Another responsible NRA member

“Sorry Y2, paying taxes does not give you the right to try and take away my rights. If ya don’t like guns and our rights to have and carry them go back to merry old England. (heehee! I got all Toby Kieth on yo ass!) If it’s not a big enough deal that you can live here with our rights then that’s fine, stay here but just because you’re partial to over reaching governments and fewer freedoms doesn’t mean I won’t call ya dumb fukc for crying about it.
last edited: 10/11/06 11:07:03 AM”

“"They've been effectively silenced by the NRA."

No, not silenced. They have been defeated by us, the voters.”

“Well the NRA is a very powerful and successful lobbying group. It piles money and resources against anyone politican who says anything vaguely anti-gun. It's off the table as an issue in America. Few politicians will say anything that could be seen as vaguely anti-gun.

Look at the response in political circles to columbine in relation to guns, and the lack of response following the recent set of spree killings in schools.

And given your arguments, I would only be trying to take your freedoms away if I was trying to take your gun away. Which I'm not. Gun proponents would like it to be the 'outlaw guns' argument, but it's not. This is partly how the NRA has been successful in turning the deabte into one of 'taking your guns away'.

And I think America is great, I choose to live here above other places. I'm unlikely to have any influence on your gun ownership, ever, and I'm just expressing my views to pass the time.
I'm surprised it bothers you so much. Maybe it's because of the subject matter as it only seems to have come up recently.
last edited: 10/11/06 11:23:36 AM”

“It’s not the guns they’re trying to take. It’s our gun rights. And they have hardly stopped btw. They are now targeting hunting and hunters. But as I have documented before, the NRA is very much involved with finding the solutions that do work because gun control and bans do nothing. They have started programs with their own money in efforts to bring crime down where it is the worst. And it has worked. They have used their own money to start instant background check systems where the government couldn’t or wouldn’t. The NRA not only protects gun owners rights but they work to make them more responsible and safer for everyone. Crime is down all across the country thanks to the NRA and their efforts.

They are hardly the shifty lobbyists who hand out money and whisper in ears to threaten those who are against them as you make them out to be. The NRA is right up their with NOW, the NAACP and any other group that legally fights for people’s rights.”

“zac - 'ridiculous right' does have some potential ;o) Though I'm not really going to stoop to that level, not for long anyway.”

“And then there's me...the "mindful middle".”

“I thought it was the "misminded middle."
or was that "misguided middle?"
last edited: 10/11/06 11:50:04 AM”

“the "muddled middle?"

Well I guess we differ on that Nigal - the only solutions I ever hear from the NRA - to everything, is something like 'give them a gun and train them'.

It's like a one size fits all.

"Got hemorrhoids - get a gun and learn how to use it."

As for threatening Freedom - I think there's more of a threat from the anti-terror laws than from an obscure anti-gun group which can't even get itself in sight of voters following three school spree killings in a week.”

“Then you must not read up on the NRA much. Just their education programs alone are invaluable.

I do agree that the Patriot Act is a threat to freedom but the threat from anti-gun organizations is still real, it is organized and will not stop. But we Americans are a smart lot and can chew gum and walk at the same time. No need to let one threat go while we face another.”

“ I think there's more of a threat from the anti-terror laws than from an obscure anti-gun group which can't even get itself in sight of voters following three school spree killings in a week.

I think most people realize that if you take guns (rights) away that the slogan "only the criminals will have guns" isn't just a clever catch phrase.”

“Gun proponents would like it to be the 'outlaw guns' argument, but it's not. This is partly how the NRA has been successful in turning the deabte into one of 'taking your guns away'.”

“But guns ARE outlawed in some areas. It's a constitutional right.”

““But guns ARE outlawed in some areas. It's a constitutional right.”

True. What if someone started an organization and got city leaders elected who banned voting in Washington DC or NYC? Or banned free speech? There would be such a hue and cry from coast to coast. True freedom is fighting for rights someone else sees as important even if you hate it.”

“1. Incredible waste of skin breaks into house.
2. Waste ties up family
3. Mom gets 14 year old untied
4. 14 year old gets gun
5. Human waste stops wasting oxygen.

so a human being gets killed for what? a tv?, maybe some cash?

now don't get me wrong, i'm not anti gun or gun rights, i just think they make situations more complicated...just because this guy broke into someone's house and was gonna steal something doesn't mean he should be blown away...just my $0.02

...and there was a mother and daughter involved??...what if the mom would have accidentally hit the daughter?...now all you texans calm down, i don't mean to go insinuating that texans are bad shots ;)
last edited: 10/11/06 12:17:54 PM”

“But we Americans are a smart lot and can chew gum and walk at the same time.

you're giving some of us waaay too much credit ;)”

““zac - 'ridiculous right' does have some potential ;o) Though I'm not really going to stoop to that level, not for long anyway.”
Y2
11:32:34 AM

That's never stopped you from telling me to "go suck treebeard's dick".
[VBG]”

““now don't get me wrong, i'm not anti gun or gun rights, i just think they make situations more complicated...just because this guy broke into someone's house and was gonna steal something doesn't mean he should be blown away...just my $0.02”

They tied them up! It wasn’t about a tv or vcr. It is about someone being attacked in their own home and feeling reasonably sure their life and limb were in danger. This is grounds for a justified shooting. Back in the day a person could get mugged and just hand over the cash and be half way sure the mugger would just take off. Now though 80% of armed robberies end with violence. 80%! Sorry, I’m not taking those odds.

