Dating sucks

“Yes I understand that bitpusher, and when I had a small child I didn't get out as often either. But they do grow up and then - now I can go anytime I want, and I do, and I'm not willing to give that up.

What people look for in a relationship differs depending on what stage they are in their life. Maslow's hierarchy of needs.”

“Trailtrekker - I go in the mornings, I knew I was doing something wrong ;o)”

“Y2, I go to the gym in the mornings also. Not a lot there to chose from, not that I am looking at this point.”

“The last bf didn't want to hike or backpack - it was very frustrating. In the beginning he said that he was interested in hiking (did it when he was younger), but he always had an excuse not to go when I headed out on a hike.

I really don't see the gym as a place to meet men - it seems that most of the ones my age are sporting wedding rings.”

“I just don't think an active person mixes well with a couch potato.

When you have small children, it's hard to get out. I think that's why you see so many middle aged hikers - the kids are grown.
(there's that middle aged again)”

“And sometimes when people say they love the outdoors, that means gardening or golf...”

“And sometimes when people say they love the outdoors, they're lying, lol...”

“some people take to the outdoors to get out of the situation they are in at home/work. It is a way to relieve the stress.”

“I dunno - I got a few cute hill staffers at mine - including one who I've labelled Miss Dynamite - she's small but damn fit :o) Works out real hard.”

“lol, yah, when I was young and had the time, I used to go walking around the campus at UAH...always passed a young lady who I gave the name "Legs" because she always wore spandex tights...lol...”

“I don't think you need to necessarily have a carbon copy of yourself to have a happy relationship. Sometimes that's worse than having differening interests. Accepting each other's interests carries far more weight. Consider this scenario: you meet someone who's very active- runs, bikes, hikes, etc., you develope a relationship. For whatever reason, either one of you cannot participate at that level anymore (e.g.,illness, injury, job). If your whole relationship was based on the love and sharing of a mutual activity, you'll split up.

I knew a couple that was really into triathlons. After a few years, the woman became bored with the every-weekend-training routine and they split up.

Still, you're more likely to be better off meeting someone while you're doing the things you like than looking somewhere you really don't have much interest.”

“Hey Trailtrekker. Things have really changed in the last 20 years! When I was younger there were only guys doing all the backpacking, skiing, running, biking. I'd be up at the ski mountain and it would be 90% guys and 10% women. The older guys (uh, over 40 now) are still doing all that stuff, but way more women are involved. The problem is, they're all 25. The younger guys, as far as I can tell, are no where to be found on the trails (except a few TT'ers?). I don't see them running or biking either. I work with some women in thier mid-20's, who are very active outdoors, and that's the complaint I hear from them; where are all the guys their age who like to do something other than watch football and go clubbing? I can see it in all the endurance sports now- more younger women and fewer younger guys. We just had a road race here not long ago and the 20-29 MALE category was almost devoid of participants. The top finishers were all over 40- it's pathetic! I know there's exceptions, but the younger guys (18-30) aren't very active as far as I can tell.”

“I don't think you have to be joined at the hip, but on the same wavelength is good...”

“Yuk! It would be like dating yourself!”

“The young guys are all sitting on the couch, watching the Lingerie Bowl and playing Sega.”

“Bit aren't you 31?!”

“41, Sass, 41...”

“There is a big difference between enjoying someone's company and wanting to hop in the sack with them. If the spark is there you will work it out and if it is not no amount of things in common will make it work methinks.

I too have been lucky that my husband likes what I like or vice the verse. In recent years he wants to golf more so I have been hiking with others as well as with him. He has tried to get me to golf but I just can't work up an interest--I do walk courses with him though. When the kids were small we just took them with us.”

“X-Box bit - X-box ;o)”

“See how desperately out of touch I am with youth culture? lol...”

“I'm 31 sass :o) for three months more anyway”

“Their all kids on the "age" string! that is, compared to me.”

“"Yuk! It would be like dating yourself!"
aero
11:48:49 AM
02/05/04


Oh Gawd, this could deteriortate quickly here. Some of the perverts have missed a shot, they must be sleepin in.”

“I've always thought that you should take yourself out to a nice dinner and a movie, before going home and abusing yourself, lol...”

