gps advice

“I know, I know - I could just search past threads but this is a bit of an emerging technology and I imagine people have new things to add.....

I am toying with the idea of getting a GPS unit. The main thing I am interested is an altimeter but a watch with that is so expensive I figure I could buy a unit which would tell me how far I go, too. What else do people really use their GPS units for? I'm not one for technology for technology's sake and don't like things that require too much fussing.

Geocacheing sounds like fun (I know, I have been looking at that thread, too).”

“PepperD:

I've got one on permanent loan from a friend and I can tell you they are very cool. You can plug in points to where you are going, mountains, rivers, big geological features, etc. and then you always know where you are. At first I was a little disappointed because it is an older model and some of the newer models have more detailed maps, etc. but I have found it very interesting and fun. No replacement for real map skills but having all the waypoints of where you have been and where you are going at your fingertips is very satisfying.”

“What Rosey said. Its kinda cool when you get to where you're going. The arrow points you right to it. At Gibbs Lake we were 292 ft from where we marked the waypoint.

I also take it snowboarding. I get the time on the slopes, elevation, mileage, max speed.

I have the Garmin e-Trex, $119 at REI. Only problem is it eats batteries.”

“If you've got the $$$ get a Garmin GPS-5.”

“i also have the e-trex... I usually store the trail head location and turn it off... i only use it to find my way back and if i need to pinpoint a location for sar activities...otherwise i stick to the old map and compass routine...”

“I would seriously look at an e-trex with an independant altimeter because GPS units may be very accurate at 2D positons, but the really suck at measuring altitude. I have a Garmin GPS 12 (I think) and even though it doesn't have a base map I still find it very helpfull in the backcountry. The best feature is that a GPS can not only tell you your position in Lat./Lon. but your distance and bearing from another way point. So if you download several key waypoints from some software, triangulation your position on a standard topo becomes cake. You don't even have to be able to see the land marks.”

“If money is really not an object go for the Trimble Pathfinder Pocket with a Trimble Beacon-on-a-Belt and connect it to a pocket PC. Everything fits in a small corner of your pack.

Real time differential correction (sub-meter accuracy) displayed on aerial photographs or satellite imagery. Store thousands of waypoints, tracks, or polygons and do analysis in the field. With all the peripheral hardware and software about $2500-3000.

A bit much for most people. So go for one of the inexpensive recreation grade models if you just want the latest gadget to fool around with, just take the published claims of accuracy with a healthy dose of skepticism.”

“Mostly only use mine to verify position on a map. When I first got it, I had grand plans of syncing with my TOPO, entering all my waypoints, etc., but ran into MULTIPLE problems trying to get it to communicate w my computer(s). Tech support was horrible from just about everyone, never did get everything working the way it "should", finally came to the conclusion that it does what I wanted in the first place... tells me exactly where I am, & lets me manually plot on my map, which I always have w me.

Agree w SN, it eats batteries, I only turn mine on whenever I want to check my position, so my batts last a long while.

I should also point out that I have A LOT of specialized software loaded on my computers, am always re-configuring, adding new stuff, etc., so am not sure that my problems were all TOPO's or Garmin's...they were just conflicts that couldn't be easily resolved, and I didn't have the time or interest in wrestling with it.”

“Go home, memorise the stares, and thats all you need. It worked for poeple thousands of years ago, it will work now.”

“The Garmin etrex summit has a lot of features you mentioned.

I have the Garmin eMap and it works great in the mountains and as a highway navigator. I download topo maps from the Garmin Mapsource CD ROM. There are more accurate topos, but it works pretty good. You can map out a route on your computer screen, then save it to the GPS unit...and do the same in reverse.

You can do a lot more with a GPS that first meets the eye. I guess being a gadget person helps.”

“Mine was purchased after I hiked in whiteout, and the guy I was with argued about our location. He insisted he knew where we were. Turns out I was right, and the way he took us was back down.

Last weekend we weren't even on the trail, and there were no blazes to follow. While in the trees, the GPS was helpful and pointed us in the right direction.”

“"Whiteout" What does that refer to? A sever snow storm? ???”

“I am "sorta-kinda" anti-technology to the extent that I see people wrestling around w their GPS, and yet don't have a clue how to read a map. That to me is a potentially great danger..."Oh, you dont have to know what you're doing, here's a GPS!". Unfortunately, I've seen it happen.

IMHO, a GPS is an AID to navigation, and shouldn't replace basic skills / knowledge. The primary reason I wanted mine was a similar situation to Snow Nymph's... on a snow-covered trail / white-out condition where one cannot take bearings, etc etc., a GPS is a great alternate information source to help you determine your current position.