I won’t shoot someone over property but when it comes to personal safety the perp loses every time.”

“So what is it about - a gun is for defending your freedom in a militia? Or is it about personal and home security.”

““But we Americans are a smart lot and can chew gum and walk at the same time.

you're giving some of us waaay too much credit ;)”

I know it's the preconceived notion that we Americans are dumb but I have a lot more belief and hope in the average American. Are there dumb people, of course. The vast majority are not.”

““So what is it about - a gun is for defending your freedom in a militia? Or is it about personal and home security.”

It’s two answer response. First, all three. Second, none of your business. There is no other justification needed for exercising our rights other than they are rights. No one has to justify their rights to free speech, voting, or others, right?”

“They tied them up! It wasn’t about a tv or vcr

right, he tied them up to avoid a physical encounter...call me a puss but i'd probably just lie there unless he did attack me...nobody's life, even a criminals in my eye, is worth that”

“Oath of Citizenship:

I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.”

“"As the man tried to break into the room where the two were and threatened to kill them both, the teen fired a shot through the door and hit the intruder in the head, Smith said."

I'd say that's just cause to shoot him.
last edited: 10/11/06 12:34:58 PM”

“How do we know he wasn't tying them up to make killing them easier? How many robberies do we see where there are multiple victims tied up and shot in the head? You may not see being tied up as a threat but think if it was your wife and child that were tied up.

No. Tying someone up in a robbery is clearly a threat to their safety.”

“As the man tried to break into the room where the two were and threatened to kill them both, the teen fired a shot through the door and hit the intruder in the head, Smith said."

I'd say that's more than just cause to shoot him.”
lumberzac

i didn't see this part, the link above doesn't work for me...i concur”

“No. Tying someone up in a robbery is clearly a threat to their safety.

right, but that's when you point the gun at them and say "get the phuck out of my phucking house or i'm gonna blow your phucking head off"...now i wasn't there but i can almost guarantee that's not what happened...she pointed and shot cause she was scared to death and wasn't thinking straight...that's why i say guns only make situations like this more complicated

now we've never actually met nigal, i hope someday we can, but from some of your other posts you strike me as someone that has tons of knowledge and training in gun use and safety and that is great and i would feel absolutely comfortable around you if you were packing but the truth is that's not the description of everyone, i'd even dare say most people that own a gun
last edited: 10/11/06 12:40:27 PM”

“yet, it's a constitutional right”

““...now i wasn't there…”

True. No one knows until they are in that situation.

“…but i can almost guarantee that's not what happened...she pointed and shot cause she was scared to death and wasn't thinking straight...”

Why must we assume she wasn’t thinking straight? Many times when you are in survival you’re your mind become crystal clear and there is but one thing on your mind…him or me. And why would they be scared to death? Maybe because he thought he and his mom’s lives were in danger? From the text:

“As the man tried to break into the room where the two were and threatened to kill them both, the teen fired a shot through the door and hit the intruder in the head, Smith said.”

The guy was trying to break the door down saying he was going to kill them. How much more do ya need?

“that's why i say guns only make situations like this more complicated”

What’s complicated about it? The perp said he was going to kill them, he was actively trying to get to them, the kid defended himself and his mother, the perp justifiably got a hole in the head. Very simple.


There is no guarantee that you will come out of these things alive and the perp gives up his rights to his own safety when he threatens someone else’s safety. If you threaten to kill someone and actively try to carry it out you deserve a mushroom stamp to the forehead.
last edited: 10/11/06 12:53:06 PM”

“Nigal - We'll never know either way - but I think it's safe to assume there was a little getting their story straight involed. I think he had every right to shoot - but if I'd shot someone in my home I'd make damn sure the police knew my life was threatened.”

“either way, it's a constitutional right

How did the conversation get moved to the anti-gun people on here saying guns should not be involved by the homeowner? I thought that was a misconception perpetuated by the pro-gun group?”

“RIGHTO! The good old ROYAL solution is to apologize to the criminal for being a lousy host and get some sherry and crumpets so he can have a quick tea between rapings....(LOL)”

“let me clarify that i think the shooting in this instance was justified...what i'm talking about is the kinds of stories that are all too common

some redneck wanker shoots a teenaged boy that's toilet papering his house...after investigating it it's found that the gun was legally registered and the owner took his one hour safety course or what ever else his state requires...and if it's in a state like texas it's legal to shot someone the trespasses on your property at night

i'd just like to see a little more mandatory education is all...it's way too easy to own a gun and a lot of people own them for "personal safety" who aren't capable or stable enough to own them or have no real reason to carry one for personal safety”

“thrifty, gotta ask for a specific reference for that claim. Sorry but it sounds a whole lot like the stuff the Anti Gun Nuts spread.”

