Another responsible NRA member

“Whatever, Nigal...”

“Guess what! I've been walking streets for 50 years! So have all my friends. Hey, get this! We've been unarmed all the freakin' time! Ain't that a kick in the ass? And wowie f_cking zowie! Here's another truth! We're alll still walking those streets, and we're all unscathed!

Holy sh_t balls, batman!!!!”
Treebeard
2:06:19 PM
5/31/05

Tree, I have never had a fire in my house, I have never had a major injury, so I guess that I have been pretty stupid (in your view) to have wasted money on insurance all those years. I have never needed it.

You in never being attacked are probably careful when and where you travel, and you have also had a little luck, or to put it a better way you have not been unlucky.

Some people get unlucky, just once is enough.

Do you personally know any victims of a home invasion where the wife and 9 year old daughter were beaten and gang raped and the father forced to watch ?? That has never happened to me either, but has to people I know personally. Close enough, I will keep my insurance.”

“i don't really think we need to rehash them, considering I know where you guys are at on it and vice-versa.”
Treebeard
3:20:26 PM


imagine how quiet TT would be if we all only spoke our opinions once.”

“True, Sacco. I guess these guys really do want to rehash this stuff...”

“Didn't see your post above mine otherwise I wouldn't have posted it. I think you were a bit more fired up than I thought, which was not my intent.

I've never had anyone be able to show me that crime went up after CCWlaws were adopted. I have seen many examples of how crime went UP after stricter controles were put in place.”

“I used NYC as an example as to why i thought there may be more to it...


Mater of fact, the more stats I see people post here, the more contradictory this becomes.
last edited: 5/31/05 2:27:55 PM”

“i thought that good lighting (street lights)

was by far the most important factor of crime rates.

no, i don't have any stats handy i'm too lazy to look it up, but i know i've read it a few times and it makes a hell of a lot more sense to me.”

“I really would hate to go through my life as fearful as some people out there.
You wanna stop home invasions, well then secure your house better.

Purely from an informational point of view Manuka - this person you know, would a gun have helped him prevent this. He could have run around his house shooting at shadows. Or is there a chance he and his family could just have easily ended up shot?”

“Streets lamps were always there. But, the drastic reductions in our crime rate has been over the past 10 years or so...

I attribute it to Dinkins' "Safe City, Safe Streets" policy. It put more cops on the street and worked towards better police/community relations. Guiliani carried it over ( and took most of the credit for it), and the crime rate plummeted and hasn't risen to any significant degree at all. It was, and still is, an effective program...”

“still tree, i'll betcha the specific areas where more crimes continue to take place have poor lighting.”

“"I stated that we had one year with the new CCW laws and crime was down. Both are true. You do the math.”
Nigal
2:22:23 PM

Post hoc ergo propter hoc”

“Y2, a gun would have prevented it. Family had a dog which woke them, but the phone lines had been cut outside the house. It would have kept them outside and the sound of a shot would have enabled neighbors to call police.

And yes an air horn would also have woken the neighbors and may have detered the intruders, but the viciousness of the attack also means they may have broken in with the airhorn and hurt them in a shorter time.”

“you and your lighting sacco, fine, have your flamethrower, sit on a light pole with the pilot light lit for more lighting, I'll sign the petition. Besides you would be good to hike with cause flamethrowers will still light in the rain and that would help to get a fire going. I would be afraid to hike with you on the AT though cause you would probably use it to rid a shelter of mice or something.”

“I remember checking the numbers a couple of years ago at the FBI site... There were many more accidental deaths from gunfire than the much-touted self defense cases. Anybody know the current figures?

Sorry, Squirrel --- but (once again) before one may legally drive a car one must be licenced, donchaknow.”

“I would be afraid to hike with you on the AT though cause you would probably use it to rid a shelter of mice or something.”
squirrelbait
3:40:25 PM


and while all those other ATers are being robbed i would protect my belongings with my weapon of choice just as god intended.

LIVE FREE OR DIE!”

“Tilt, The FBI site only records defence cases where the gun was fired.

