Another responsible NRA member

“It does get curiouser and curiouser.


I wonder if the ATF, who has a history of being overzealous when it comes to their enforcement, is a being a little too "gun shy" here?”

“The liquor store and Racer's Cafe, two parts of the same business, are across the street.

After selling my last weapon to Valley Gun about six years ago I sashayed across the street for a few drafts at Racer's Cafe.

Weapons Abuse Reduction Committee???
This from a guy who can't account for hundreds of weapons.

Maybe he is also a member of Baltimore Thugs Committee For Gittin' Guns To The People.”

“MarkO, you sashayer, you.”

“Geez, I hope I spelled it correctly!

About 11 years ago I sold a revolver and a rifle to those guys and bought some power tools with the proceeds.

I told the guy at the store that I was beating my weapons into plow shares.

Sez he, "I'd like to see you defend your home with a plow share!"
(paranoid dipschidt!)

Hmmmmm.........so far there have been no savages assault my home.”

“Over the years he probable got rid of three or four gangsters and at least one middle eastern liquer store owner.”

“Let's not forget the Korean grocers who checked out thanks to Sandy's gun trading practices.”

“SHEPHERDSTOWN, West Virginia (AP) -- A father and his two sons died Saturday in an apparent murder-suicide at Shepherd University, authorities said.

Douglas W. Pennington, 49, shot sons Logan, 26, and Benjamin, 24, multiple times then shot himself once in the chest with a .38 caliber revolver on the Shepherd University campus, state police said. Both sons were identified as Shepherd students.

Police said the elder Pennington traveled to the campus to visit his sons, but authorities offered no reason for the shootings.

The gunfire occurred about 2 p.m. ET in a parking lot, near residence halls on the campus's west side. The Penningtons were pronounced dead at local medical facilities.”

“So what's the connectionbetween this incident and the NRA. Or are you one of those idiots that thinks that every thing that happens and involves a gun is the fault of the NRA (and of course Bush).”

“He was from West Virginny....heck if that ain't motive I don't know what is.”

“NEWRY, Maine (AP) -- A cook was charged Tuesday with shooting and dismembering the owner of a bed-and-breakfast and killing three other people in a grisly Labor Day weekend crime spree that shocked people across the Maine countryside.

State Police chief Col. Craig Poulin refused to discuss a motive for what he called the worst homicide case in Maine in 14 years.

Christian Nielsen, 31, told detectives that his four-day rampage began with an Arkansas man on Friday and continued two days later with the slaying of the owner of the Black Bear Bed & Breakfast where he was staying in Newry, according to state police. The daughter of the inn's owner was then killed along with a female friend when they arrived there unexpectedly Monday, authorities said.

"It's a crime of horrific proportions," Poulin said.

Nielsen was charged with four counts of murder and smiled as he left court after being ordered held without bail.


http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/09/05/cook.charged.ap/index.html

NRA member written all over him.”

“NORTH CHARLESTON, South Carolina (AP) -- Police arrested a man accused of slaying five people, including four children, who were found shot to death in a mobile home, authorities said Sunday.

Michael Simmons of North Charleston, South Carolina, was charged with five counts of murder and expected to appear for a bond hearing Sunday, said Spencer Pryor, spokesman for the North Charleston Police Department.

Charleston County Coroner Rae Wooten, who was performing autopsies on the victims Sunday, confirmed that all but one of the victims were children.

Officers discovered the bodies Saturday after responding to a call. All appeared to have been shot and no motive for the killings had been identified.

Monique Singleton, who lives across the street, said four children lived in the home and her children occasionally played with them.

"They were nice people; they seemed fine," she said.

(nice = NRA)”

“USA would have preferred a slow drowning in the bathtub.”

“That's a weird thing to say.”

“not if you consider the title of this thread”

“You are suggesting that U.S.A. has a preferred method of murder........sick.”

“USA is exploiting the tragic deaths of the children by making up the premise that the murderer was a "Another responsible NRA member".

