functions. Heavy or daily use of marijuana affects the parts of the brain that control memory, attention, and learning.

7. Students who smoke marijuana get lower grades and are less likely to graduate from high school, compared with their non-smoking peers. Several studies associate workers’ marijuana smoking with increased absences, tardiness, accidents, workers’ compensation claims, and job turnover. A study of municipal workers found that those who used marijuana on or off the job reported more “withdrawal behaviors”—such as leaving work without permission, daydreaming, spending work time on personal matters, and shirking tasks—that adversely affect productivity and morale.”

“nice copy and paste but there was a lot more going on with him than the amount of pot he smoked.”

“Your right Ewker. The article said they found marijuana, but marijuana frequently leads to other dangerous substances.”

“I know people who have smoked pot and that was all they did. I also know people who really got caught up in it and did a lot harder drugs.
I can also point you to people who let alcohol control their lives.

Seems were getting off topic, another thread maybe.

Main thing is a person who is as the article states is a psychologically deranged man was caught before he could do harm to others.”

“Those folks up there don't grow it to smoke it - they grow it to sell to finance their operations.
Most ppl know that potheads generally aren't violent.”

“ST. LOUIS -- A man dressed like an old-time pioneer and parked along Interstate 70 puzzled deputies with his claim that he was headed to South Dakota with Bibles and "supplies" for American Indian children.

Then the deputies noticed a smell of marijuana as the man argued with them, and they searched his vehicle and found a staggering arsenal, including loaded pistols and an assault rifle with a 30-round clip and a bullet in the chamber.

A double-edged knife with an 8-inch blade was in the sun visor above the man's head, and a loaded two-shot Colt Derringer pistol was in his pocket, authorities say. Searchers also seized about 400 rounds of ammunition.

"He said it was all self-protection and that it's dangerous out west," St. Charles Sheriff's Lt. Craig McGuire said of Thursday's traffic stop that authorities said also uncovered an array of drugs. "It's kind of bizarre, but it's all also kind of sobering."

The man was shirtless with military-style boots, cargo pants and an American Indian vest. "I've heard him described as looking like a frontiersman or pioneer; that's what he was dressed as," McGuire said.

The loaded firearms were within easy reach in nearly every direction, McGuire said. "The placement indicates to us that he was well-prepared to handle any type of confrontation or opposition," he said.

continued...”

“30-round clip

Idiot anti-gun reporters...”

“Another Irresponsible Cut and Paste...”

“TOWER, Minnesota (AP) -- A 4-year-old boy was fatally wounded when he wandered behind a paper target while family and friends were practicing shooting, authorities said.

Evan Davis Klassen, of Chisago City, was shot around 1:45 p.m. Sunday at Lake Vermilion, where a group of about a dozen people had gathered for the Memorial Day weekend.

"They thought they had the kids under control," said Sgt. James McKenzie of the St. Louis County Sheriff's Department.

While the paper target didn't completely obscure the child, he was wearing camouflage pants that made him difficult to see against the foliage, McKenzie said.

A 40-year-old man fired a handgun about 30 feet through the target and into the boy, he said.

McKenzie called the shooting as "a pretty straightforward accident" and said no charges were likely to be filed. The man's name and relationship with the boy were not released.

After the shooting, people rushed the boy to a nearby lodge. Emergency medical workers arrived, but there was nothing they could do, McKenzie said.


http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/05/30/boy.killled.ap/index.html

"pretty straightforward accident"??? Seems more like typical irresponsible behavior from gun owners to take small children to where guns are being fired.
last edited: 5/30/05 11:30:26 AM”

“And we are sure the shooter was an NRA member. This was an accident, plain and simple. How many 4 year olds are going to be in car accidents this holiday weekend? I am not an advocate of the NRA, nor am I a member, but it is silly to blame an unfortunate accident on all NRA members due to the actions of one person target practicing.”

“While doing a little research I found that in the year 2000, according to the CDCP, 776 people were killed from accidental firearms discharges. In that same year 43,354 people were killed in car accidents. BAN CARS!!! IT' S ALL GEAORGE BUSH'S FAULT!!!!!”

“I agree with SB that it is unfair to assume that the shooter was in the NRA. It is eveb more unfair to say that this is typical NRA behavior: the NRA have been huge advocates of gun safety. Now, I totally disagree with the NRA on most issues - but I try to hit them where they are, not where they ain't.

SB's fault misses two important points. First, he only mentions accidental gun deaths. Total gun related deaths are over 30,000/year and that doesn't include all the non-lethal criminal use of guns.

Second, the comparison of cars and guns is more interesting than SB suggests. There are too many legitimate uses for cars to consider banning them - the logical choice then is a system of liscening, registering, qualifying and identifying both cars and drivers. That's what we do. Might make sense for guns.”

“"This was an accident, plain and simple. How many 4 year olds are going to be in car accidents this holiday weekend?" -squirrelbait

It was an accident waiting to happen. If you consider taking a four year old to a shooting range the equivalent to driving a car, then you got serious issues.”

“Total gun related deaths are over 30,000/year and that doesn't include all the non-lethal criminal use of guns.

Cite your source for the above information.

"...the logical choice then is a system of liscening, registering, qualifying and identifying both cars and drivers. That's what we do. Might make sense for guns.”

Licensing cars and drivers is an option of the state because the act of driving is previlege given by the state. Gun ownership is an inalienable right granted by the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution. Requiring a person to have a license to own a gun is the same thing as requiring a person to pay a poll tax to vote.

In all likelihood these people were not members of the NRA. Every American Rifleman magazine I receive from the NRA lists numerous gun safety training courses given and/or sponsored by the NRA. Gun safety is one of the things they stress the most.

The thing is you can't stop the mentally challenged from voting for lying war mongering politicians or owning guns. They come with our democracy. Sh*t is gonna happen no matter how much the hand wringing anti-gun crowd whines or I tell you not to vote for Repubs or Demos.
last edited: 5/30/05 10:21:47 PM”

“Studies show that more guns means less crime. More people are saved by firearms in self defense than are killed in tragic firearm accidents. Take away guns, no firearms accidents, but murders go up more than the accidental deaths.”

“Sol: The Centers for Disease Control keeps statistics on death by means. You can run your own analysis on their site. For example, all intents and firearms as the cause and 2002 for the year at their site: http://webapp.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_sy.html

And Sol, I agreed with you on how safety concious the NRA is. I won't rehash debates over the second amendment. I wasn't arguing about what would pass constitutional muster, only about what would be good public policy.

Prosecutor: Your statistical claim has been debated back and forth, but - assuming you are right - it is an argument against banning guns, not against registration.”

“Arguing on the Internet:
http://www.thebackpacker.com/pictures/users/blind_willie_mctell/ulm7j7yw/phe6yzx5di.jpg

JK....

I have to agree with SB. Great points.”

“Pedxing, good site on your link. But you have to remember guns are used defensively to prevent violent crime hundred more times than they are used to kill.

Studies show registration does not reduce crime at all. The Canadian registration scheme has been a huge flop.”