The general benefit appears to be a drop in crime because the victim might be armed.

Thus even if people have the option but chose not to use it, turn it into a lottery for the criminals. No one actually has to have a gun for crime to go down as long as some people might have a gun.

Read and interesting article about guard dogs in Australia a few years ago.
The article followed a prison survey that indicated that most burglars would simply select another house rather than one with a dog. They also suggested that most burglars checked a house, mostly during the day.
So suggested a "beware of the dog" sign on the gate, getting the biggest possible dog dish and dragging the dish behind the car for a few miles to get it really battered and partially hiding it under a bush, finally getting the biggest bone possible (thigh bone of a cow) and partially hiding it under another bush. Burglar would see sign and check for dog. No dog, but signs that a really huge dog that hid from sight. Response - pick another house.

Even in Treebeard's New York, the bad guys do have to worry about off duty police who are armed. The more a person looks like they could possibly be police, the less chance of an attack. Body language would probably play a role, the less confident the person appeared, the more likely to be targeted.”

“Sacco,

1. eat beans and franks, or get "bubble and squeak" recipe from Y2 and eat that. Singapore's Tiger beer would make a good accompaniment.
2. have lighter handy
3. moon selected target
4. flame away”

“Ya know, even though many are against it, I would have no problems getting a card saying I could own a gun. As long as I didn't have to list the guns I have I would pay the same amount for a gun license that I would my driver's license.”

““I really would hate to go through my life as fearful as some people out there.
You wanna stop home invasions, well then secure your house better."

I'd hate to go through life scared and locked up in my house like some people here. There's no fear in defence Y2. That stuff may fly in France but not here fella. LOL!”

“pedxing,
I went to the CDC site and did an inquiry for unintentional firearm injuries (not deaths) in the US for all races, all ages, and both sexes between the years 1999-2002.

The results were puzzling to me because the number of this type of injury is given as 3,164 per 100,000. Per their footnote population estimates were aggregated for multi-year reports to produce rates. The population was given as 1,133,529,958 for 1999-2002. Divide this population by 100,000 and you get 11,335.3. Multiply by 3,164 and you get a whopping 35,864,889 unintentional injuries by firearms over the 1999-2002 period or 8,966,222 per year! This is clearly wrong but I can't figure out what I did wrong. I haven't looked at the death numbers because I can't see the point right now until I figure out what is going wrong with the calcs. Someone check the numbers to double check me.

Y2,
For the record, are you a citizen of the United States?
last edited: 5/31/05 5:36:30 PM”

“go back and reread the data. That number 3164 was the total number of deaths for the given period (1999-2002) with the aggregated population of 1,133,529,958. That averages out to 791 gun deaths by accident per year over the four year period with an average population of roughly 283,382,500. This squares with their rate of 0.28-0.29 per 100,000.

Okay I've got my accident math fixed now let me go do the homicides.”

“I did some inquiries based on the usual demographics. All of the following are for homicides by firearms during 1999-2002. Crude Rate (CR)and Age-Adjusted Rate (AAR) per 100,000.

Both sexes,all ages, all races, including Hispanics.
aggregate population = 1,133,529,958
total deaths = 44,806 total
CR = 3.95
AAR = 3.90

Black males, all ages, non-Hispanic
aggregate population = 67,275,800
total deaths = 20,509
CR = 30.48
AAR = 28.10

Black males, ages 13-34, non-Hispanic
aggregate population = 23,752,439
total deaths = 15,872
CR = 66.82

White males, all ages, non-Hispanic
aggregate population = 387,361,046
total deaths = 8,397
CR = 2.17
AAR = 2.15

White males, ages 13-34, non-Hispanic
aggregate population = 113,307,940
total deaths = 3,801
CR= 3.35

Hispanic males, all ages, black and white
aggregate population = 74,546,675
total deaths = 7,281
CR = 9.77

Hispanic males, all ages, white
aggregate population = 69,421,573
total deaths = 7,092
CR = 10.22

Hispanic males, ages 13-34, white
aggregate population = 29,176,005
total deaths = 5.631
CR = 19.30

Hispanic males, ages 13-34, black
aggregate population = 1,202,291
total deaths = 120
CR = 9.98

Conclusion blacks males, ages 13-34, are getting killed by guns twenty (20) times the rate of while males in the same age bracket. This doesn't tell you who is doing the killing but I bet it's black on black and the rates for the white kids probably has a high percentage of black on white crime.