The actual facts is that the NRA is for heavy penalties for persons committing violent crimes, and they do not condone murder. The NRA's advocacy for the passage of laws allowing citizens to carry concealed firearms has gotten all but two states to allow citizens to carry firearms. That has reduced violent crime.

The liberals on the other hand are soft on crime, and want lesser sentences, and to disarm honest citizens, all of which increase violent crime.”

“It's like starting a thread called "Another Planned Parenthood Abuser" and then posting news stories about rape victims.”

“Leftists will use any spurious propaganda means at their disposal to justify any illegality they feel is appropriate to control the behavior of others, such as defying the Constitution of the United States.


Death rates incomparable

MARTIN L. FACKLER
September 25. 2006 6:01AM

The Sun's Sept. 12 editorial, "The other atrocity," compares the number of gun deaths in the U.S., in 2003, with the number of deaths from the attacks of 9-11. These are not comparable.

All 2,973 of the deaths from the 9-11 attacks were premeditated intentional homicides. The comparison implies that all 30,136 of the 2003 gun deaths were also intentional homicides; thus comparable to the 9-11 deaths. The FBI Uniform Crime Report for 2003, however, reveals that two-thirds of the gun deaths (19,907) were suicides.

The editorial also failed to mention that criminals killed by the police, or by honest citizens in defense of their lives or the lives of others, were also included in the 30,136; as were unintentional gun deaths.

The number of 2003 gun deaths truly comparable to the 9-11 deaths was no more than one third of the 30,136. The spurious comparison also implies that gun violence in 2003 was of great or increasing concern. In The Gainesville Sun Oct. 18, 2005, article "Murder rate in U.S. hits 40-year low," however, we find that the murder rate in 2003 was the lowest since 1965, and we now know that it declined 3.3 percent more in 2004.

Murder rates in the United States do remain a problem in some of our large cities: Washington, D.C., is the prime example. It has the most stringent gun control laws in the country - and the highest murder rate. Prohibitive gun control disarms the honest citizen - and criminals obviously prefer unarmed prey.

This point is strongly supported by the steady decrease in violent crimes with firearms over the past decade concomitant with increasing numbers of firearms in the hands of U.S. citizens.

Florida enacted its nondiscretionary concealed-handgun right-to-carry law, in 1987. Other states followed suit, bringing the number of states currently permitting qualified citizens to carry concealed handguns to 40. That increasing numbers of law-abiding citizens carrying concealed handguns deters crime should come as no surprise. It is, in fact, what any unbiased rational analysis would predict.

Interestingly, as I was working on this response, Kimveer Gill shot 20 persons in Montreal. Those who remember the Canada of a decade ago will likely be shocked by this. The firearm literate will not be surprised. England, Canada, and Australia now have violent crime rates double that in the United States - partly due to our decreasing rate, but mostly because of the strict gun control laws adopted by these countries in the past decade.

Martin L. Fackler is a retired military trauma surgeon who lives in Gainesville.




Based upon its annual national crime victimization surveys, the Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) reported this month that in 2005 the nation's violent crime rate fell to the lowest point in the surveys' 32-year history, down 58% since 1993. For the survey's purposes, "violent crime" consists of rape, robbery, and aggravated and simple assaults.
BJS also found that the firearm-related violent crime rate, which had been 1.9 per 1,000 population in 2002 and 2003, and 1.4 in 2004, was 2.0 in 2005. Anti-gunners may try to characterize the 2004-2005 trend as evidence of a sharp upturn in gun crime. However, the oddly low 2004 figure may have been an aberration, the author of the report, Dr. Shannon M. Catalano, cautioned.
The BJS's findings, based upon telephone interviews with randomly selected respondents, are on track with the FBI's data on crimes reported to police. The FBI reports that between 1991-2004 the nation's violent crime rate declined 39% to a 30-year low and the murder rate declined 44% to a 39-year low, and that in 2005 violent crime may have risen slightly. Final FBI figures for 2005 will be published later this year.
The BJS and FBI reports are bad news for anti-gunners who mouth the "more guns, more crime" line whenever a gun control issue is being debated. Since 1991, the number of privately owned guns in the United States has risen by more than 70 million, to an all-time high.
last edited: 10/01/06 7:40:33 PM”

“LOL...amazing isn't it but the 2nd amendment right to bear arms is totally ignored by the lefties, but the non-exisitent voting right (its a priviledge twits) is bandied about like the holy law.”