It's a great tool, but ya gotta know how to use it, and also know what it's limitations are.

End of sermon. Sorry.”

“Thanks for everyone's 2 cents.

I love maps so I don't see ever hiking without one. I also love to really know how far and high I hiked. Maybe I should just find someone with a gps unit to do some hiking with and see if it really gives me usful info. I gather that if you turn the unit off you won't get an accurate reading of distance and speed and batteries that supposedly last 24 hours wouldn't do much good on a week long hike.”

“would it kill some one to tell me what a "whiteout" is?”

“It's when the snow is falling/blowing so hard that you can't see anything.”

“You were right Tea. It's when a snowstorm is blowing so hard that all you can see is white. Kinda like a blackout only with snow.”

“Pepperdog, I'd be happy to help you out... have had my Garmin 12CX for a couple years, and have hiked most times with it, evan the Llama Rama... 'member?

I use it to check positions, distances, guage direction, time & distance to next point, etc... almost anything you can imagine, though elevation is still sketchy. You gotta stay in one spot for several minutes to get proper triangulation.

I also use TOPO! and have downloaded waypoints, routes, etc. to my GPS (and back!). You can also mark waypoints on the trail, then upload them to TOPO! where it then lays out your path on the maps. Verrrrry cool. And Useful.

Do I need it? Probably not, but I'm no purist, nor a minimalist. It's a tool which helps me accomplish my goal, enhances the experience, and reminds me of "special" points along the way... like Mel's best Trout spots!!

Oddly, my 12CX specs showed it would last on 4 AA's 50% longer than for the B&W version! But I get 36 hours straight on alkalines, another 12 +/- with Lithiums... and they're much lighter to boot. The whole outfit weighs in at 9 oz., and of course, with newer models out, I could shave 2.5 ounces or so...

Pepperdog... when you wanna do it?”

“Thanks, I have never heard of the term before used in that context. I guess because in New Jersey we never get persipitation, and when we do get it, it is in the most inconvenet time. Like it will rain tomorrow just as my 4X1600 is going off.

Thanks for the explination”

“My batteries last 7-8 hrs, a full day of snowboarding. That means 4 AA batteries/weekend. I tried the rechargeables, and they last 3-4 hrs. The lithiums last about 12 hrs, but costs a lot more.

My e-Trek with batteries is 5.4 oz.

Since this weekend's trip is all on trail, I'll probably use it only for elevation readings. Might try to do one of the surrounding peaks on Sunday using the GPS.”

“When I was reading the titles I thought this one said gas advice!”

“Frap.”

“I have the E-Trex & it is wonderful to have on the trail. It is all you really need for hiking. Of corse, if I was rich, I would have gotten a higher end model, but I am very pleased with mine. I find the elevation feature the most useful, because you can really pinpoint your position on a topo map. It is worth the price & the weight for extra batteries, if your serious about your hiking.
The end”

“I have the E-Trex & it is wonderful to have on the trail. It is all you really need for hiking. Of corse, if I was rich, I would have gotten a higher end model, but I am very pleased with mine. I find the elevation feature the most useful, because you can really pinpoint your position on a topo map. It is worth the price & the weight for extra batteries, if your serious about your hiking.
The end”

“I am a dork & don't know how to send a thread without sending it twice. Even though I am a dork I have no problem running my e-trex.
The end again”

“I agree that the GPS does not replace a map and compass. You have to know how to use a map and compass anyway to really appreciate and properly use a GPS unit.

A map and compass only work when you can see and identify topographical features. A GPS and and altimeter are wonderful navigational aids that will cover you for almost anything.

I put in lithium batteries before llama trips and two AA's will last the whole week. I don't leave it on to track. I only turn it on when I want to see something.”

“My GPS is not very accurate at displaying elevation. The satelite reception has to be very good to even get close. The GPS has a 2D and 3D mode that changes automatically according to signal strength. On a cloudless day with few obstacles the GPS will track in 3D. When it is overcast and you are deep in a hollow it may never lock on with 3D navigation.

My Suunto Vista wrist watch gives very accurate altitude readings. It has a pressure sensor and calculates altitude by atmospheric pressure changes.

Some GPS units have a pressure sensor so if you want accurate info on your Z axis make sure the GPS has a atmospheric pressure sensor.

Check out joe.mehaffey.com for GPS info.”

“Garmin E-trex here.”

