Another responsible NRA member

“I love my father's 9mm berretta Stove. Take one for a test drive to see how it feels.”

“berretta = smoooooooth”

“LOL....We were shooting at the range one night and I broke out the old Western 44mag. WHAT A HOOT>”

“SS, I have a glock in .45. Its light, responsinve and sweet to shoot. Very predictable patterns. Getting used the longer trigger pulled and safety took a few but I like it.

BTW, I think arming teachers is an assinine idea. The answer isnt arming more folks (which certainly is and ought to remain legal) but disarming th idiots. I dont want some armed yahoo teaching my kid in kdg. Things are not that bad. Sure we have had a rash of school schootings. What 10 killed in a few weeks. So we freak out and arm teachers??? stupid.

With the nuts shooting kids its less a gun issue than a mental health issue.”

“Birch I understand you intial opposition, when Texas passed the conceal carry law they had the usual OH MY GOD ITS THE WILD WEST crap.

A few weeks after the program took off an accountant in a honda bumped some S.H. on a motorcycle in rush hour. THe S.H. got off walked back to the car (BIG GUY) busts the window and began beating the driver. The driver drew his sidearm and BIG GUY becomes another toe tag in the morgue.

Sure the libbies went bananas....this is the wild west all over again was the standard whine. The best response was a detective with Dallas PD. He said, "Nah, what this means is if you are some huge S.H. you can't go punching anyone you want."”

“[yelling] EVERYBODY GANG UP ON THE FOREIGNER!!!

GET HIM!!!”

“Moon...you know that Foreigner is not one person....GREAT

Mick Jones, Jason Bonham, Kelly Hansen, Jeff Jacobs, Jeff Pilson and Thom Gimbel.

Just left the room, there goes the music.”

“Dude, you're playing head games with me.”

“They love our money but hate our freedoms. Is it a fear of the responsibility that comes with those freedoms? Freedom of flying without a socialist safety net?”

“How right you are, Y2.

The first step to recovery is admitting there’s a problem.

“…England, Canada, and Australia now have violent crime rates double that in the United States - partly due to our decreasing rate, but mostly because of the strict gun control laws adopted by these countries in the past decade…”




I get a big kick out of my hobby of closely monitoring the media. This article caught my eye:

Gunman

In the article we read various descriptions of the perpetrator of a crime. He is referred to, by his name, eleven times. He is described as a disgruntled man once, a milk truck driver once, a truck driver once, and (with help of a side-bar) as a gunman five times. It’s also interesting to note that this murderer is described as a gunman twice before being identified by name.


Then there was this article in the paper the next day:

Gunman-2

This murderer is referred to, by name, ten times. He is described as a killer once, a man once, and as a gunman five times. Interestingly, he is described as a gunman three times before they print his name.


Then I found this NYT article:

A 5th Student Dies After Amish School Executions



Then I found this NYT article:

Police Describe Gunmans Plan in School Siege




There was also a small article in the Nation & World segment of our paper. An “Armed” man was caught with a knife near Tony Blair’s residence. But I can’t find a description, in any news reports, of him being a Knifeman.

What about the thousands of people who kill others with their cars? Are they Carmen?

And what about those who kill people while driving on interstates? Are they Highwaymen?

If I strangle someone am I a Handyman?

And, of course, the 911 terrorists were Planesmen. Why were they never described that way in the papers?


Let us never forget that this person who happened to use a pistol in the commission of a crime is a GUNMAN. He’s not a murderer, assassin, slaughterer, executioner, killer (well, they mention killer once in four articles), perpetrator, criminal, felon, villain, lawbreaker, lunatic, sick, dysfunctional, or a disturbed individual. He is a GUNMAN. Let’s repeat that five times just to see how it sounds: GUNMAN… GUNMAN… GUNMAN… GUNMAN… GUNMAN.

WOW! That’s pretty descriptive isn’t it? I’ll bet this man had a gun.

But, of course, there is no correlation between this particular descriptive term and the ideological affiliation of the vast majority of journalists. We should ignore that a number of books, written by newsroom insiders, describe bias towards this particular issue in the newsroom.

It doesn’t mean that articles like this appearing over and over and over reflect any ideological propaganda. There is absolutely no correlation.

Just because my local NYT affiliate infringes on our second amendment rights by refusing to honor anyone’s legal right to advertise a pistol for sale in their newspaper we shouldn’t believe they hold any bias. And those who insist that the media let their personal bias influence their writing are just part of the “Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy.”
last edited: 10/04/06 4:08:52 PM”

“XL, I am far from against CCW's I think they should be legal in all states. I would get mine here but the law is so entirely restrictive and the process so bureaucratic that I will wait. I think suggesting arming teachers is assinine, not CCWs or the constitutionally gauranteed righty to possesion or ownership.