“How, in a Democracy, does it make sense to have voting be a privilege?

I assume, of course, XL - that you were referring to the constitutional set-up which allowed the states to grant the privilege of voting. Ethically, I think it is a righ fundamental to democracy - even if the constitution does not grant it that status. Fortunately current legislation and Court precident treats it more like a right and prevents capricious allocation of the "privilege."

I think it is essential to Democracy for voting to be a right - and hope it one day gets that full constitutional status.
last edited: 10/01/06 8:33:15 PM”

“LOL>..I think USA prefers the old tried and true method of shoving a needle into the back of the head suck out the brains and the chop the child up (LOL)....Sorry to get you all hot and bothered USA”

“Not only ignored, XL, but consciously defied!

San Francastro tried to outlaw all guns within city limits. Overturned in court.

Ray Nagin and his chief of police confiscated guns from legal owners (hence recent firearm legislation to spell out our Constitution for the lefties) after Katrina. That litigation is still in process.

“This week, in a landmark victory for NRA and law-abiding gun owners, Judge Carl J. Barbier of the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Louisiana denied the City of New Orleans' motion to dismiss NRA's lawsuit against the city. Further, Judge Barbier held that the Second Amendment does apply to law-abiding residents in the State of Louisiana and the City of New Orleans. Incredibly, the City of New Orleans persisted in desperately clinging to its anti-gun agenda by contemptuously arguing just the opposite--that the Second Amendment does not apply to residents in the State of Louisiana and the City of New Orleans.
NRA first filed suit after Hurricane Katrina, when firearms were confiscated from law-abiding New Orleans residents. Former New Orleans Police Chief Eddie Compass issued orders to confiscate firearms from all citizens. With that one order, the means of self-protection that innocent victims had during a time of widespread civil disorder was stripped away.
NRA filed suit in federal court and won a preliminary injunction ending these illegal gun confiscations. After the City of New Orleans failed to comply with the court's ruling and falsely claimed that the gun confiscations never occurred, NRA filed a motion for contempt that included an order directing all seized firearms be returned to their rightful owners.
After strenuously denying the illegal confiscations for months, on March 15, 2006, Mayor Nagin and the New Orleans Police Department (NOPD) finally conceded in federal court that the seized firearms were stored in two trailers. The city then agreed in court to a process by which law-abiding citizens would be able to file a claim to receive their confiscated firearms. However, few firearms were returned because the NOPD never notified gun owners how to claim their guns, and turned many away citing impossible standards for proof of ownership.
Today's ruling sets the stage for a continued legal fight in which NRA will be forced to expend additional resources to fight back the anti-gunner's blatant and shameful attempts to ignore the Second Amendment. The case will now move to discovery and pre-trial preparation.”




I had a conversation with a retired LEO the other day. Just like every single other LEO I know, he favors legal firearm ownership.

So here you’ve got a bunch of lefties, who have never shot a gun in defense of their fellow citizens, who think they know what’s best for the rest of us. And they feel it’s perfectly OK to pick and choose what parts of the Constitution they will obey.

Their philosophy is so pathetic. I’ve got a pretty decent imagination, and I can’t even imagine how deep is their denial. They never seem to let facts get in the way of their ideology.

I used to belong to the ACLU, but they’ve been hijacked by left-wing ideologues. How many Second Amendment cases have they taken up? I guess left-wingers feel only the left-wing has any civil liberties to protect.”