“The battery save mode helps too, and set the lighted screen feature to shut off fast. That's a good idea to just turn it on accasionally.”

“Rule of thumb -- For the elevation error multiply the horizontal error x 3. Don't rely on GPS for elevations. Get a regular altimeter if you need more accurate elevations.

The horizontal error displayed is the standard error, so it is saying there is a 63% probability the actual location is within the given distance, thus a 37% probability it is greater. For a 95% probability double the displayed value. 99% triple, etc.”

“I repeat... Get a GARMIN E-TREX LEGEND

I took a friend hiking yesterday to remove one of my geocaches, and he borught with him an E-Trex Legend he signed out from the University of Akron for his GPS class. I showed him how to work it, ran him through some exercises and even had him find 2 geocaches.

Anywho... While bring up pages to reset functions and whatnot I kept saying "My GPS doesn't do this." I mean it, there were many functions my Garmin 3+ did not do. Well, over some beers last night we got onto Garmin's website and you can compare products, and it turns out (get this) that compared to my 3+ the Legend has a bunch more capabilities, is lighter in wieght, smaller insize and about $100 less expensive.

What gets me is Garmin just put out the GPS 5, and comparing that to the 2 best E-Trex versions (of which there are many variations of) it appears the 5 is a bigger, bulkier, less functionable GPS that is way overpriced compared to the E-Trex models. Seriously...Garmin is putting out an inferior product and charging more $$$ for it.

All in all... I want to sell my 3+ and get a Legend. Of course, in 3 years the Legend will probably be inferior as the 3+ is now. And while you're in Garmin's site, check out the 2-Way GPS Radios that'll show you where you are and the other person you are talking to, etc.”

“Oh yeah... The Legend will also download/upload for onscreen street and topographic data, has much more pixles to make the screen more legible, WAAS capability, has a built in calendar and celestial data, almost 6 times the number of waypoints per route than a 3+ and logs more Tracklog points per tracks too. It only uses 2 AA batteries instead of 4 which means the battery life won't last as long, but in reality when multiplied by 2 (for 4 batteries) actually last longer than the units tha use 4 AA batteries. It is listed as $268, but IMO that is a GREAT deal.”

“Pepperdog, you should look at the www.geocaching.com website for more information.

They have very informative discussions at a forum they call groundspeak. You could read through some of that info.
Groundspeak Forum
You might need to actually register somewhere along the way to get in there, however.

Good luck!”

“I would recomend the E-trex Vista. It is the same as the Legend, but also has a barometric altimeter and compass.

Garmin also provides downloadable software upgrades for your GPS operating system. The upgrades do not usually include new features, but they clear up bugs and improve performance. Look for software upgrades on the garmin.com site.”

“I have an old Garmin 12. I love it. In the marine industry we have always used charts and compass when we started to use electronic aids we still relyed on our charts and compass. Same in the woods I have always used maps and compass and when I started using a GPS it did not replace the map. Quite the contrary the two used in conjunction with each other make a great team. Remember your compass is technology too.I like to get a bearing to my desination with the GPS and then follow that bearing with my compass. Be sure to Change your true north setting to magnetic and program the Declination for your area. Also even if your elevation is not being accurate at a given time your waypoints or your trackline will put you at your desired elevation.”

“Pepper Dog, You asked what people use GPS for. When you leave your Truck punch in your present position as a waypoint. You can also, before you leave the house punch in your desination as well as any forks in the trail creeks lakes or anything else your interested in. Your GPS will point the way tell you how far you are away and tell you what time it will be when you arrive at your desination. As long as your machine is working you will never be lost. It will tell you exactly the direction to go and how far away you are. It also tells you how fast you are walking jogging or driving. My GPS is water proof to a depth of 6 ft and must be shock proof it has fallen many times and I have had to retrieve it from the bottom of a mud puddle. It is practicaly bomb proof. It also uses the same batteries as my headlamp. I have only scratched the surface of the GPS capabilities it is great fun figuring out what it can do. Put in that truck or trailhead waypoint and you will always make it back. No worries”

“I set a few waypoints on my GPS for this weekend. One option was a trail junction to Dobbs Peak. Our legs were too tired after yesterdays ascent to San Gorgonio Peak, so we just wanted to see where the trail junction was. The GPS took me to 56 ft from the actual trail. We'll save this peak for another trip.”

“Obi - I keep meanin go call you to see when you want to show me more about your GPS (really, it's not a come-on...). I will be busy next weekend but not the weekend after, if you want to go for a hike. I still want to see what this geocaching is all about, too.”