Classrooms are not the places for firearms. Our district has cops in the junior and senior high schools. They do the job of protection, NOT the teachers. Shoot with all the complaints about teachers and poor education I am amazed anyone would want them to take on the burden of personal protective services.I heard on the news today (prolly fox) that the odds of getting killed in a school is 1 in 2,000,000. Seems silly to arm teachers with those stats.”

“Nigal- I'm not becoming a citizen. Though I pay taxes here - stupidly thought there was something about taxation and representation in American history.

I think there needs to be some sort of look at the problem, the solution doesn't necessarily involve any tighter gun controls, but to argue there's no problem is bs.
Like I've said before, guns are a part of America, and always will be - there are benefits to this and there are costs. I would say the number of spree killings is a cost. I don't want to see guns 'outlawed'.

Birch - that's fine, but how many kids are there in American schools, 80 million, 100 million?

Arclite - your stats are BS because they revolve around assualt, the lowest form of violence which may involve pushing someone. Other countries include these 'assaults' the most common form of violent crime in their stats, the FBI stats that you are using don't.
Therefore your evidence doesn't stand up to the most basic intellectual evaluation, which I thought was supposed to be your strong point.

“…England, Canada, and Australia now have violent crime rates double that in the United States - partly due to our decreasing rate, but mostly because of the strict gun control laws adopted by these countries in the past decade…” - that's so wide of the mark it's funny.

I think that guns have major effects on certain crimes, they reduce home invasions for a start - just the thought that a homowner may have a gun is a big deterrant - this is a benefit.

But it does lead to more murders - this is a cost.

If you think this a fair tradeoff then fine - but at least accept there is some downside to the huge amount of guns that are in circulation due to the lax gun laws over many many years.
last edited: 10/04/06 4:42:11 PM”

“Thanks birch.
I'll take a good look at the Glock 45!”

“Let us never forget that this person who happened to use a pistol in the commission of a crime is a GUNMAN. He’s not a murderer, assassin, slaughterer, executioner, killer (well, they mention killer once in four articles), perpetrator, criminal, felon, villain, lawbreaker, lunatic, sick, dysfunctional, or a disturbed individual. He is a GUNMAN. Let’s repeat that five times just to see how it sounds: GUNMAN… GUNMAN… GUNMAN… GUNMAN… GUNMAN. - your paranoia is wonderful Arclite - Gunman is used her to portray more accurately the scene which took place - in that a man held these young girls hostage, by pointing a gun at them, then pointed a gun at their heads and shot them, execution style. By using the term gunman it points the reader to what ACTUALLY happened.
You need to seek professional help?”

“I've also seen the term 'knifeman' used in many news stories.

Driver perhaps instead of carman.

If you strangle someone then you're a strangler - ever heard of the "Boston Strangler"? Maybe the stories involving him refered to the strangler more than once?”

“Y2, you are as funny as ever. You point out my intelligence and then word your posts as if I am too stupid to understand your concepts. You must have a very high opinion of your intellectual abilities…

Y2-cayote, SUPERGENIUS!!!




You’re easy to peg for a couple of reasons:

Your arguments lack logic. And you lack the desire to acquire the tools for logical thinking.

You don’t use the scientific method to examine your beliefs. And you lack the desire to apply the scientific method to your positions.

All this starts with an admission that we make mistakes. You ignore any attempt to point out your flawed logic or lack of information: “Nothing to see here, move along.” Here is where it gets harder: You appear to lack the courage for a thorough self-examination of your weaknesses. You certainly lack the courage to admit your mistakes.

In your positional arguments, you flail around obsessing over the mistakes of those whose ideas do not agree with your own, while defending and rationalizing the mistakes of those who hold philosophical beliefs that are similar to yours.




I bow to your superior knowledge of the facts, Y2. You’ve proven so adept at facts in the past I can hardly contain my laughter.

And if you’re going to give advice about recognizing a problem, you should learn to follow it. Hypocrisy is an awful thing. But you wear it so well.”

“Hey arc!
Check out the NO, Democrats aren't out of touch at all thread.
You'll get a kick out of it.”

“All you have to do, stove, is read some posts by Y2 to know that's a no-brainer, but I'm on my way over there.”

“Y2 is nothing more than another name caller.
He and Bubba Bear are about in the same class.”

“In 1997 in Pearl, Mississippi an assistant principal retrieved his gun from his car and physically immobilized the gunman who was killing students, saving many students lives.

Criminals target schools because the law prohibits firearms on school property. In the United States, criminals know that schools are one of the few places to go where the victims are relatively helpless. Ever read about a spree of multiple-victim killers going to a police station?