““LOL...amazing isn't it but the 2nd amendment right to bear arms is totally ignored by the lefties, but the non-exisitent voting right (its a priviledge twits) is bandied about like the holy law.”
XL400236
8:44:02 PM
10/01/06

“LOL>..I think USA prefers the old tried and true method of shoving a needle into the back of the head suck out the brains and the chop the child up (LOL)....Sorry to get you all hot and bothered USA”
XL400236
9:30:14 PM
10/01/06

What amazes me is how people have such different views on "freedom". Freedom to bear arms, Freedom of choice.

Thank God the United States Supreme Court is relatively consistent in this regard.”

“The Supreme Court may be consistent, but there are way too many lawyers feeding from the trough on an issue that is CLEARLY DEFINED in the Constitution.

But of course, to a lawyer, nothing is ever clearly defined in our legal system, is it? It's a great way to keep feeding at the public trough.”

“Arc lets remember the rule of Law Practice.

1. If the facts are against you, argue the law.

2. If the Law is against you, argue the facts.

3. If the facts and the Law are against you, just scream like hell.”

“Bad Karma to pick on lawyers”

“LOL.....Hey I just noticed the Guy in N Charleston was um...well lets just say I think USA started this thread to show his racist tendencies.”

““I think it is essential to Democracy for voting to be a right - and hope it one day gets that fill constitutional status.”

I think that in order have the maximum freedoms which will cause a nation to flourish you have to have both. The idle-eastern ‘democracies’ in such as Israel, Iraq and Afghanistan the people have the right to vote but that’s where their rights pretty much stop. Their rights to privacy, gun ownership or free speech are not guaranteed.”

“http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,216898,00.html

Florida Police Shot Suspected Cop Killer 68 Times
Sunday, October 01, 2006


LAKELAND, Fla. — Officers fired 110 rounds of ammunition at the man suspected of killing a sheriff's deputy, killing the suspect, according to an autopsy released by the sheriff's office.

Angilo Freeland — who was suspected of fatally shooting the deputy after being pulled over for speeding Thursday — was hit 68 times by the SWAT team members' shots, the examination released Saturday showed.

He also was suspected of wounding a deputy and killing a police dog.

Freeland's death ended a nearly 24-hour manhunt that forced schools to lock down and families to stay indoors as about 500 officers scoured the woods.

The wounded deputy had pulled Freeland over for speeding and became suspicious of his identification. The suspect got nervous and bolted into the woods, officials said.

Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd said he was not concerned by the number of shots fired.

"You have to understand, he had already shot and killed a deputy, he had already shot and killed a K-9 and he shot and injured another deputy," Judd said by phone Saturday. "Quite frankly, we weren't taking any chances."

Ten SWAT officers surrounded Freeland on Friday as he hid beneath brush and a fallen tree in a rural area. Authorities say he raised the gun belonging to the deputy he had killed, prompting nine officers to fire.

"I suspect the only reason 110 rounds was all that was fired was that's all the ammunition they had," Judd said. "We were not going to take any chance of him shooting back."

The SWAT officers who shot Freeland have been placed on paid administrative leave, standard procedure in all police shootings.

Also released Saturday were autopsy results for the deputy, Vernon Matthew Williams, 39, which showed he had been shot eight times. He was not wearing a protective vest, but shots hit him in his right leg and behind his right ear, among other places.

Diogi, his German shepherd police dog, was also killed. The dog had been shot once in the chest.

Authorities said deputy sheriff Doug Speirs, also 39, was fired at several times and shot once in the leg. A sergeant and an officer from the Lakeland Police Department were also fired at, authorities said.”

“That’s really not that rare. If you figure you have 10 officers with guns that hold at least 17 rounds each plus at least some are going to have machine guns that will hold upwards of 20-30 rounds, at a stand off and the need to shoot arises you’re going to have a lot of lead flying. It doesn’t take but a few seconds to empty a clip either. Hell he was lucky he didn’t get hit more than that.