“come on XL, you've never heard a story LIKE that??!!...you live in the south for christ's sake LOL

i'm not talking about a SPECIFIC case but that stuff happens all the time

...and by the way, please don't lump me into the "anti gun nut" wackos....i'm no where close”

“One hour of training? Oh yeah, you live in Indiana. LOL! Up until recently you didn’t even need training for a ccw in Indi. I agree, there should be mandatory training for ccw applicants. Here in Ohio we have to have something like 8-10 hours class time and 2 hours range time. My training was complete enough to make me fully aware of what to do and when to do it in order to stay responsible to my rights. I shoot monthly and will requalify annually of my own accord. We are required to train for a drivers license so it is not unreasonable to do so for a ccw. My state examined the facts and found that 8-10 hours class room and 2 hours range is a minimum for qualifying.

So you see, what you fear or desire is already in place in most ccw states. If yours is not I’d contact your state reps.”

“In Texas it is a weekend or more...then you need recert every few years. I think that should be mandatory.

Do you guys know how many 'ex military" get hurt trying to teach gun use? Thifty, not lumping you in with the crowd. I know your feelings.”

“"i'm not talking about a SPECIFIC case but that stuff happens all the time."


Oooooo THAT'S a slippery slope. I'd like to know where that stuff happens ALL THE TIME. Is that sorta like the lynchings that happen ALL THE TIME in the south but are just hushed up by all the KKK loving southerners?

We know it happens ALL THE TIME, don't we?

After all, ALL southerners are dumb rednecks, aren't they?
last edited: 10/13/06 5:56:02 AM”

“YEHHAAAAW there...yep we REDNECKS are uneducated...and guess what...we inbreed (LOL)...thanks arc give me a chance to practice my REDNECK>”

“I found something interesting. I was looking to see what Kentucky’s open carry laws were for firearms and found this map of all the states and their levels of permissible open carry. I was surprised to see that Texas is one of the most restrictive states for open carry. I guess next time an anti-gunner starts in about we just want it to be like Texas I’ll know better.

”

“Hmmmm, I can't believe NY is so restrictive.
lollollollollollol”

“There was a guy in Toledo who went into a gas station with his gun showing (he has a ccw permit) because in Ohio we must drive with the gun in plain view so one has to tuck and untuck their shirt. Someone saw it and called the police. They did a felony stop on him and had him face down on the ground with an AR15 aimed at him. In the video you hear the officer after running his permit saying, “He checks out.”, and the guys replying, “No shlt I check out!”. They busted him for not disclosing to the officers he was carrying. Kind of hard to do when the cops are 30’ and yelling at you through the speaker.

Even if we could carry open I wouldn't.”

“WTF does nonpermissive mean? I know Texas is a CCW state.

Nigal I have a close friend who is a US Marshal. He was pulled for driving too quickly in Virgina he keeps his side arm on a holster (clearly visible) on the door of his car.
The cop orders him to get out of the car. He opens the door, the cop sees the gun and draws down on him.He is laying in the RAIN on the highway for 10 minutes until a supervisor shows up.

The whole time the young trooper is telling him to keep quiet. When the supervisor shows up he finally lets my friends show his ID. Then the supervisor says,"Well you can't carry in Virgina."....”

“NY is very restrictive. So are California, Connecticut, and Massachusetts. NYC and DC almost ban weapons altogether. Can anyone draw any conclusions about the political affiliation of those areas? Sure you can.

I’m not sure where you got that info, Nigal, but Florida isn’t as bad as many. We don’t register guns, we don’t register users, and you don’t need a permit to purchase. And let’s not forget that Florida was the first state to pass “castle doctrine” legislation.

It’s even legal for me to purchase and carry my automatic knives here.”

“Actually it's pretty easy to purchase riffles and shotguns in NY, I can go to pretty much any gun shop and walk out with a riffle or shotgun in about 10 minutes. Pistols on the other hand are a pain in the ass.”

“We know it happens ALL THE TIME, don't we?

After all, ALL southerners are dumb rednecks, aren't they?
last edited: 10/13/06 6:56:02 AM”
arclite

holy crap, where'd that come from...easy killer, nobody's attacking you...besides you're from florida, that's not really even the south LOL
last edited: 10/13/06 3:37:14 PM”

“The expert on everything southern speaks.

And, as happens all the time, we listen intently.
last edited: 10/13/06 3:48:07 PM”

“easy killer, seriously what's up...not tryin to offend...you fuego boys take things a little too seriously”

“

[VBG]”

“
"After all, ALL southerners are dumb rednecks, aren't they?"

Really??
I'll make a note.”

“MarkO lives below the Mason Dixon line, LMAO!”