Professor John Lott while at the University of Chicago spent his career there analysing all the data for all 3,054 counties in the United States during 18 years from 1977 to 1994 on the effect of gun laws on crime rates. He was asked the following question:

"Question: But how about children? In March of this year [1998] four children and a teacher were killed by two school boys in Jonesboro, Arkansas. Won't tragedies like this increase if more people are allowed to carry guns? Shouldn't this be taken into consideration before making gun ownership laws more lenient?

Lott: The horrific shooting in Arkansas occurred in one of the few places where having guns was already illegal. These laws risk creating situations in which the good guys cannot defend themselves from the bad ones. I have studied multiple victim public shootings in the United States from 1977 to 1995. These were incidents in which at least two or more people were killed and or injured in a public place; in order to focus on the type of shooting seen in Arkansas, shootings that were the byproduct of another crime, such as robbery, were excluded. The effect of "shall-issue" laws on these crimes has been dramatic. When states passed these laws, the number of multiple-victim shootings declined by 84 percent. Deaths from these shootings plummeted on average by 90 percent, and injuries by 82 percent.

For other types of crimes, I find that both children as well as adults are protected when law-abiding adults are allowed to carry concealed handguns"”

““Nigal- I'm not becoming a citizen. Though I pay taxes here - stupidly thought there was something about taxation and representation in American history."

Let me get this straight. You pay taxes but you aren't able to cast your socialist vote? Good gawd man! It's the best of both worlds!”

“LOL>...shows intelligence he knows he is significantly safer here than in Jolly Old England”

“That's too funny, Nigal!


Nice info, prosecutor, but as a matter of fact I have. The story of a guy who tried to rob a cop convention made the Darwin Awards one year. It was pretty funny.

The same logic applies to places like Washington DC. Highest murder rate, strictest gun control. When Florida first tried to pass its “castle doctrine” laws, the lefties were up in arms about the blood bath that was to follow. Lower crime rates have followed. Florida has billboards along I-75 advertising the fact that our citizens are armed and so less vulnerable to would-be criminals.

Facts don’t seem to bother some people. And, on this issue, it’s usually the people who have never taken the responsibility to defend others with their lives.
last edited: 10/04/06 7:58:12 PM”

“SS, glock has a sub-compact 45 for concealed carry. It has a 6rd mag I belive but a 2 rd mag extension can be added. I have 2rd ext on all my mags, they fit well. The ext make the pistol fit better in larger hands. Keeps the pinky from sliding under. If I get my CCW that'll be my first choice. My 21 is a touch big for concealment LOL.

I carried a beretta 92f for some time. I hated that thing, bulky and heavy for the size, didnt shoot to well either.I think an exposed barrel/open slide is a friggin maintanence nightmare. A debris magnet. I cannot to this day see why Uncle Sam opted for such a POS.

Birch - that's fine, but how many kids are there in American schools, 80 million, 100 million?

Y2, those still arent bad stats. Of ever 10,000 swimming pools owned, one child will drown. If you want to arm teachers thats cool, please do it where you live not in my town.”

“What is so funny (and sad) about Y2’s post is his philosophical outlook.

In saying, “By using the term gunman it points the reader to what ACTUALLY happened” Y2 reveals an underlying philosophical outlook.

Is this a story about guns, or is it a story about a horrible criminal act of murder? By ignoring all of the various words that can be used to describe Charles Roberts, Y2 shows how he (and many journalists) feels.

By describing Charles Roberts as a gunman, the focus of the story becomes about a man with a gun who happened to commit murder.

If I were writing the story, I would describe Charles Roberts as a murderer. This puts the emphasis where it belongs: This was a murderer who happened to use a gun.

But then, I believe that “what ACTUALLY happened” was murder, not using a gun to commit the crime.


I’m afraid that people such as Y2 are clueless about this distinction and don’t seem to be able to help themselves. I don’t hold out much hope for them until they realize that this is the elephant in the living room.”

“It's about the guns.

FOREST HILL, Texas (AP) -- A nearly 14-hour standoff between police and a man accused of shooting three people and taking a young boy hostage ended at dawn Thursday with the boy safe and the suspect in custody.

Police in the Fort Worth suburb of Forest Hill arrested Joe Dixon, 57, on a charge of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, Lt. Chris Hebert said.”

“Thats Right USA...and if we take cars from people no body else will die in auto crashes.”

“The purpose of automobiles is not to kill and injure.

The same goes for banana peels, but accidents can and will happen.

Should we outlaw banana peels?
last edited: 10/05/06 9:03:14 AM”

“British doctors are trying to ban knives from Britain because of knife attacks.”

“I have the Glock 30, which is between the 21 and 36. The 36 is the small slimline model that holds six rounds. The 30 holds 10 rounds and one in the chamber if you wish.