“So, who on Trailtalk is dating or married to someone that hikes and/or backpacks?”

“Yes to all of the above!”

“Acceptance, patience, undertanding, a pretty face and a nice body is all I ask. Unfortunately, if they have the last two, the majority of women are stuck up, misguied, confused money-hungry, stupid, or all of the above.

Tarabull, sass, smiley, wolfeyes, sunshine, dhutch and cowpatty meet all of these criteria (something in the water in MI), but they are so cool and beatiful, or married, that ya can't date em'!

Where's my wingman!”

“"ya" can't?

riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.




okay Shawn, here's Standard Reply #5:

"I'm not dating myself, but I am waiting by the phone for me to call..."”

“I wouldn't want to date myself - i can be such an ass”

“How many Wingdings are there? 02, 04 ???”

“BB you're too kind. Be careful though....I've heard it's arsenic in our water, although I'm thinking it may be mercury.

Wingding, I am. We share many interests but each of us has our seperate hobbies too. Most important though we both love the outdoors and hiking, etc.”

“just 01 and 04 - at work I'm 04 and at home I'm 01”

“Ohhhhhhh my, I wish I had the balls to post the "Dear John" letter I just got. It is a true classic and supports many of my theories on dating and relationships.

OK, I have to get ready for my upcoming date (another girl).

Go Artex Go! Imagine the flight team we'd make brotha!”

“oh BB please let it be me”

“Here is the edited version of her email and my response. Enjoy, maybe we can all learn something here.


"Jay,
>
> First of all, I just want to say "for the record" that
I don't know why you would wait so long after the whole Super Bowl
ordeal to contact me. You were obviously peeved that I didn't go w/
you and that to me is totally unacceptable. First of all, you knew
how looking forward I was to watching my show [Charmed] on Super Bowl Sunday,
and for you to ask me to miss that to watch a sports thing of all
things, was asking me to make a big sacrifice (aside from my telling
you in person how much I could care less about sports, my
"profile" was also clear on how little I cared about
watching sporting events: "Sports? Not for me. But you go boy!
I'll just do my own thing at those times" to paraphrase what I
wrote in my profile). But I was willing to do it b/c I figured it
would be nice for [her child] to get out of the house and visit w/ some
other kids her own age. The selling point for me was NOT that I
would get to hear stories of your sordid past from your friends. I
felt there was plenty enough time for that sort of thing later,
should we have decided to take our relationship to that level. I
honestly didn't think it was that big a deal when I decided not to
go. I felt bad for making you come over to my house first, but I
really didn't think it to be THAT big a deal. I didn't think we were
advanced enough in our "relationship" to do the whole
"meet the friends" deal, and that's not even what I was
thinking when you first asked me to go. But then it started to seem
that way to me and I didn't feel comfortable w/ it. I would've
thought that you would've understood that. If you were just a little
disappointed, I would've understood that. But not so disappointed
that you would wait 4 days to contact me. It seems to me a petty and
selfish thing for you to do. I also hadn't read your email about the
day's events until the day of the Super Bowl and I didn't realize
many things. One, I didn't know that the game started so late. I
thought it would've started around noon and that we'd be home by
around 5: or 6:p.m. Also, I didn't realize how far we would be going
or how late we would be staying. Given the circumstances ([her child]
crankiness and teething), I didn't want to drag her out to go that
far or to stay out that late. I don't even take her out to my own
friends or family that late in the day/evening, regardless of her
state of being. I do understand that you may be unfamiliar w/ that
sort of thing, but none the less, I don't understand why you would be
even remotely upset when I gave you my reasons for not wanting to go.
I didn't want to go somewhere where I would feel uncomfortable and
yes, even vulnerable. Especially w/ my kid. And your reaction spoke
volumes of your demeanor and frankly, I neither need nor want the
drama.
>
> Thanks for the birthday wishes, but I do think that perhaps
neither of us is ready for this type of relationship. I know I'm
not. So I believe that it's best that we both cut our losses and
move on.
>
> Good luck w/ everything and take care,
>
> [Confused Girl]"

My response:

Dear [confused girl],

I'm glad we are able to do this over the phone, which would have been
much more appropriate, especially after all the misconceptions from
the last time we tried working on some misunderstandings via email.
I do, however, appreciate you candid view on what you deem "the
superbowl ordeal", as misguided as it may be, and, will explain
my thoughts on the matter "for the record" so we can have a
complete record of this whole thing for posterity's sake.