British SAS operators have the SOP when clearing a building that if say the lead guy pops a bad guy he just keeps right on past him. The next guy in line comes passed bad guy he pops him in the head and moves on, third guy in line comes by, he pops him in the head and moves on.


The practices and procedures for dealing with brutal people is in itself brutal.”

“68/110 = 62%. Not bad for firing under pressure at a partially concealed target I suppose.”

“...I suspect the only reason 110 rounds was all that was fired was that's all the ammunition they had," Judd said....


I got a big kick out of that quote. LOL”

“What if they missed every shot?”

““What if they missed every shot?”

They should be fired. Get it? Fired? LOL!”

“Heck looks like a suicide to me...I mean he was participating in the illadvised sport of attempting to stop a bullet inflight with his body.

LOL...I think they ought to send his body to be cremated and mixed into random Road asphalt and the family should get a bill for the ammo expended. (LOL)”

“The latest incidents show how easy it is for crazies to get guns.

And these people would like to make it easier and activily fight and proposals to tackle the problem.”

“So what Y2 is saying is that gun control does not work.”

“PARADISE, Pennsylvania (CNN) -- A 32-year-old truck driver walked into a one-room Amish schoolhouse Monday, binding and shooting three girls execution-style before killing himself, police said.

Eight other girls were wounded in the attack, which police said appeared to be a revenge killing for an incident that occurred two decades ago.

"It would take a miracle for us to not lose more lives today," said Commissioner Jeffrey Miller of the Pennsylvania State Police, adding that the wounded were in critical condition -- two of them "very dire."
The attack was the nation's third deadly school shooting in a week.

The gunman, Charles Carl Roberts IV, was armed with three guns, a stun gun, two knives and a bag holding 600 rounds of ammunition, Miller said.

He was also carrying an assortment of tools and other items, including toilet paper, that led police to believe he was prepared for an extended standoff.

"It seems as though he wanted to attack young female victims, and this is close to his residence. That's the only reason we can figure that he went to the school," said Miller.

"It's a horrendous crime scene," he said.”

“That's sick USA! You would have rather he went in and slowly tore their skin off with tweasers? How do you live with yourself?”

“What the hell are you talkin' about, Moon?

Where did U.S.A. say anything like that?

That is a copy and paste from a news report.”

“You know USA...when the 42nd administration was in charge there were over 100,000 attempts by felons or other assorted scum to buy weapons. Yes it is a FELONY....guess how many Janet EL RENO took time from burning and destroying lives to investigate????..If you guess higher than O you will be wrong.”

“Janet Reno did what?

Do you have weird dreams about Reno?

Maybe you are thinking of Jean Reno.”

“Is that Tree???”

“Non-non, monsieur!!!!

Zat eez Jean Reno!!!”

“oh ... looks like Tree.”

“Yeah, a more tough and manly version of treebeard.”

“I think we need to switch the way we are handling this school shootings.

In the past couple of incidents it is now apparent the suspects were being set up. I mean when police got to them they were not able to offer resistence meaning that there should be some great concern that they were ever a danger to start with.
Maybe it was the overzealous police who pushed the killings. Maybe instead we could have had the local, State, Federal and United Nations Governments issue a strong declaration that they should cease and desist. Then we would embargo the schools and wait. Offer maybe a food for school supplies trade. Heck if we worked long enough maybe we could have negotiated the release...say offer the guys one or two of the older girls a month in return for not killing any of the others. I mean after all as long as it wasn't OUR kid...who gives a rats rip. We could develop a "feelings" meeting where the guy would explain how he liked em young and the Democrats would allow him to be a congressman for 13 more years.

As it is I am certain we can show that the police knew about the guy and just set him up to take the fall.”

“You're a sick puppy, Fox.”

“Violin I just think we are seeing too many deaths from school violence...maybe if we can make a deal with these killers...you know let em shoot two or three kids...or maybe select (hey like the Movie "THE LOTTERY") some random hotties for the guys to ravage...maybe then the killers will stop being so mean.”