So are all you gun control advocates willing to just let the government take guns away from black males? Seems to me that would lower the crime rates and that's what you want isn't it? It would be the most bang for the buck. Then the next highest is the white Hispanics. Why not get them too? Just let the whites have guns. They're not getting killed and probably not killing many people at all.
last edited: 5/31/05 8:48:10 PM”

“good point, solitary hiker. gun control has its roots in racism. can't let those uppity negroes have guns, you know.

i love how owning a gun = "living in fear" to some people. it's simply an acknowledgement of reality.”

“Damn it Sol, stop muddying the water with facts and figures. We're all about hyberboli 'round here. :)”

““i love how every time this thread gets brought up people yell,"hey, don't blame the NRA for that"

and then those same people will post on a "liberals suck thread" when some idiot does/says something dumb.

and the same people who post articles on this thread will say, "hey, don't blame all liberals for that"”
sacco
10:59:43 AM
5/31/05


That is an interesting irony, Sacco. Nonetheless was one of those saying don't blame the NRA for this and I haven't done much liberal bashing (well, a little - but most of the conservatives here and probably most of the liberals think of me as one).”

“The more a person looks like they could possibly be police, the less chance of an attack. Body language would probably play a role, the less confident the person appeared, the more likely to be targeted.”
manuka

Manuka is right here. Appearing alert and self confident deters criminals in most cases. There are exceptions, of course, but victims are usually singled out because they look like victims - a bit nervous and scared. It's like predators singling out the weaker members of the herd.

Owning and even carrying a firearm does not guarantee one will not be victimized or killed. It does provide a potential means of self defense. But carrying for self defense means one has to be alert and ready for anything that happens. And likely quick on the draw as well.

And shooting at targets is one thing. Shooting at a person is quite another. Hesitate and you are dead.”

“I think the solution to all our problems is to require all Aryan white people to own, carry concealed, and practice monthly with firearms. No minorities should be allowed to own so much as a water pistol. Then and only then can crime be reduced in the USA. As a matter of fact, we could probably do away with all police forces in the country and I'm all for that.

signed,
AH
last edited: 6/01/05 6:11:02 PM”

“well you're just the exception, ped ;)”

“RIDGEFIELD, N.J. (AP) -- A day after police escorted a disoriented elderly woman to her home, they returned with a search warrant and found a massive cache of weapons and gunpowder.

Nearly 500 guns, including AK-47s and high-powered rifles, 500 pounds of gunpowder and 100,000 rounds of ammunition were taken Wednesday from the home of Elizabeth and Sherwin Raymond, both 82.

Sherwin Raymond, a former physician and known gun enthusiast, has twice spent time in prison: in the early 1970s for performing illegal abortions and later that decade for selling silencer-equipped submachine guns. Convicted felons are not permitted to own guns.

''People knew he was a (gun) collector, but no one suspected the magnitude of what was found,'' police Chief John Bogovich told The Record of Bergen County for Thursday's newspapers. ''This will be a monumental task to inventory.''

Police said they sought the warrant after bringing Elizabeth Raymond back to her home on Memorial Day and seeing the windows and doors open.

Police suspect many of weapons might have been bought at gun shows. Federal authorities are expected to investigate where they were purchased and whether they had ever been used in crimes.

continued...”

“sarbar in 30 years?”

“Sounds like my great uncles gunroom. He had close 300 different guns, many of them were flint locks from the Civil War.”

“LYNN -- It was the powdery white dust that gave it away, police said. Called to Jean Lally's apartment Sunday morning, when she could not wake her daughter, police noticed it on her daughter's chest.

They wondered if the dust had come from the ceiling, and sure enough, when they looked up, there it was, a hole in the plaster above them.