The 30 is significantly smaller than the 21, but not the greatest for concealed carry unless you holster it in a squarish belt pouch (of which there are many on the market).

My 30 shoots true with very little recoil. It's easy to handle, and frankly better to handle than the small 9 mm job I also have.

Many police departments that went with the 9 mm have since moved up to a 10 mm, .40, or .45 because of the better knock-down power.

I have no idea why the military stuck with the 9 mm.”

“Guns serve many purposes. Self defense, hunting, sport, and yes killing. A car can serve many purposes. Transportation, hauling, and if someone wanted to killing. Same with knives, rope, sticks, stones, and any object you can pick up with your hands. In fact you don't even need an object just your hands can do the job.”

“Ah flasher, that’s just the thing though. The anti-constitutionalists try and shift the argument to forcing us to justify our reasons for owning a gun. That is a straw man because we don’t have to justify ownership or prove a gun’s purpose to ANYONE.

Must protesters give justification for marching? No.

Must a voter tell anyone exactly why they feel they are voting or how they are voting? No.

Must a women justify her abortion? No.

Must a law abiding citizen justify why their house should not be searched or have their property seized? No.

And neither do we have to justify our rights as gun owners.”

“My point was that I can turn anything into something to kill someone. I can even turn nothing into means of killing someone. And its all gay in my mind. Let people own guns and if they want to register for it let them carry them as well.

Funny thing is some people think others are crazy for suggesting the ideas teachers be allowed to carry guns. Well it can't be that crazy I saw it on a news article on MSN this morning.

No don't aske me for a link because I don't feel like finding it.”

“Can I get a link?























LOL!”

“Thats it I'm pushing this over to another page just to make ya look”

“did I make you look”

“http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15142930/

Ok here's the link”

“Marko, the purpose of your anus is to expel feces. Living around feces is bad for our health (at least those who survived the Black Plague would say so). Are you saying we should ban anuses?


Or are you saying we should ban anuses because homosexuals use them for an unintended purpose?”

“lol arc that was funny”

“LOL....since all criminals through history have been somebody's child...I say outlaw children”

“http://www.tylerpaper.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=17304896&BRD=1994&PAG=461&dept_id=339096&rfi=


Sorry libbies...I know your solution would have been for the boy to offer to hold his mom so the scum could get a better ride...but this time RIGHT won out!”

“I don't read Texican.”

“Okay then here is the translation

1. Incredible waste of skin breaks into house.
2. Waste ties up family
3. Mom gets 14 year old untied
4. 14 year old gets gun
5. Human waste stops wasting oxygen.

WHOOHOO! I still think in cases like this they need to go to where the Scum "stayed" and clean it out. Everything is sold that the family he wronged gets the money.

If scum is staying with HIS WOMMUN...they lose it all.”

“GOP scums' solution would be to shoot all puppies and kittens within a 10-mile radius in the head.

No??

As stupid as your comment though XL.”

“Cheer up Y2. Another bad guy will win soon enough.”

“Sorry Y2, name calling out of the gates. You lose.

Besides, what do you care? You’re not a citizen.”

“I'm a tax-payer though Nigal. Gives me some sort of qualification right - after all taxes are one of your other issues. (or is that arclite? ;)

And after, what, four years you've only just found my residency status any issue at all - nothing to do with disagreeing with you is it?

I'm really not trying to take your gun away. You feel you need to carry one to feel secure then that's your right and I'm pleased for you - I just don't buy much of the pro-gun propaganda that's put out there. There's also a lot of dubious statistics put out on the other side, but there's no real anti-gun lobby out there at the moment. They've been effectively silenced by the NRA.
I just think there needs to be some understanding that while guns cut down on things like home invasions, they also turn a number of petty arguments and domestic disputes into murders. I think there needs to be some acceptance that there are some costs to widespread gun ownership and some attempt to find possible solutions found.

This is not someone taking your gun away.

My 'GOP scum' response if more attuned to the Silly Libby, stupid libby, You libbies, Libbies this, libbies that, comments that people like to make.

Maybe if they concentrated less on telling everyone what the libbies were doing and more on what their views were things would be much easier.

I'll use the term 'moronic righties' instead when summarizing what you think. Will that be ok for you?
last edited: 10/11/06 11:05:01 AM”

“Cool!
That means I can use 'moronic leftie' for Y2!
[VBG]”

“but there's no real anti-gun lobby out there at the moment. They've been effectively silenced by the NRA.

Like what?”

“"I'll use the term 'moronic righties' instead when summarizing what you think. Will that be ok for you?"
Y2
11:57:35 AM
10/11/06

You’ve got it all wrong. It’s the loony left and ridiculous right. 8D”