In what prosecutors are calling a bizarre murder, Kathryn R. Lally, 38, was shot dead while watching television on her mother's couch.

The bullet, they say, came through the floor of the apartment upstairs, where a person at what police called a marijuana-fueled party had discovered a Ruger semiautomatic pistol and fired it once into the floor.

''It's bizarre, but that's what happened," said Steve O'Connell, a spokesman for Essex District Attorney Jonathan Blodgett.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2005/06/28/shot_through_floor_kills_woman_downstairs/”

“OK, I give up V. Just what does this have to do with NRA membership?”

“Like you don't know.

phhht!”

“Relax.....Go build a swingset or something. You're going to drive yourself crazy worrying about getting shot by some pot smoking anarchist hippie dope fiend.

Think I'll roll a fat doobie, read the service manual for my fully automatic Barrett 50 cal sniper rifle, and send the NRA another $100. Is the US of A a great country or what?!!!”

“Just goes to show you that smoking marijuana is dangerous.”

“Guns don't kill people, Pot kills people. Oh, and it makes them fat too. Damn munchies...”

“LOL@prosecutor”

“LOL at prosecutor too!

It's just like in the movie Reefer Madness!”

“LOL@LOL”

“LOL@Sol!

(I think most of us agreed with "don't drink and carry" - I guess we can add: "don't get stoned and carry."

Guns don't mix any better with drugs/alcohol than cars do.”

“LOL @ nothing in particular, giggling uncontrollably at the patterns in the wallpaper, PMPROTF (Pissing my pants rolling on the floor)

HA

HA

HA

WHEW


pass the twinkies”

“what is this, laugh-in?”

“SNELLVILLE, Ga. — Earl Lazenby had delivered mail for years to the aging brown home with overgrown plants in the yard and a National Rifle Association sticker on the front door. The home's owner was always friendly, sometimes chatting with Lazenby at the grocery store in this Atlanta suburb.

But what Lazenby didn't know was that William Crutchfield was deep in debt and looking for a way out. Authorities say Crutchfield apparently watched with envy as Olympic bomber Eric Rudolph was headed to prison for life and aspired to the same fate — allowing him to live off the government while behind bars.

So he allegedly hatched a twisted plan to kill a federal employee.

Two weeks ago, Crutchfield walked down his driveway carrying a .380-caliber pistol and greeted his mail carrier at the curb. He then opened fire on Lazenby, drove to the police station in his Chevrolet Cavalier and told the secretary, "I just shot the letter carrier."

"He took his mail and then said, 'Hello.' And then just started shooting," Lazenby said from his hospital bed this week. "He just casually got in his car and drove away."

Lazenby, 52, was shot seven times, once in the arm and six times in the abdomen. A neighbor heard shots, came outside and called 911.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002382691_shot15.html


Typical republican profile: Gun-wielding crazy NRA member, terrorist-type, government-hating, no medical insurance due to republican policies.

Oh, one more republican trait: too greedy to sell his house to pay the bills.
last edited: 7/15/05 8:43:11 PM”

“I think I have nailed it.

USA is actually Senator Chuck Schumer.”

“Lazenby's wife, Colleen, said that survivalist gear was found in Crutchfield's home and that he apparently admired Rudolph.

"He saw that Eric Rudolph was being well taken care of after committing a federal crime, so he thought he'd just go ahead and commit one, and he'd be taken care of, with three meals a day and shelter," she said.

"If all he wanted to do was commit a federal crime, all he had to do was walk into a bank with an empty gun and point it at them and say, 'Give me your money.' And that's your federal crime, and no one gets hurt," Earl Lazenby said.



A couple more republican / NRA traits in that: hypocrite and stupid
last edited: 7/15/05 8:56:16 PM”

“Dang, I was wrong again.

USA is just insane.”

“Another republican / NRA tactic as shown by bacpac: attack others when you can't justify your own cause”

“My 'tactic' is honestly saying I don't know what you are talking about and nothing you have presented makes any sense.”

“Sorry, Chuck.”