In order to fully undertand my demeanor, I have to include all the
comments and my perceptions during those fateful 10 minutes in the
"superbowl ordeal". I extended you two invitations, both
via email and verbal, and notified you that the game was at 6:30 in
the evening. My intent for asking you and [her child] to the party was
simply to get out, have fun, interact with other people, and have my
friends meet someone who I thought was an amazing, bright and
beautiful woman, and her great kid. I also thought it would be cool
for [her child] to play with other kids her age in a baby-proofed home,
and for you and I to just have some fun, outside of the home. I
considered the fact that you were not into sports, but knew this
would be more of a "party" than a superbowl party. In
addition, the host of the party was kind enough to extend this
invitation to you and [her child], which I thought was pretty cool. You
had the option to decline, and it would have been no big deal. Yet,
you chose to accept, and I thought we'd have a great time.

When I arrived at your home, I thought that we'd worked out the
dilemma of your TV show, when you asked your sis to tape it for you.
But I overheard you on the phone describing the date, and I'm
paraphrasing, as "some superbowl party" with a convincing
eye-roll. At that point I thought, well, maybe she doesn't want to
go, so I'll be a nice guy and give her an opportunity to opt out.
Before I could bring it up, you made a comment about how I critisized
your meal from the night before. That kind of threw me, for I felt I
went out of my way to be considerate and appreciative of the time and
effort you put into making the meal. I reiterated again, how I
appreciated the meal, and liked the food. Then, sensing even more
that maybe you didn't really want to go to this party at all, I told
you that you didn't have to go if you didn't want to. I stated that
I really wanted you to go, for the reasons mentioned above, but it
was OK, if you didn't want to attend. I would have been
disappointed, yes, but it was something that I could have understood,
which is why I made the suggestion in the first place. Ater going
back and forth, you made a comment about me laying some sort of guilt
trip on you. Again, this threw me because I thought my intentions
were clear. Maybe people in the past made you feel guilty about your
actions, or maybe, after reading your reasons for wanting to go to
the party, and ultimately deciding to stay home, you brought this
guilt trip upon yourself.

The reasons you stated in your email concering the time of day, and
[her child's] situation were totally acceptable, and was what I partially
sensed during the ordeal. However, on the drive to the party, I
couldn't help but read into the situation on a deeper level. It
became apparent that there was more to this than concerns for
[her child], and the situation as a whole, it became pretty clear that
you were being pretty inconsiderate of me, or whatever seeds of a
relationship we had. It seemed, and became clear after your email,
that your television show took a priority over our relationship, and
that this was a pattern. The evening that we were supposed to see
the movie, we had to rearrange plans to coincide with
"Charmed", which I was more than willing to do, but there
was fall-out. And here we have it again. I'm not going to apologize
for asking you to make "a big sacrifice" by missing a TV
show to hang out with me, and quite frankly, I don't deserve that
type of inconsiderate behavior toward me in a relationship. This
realization, along with the comments about the criticism, and the
guilt trip, made me realize that I wasn't prepared to invest any more
time or effort into a relationship where the other person had
priorities, within the relationship, that were selfish and
inconsiderate.

However, even after having all of these thoughts, I still wanted to
discuss this with you at an appropriate time in order to think about
the situation further. You could have easily called or emailed me
from Monday until now, yet you chose not to do so. I thought it
wouldn't be a nice thing to discuss this with you on or the day
before your birthday, I didn't want to ruin it for you, so I decided
to call you wishing you a happy birthday, and then have this
discussion the next day.

Evidently, my consideration of you and your feelings, and your
irrational and misguided reactions to them, have put me in the
demeanor that you speak of. So I guess the feeling is mutual, which
is unfortunate, but I think will be best for the both of us.

I have a few of your CD's, and I know you have a couple of movies and
a bottle of massage oil that I'd like back. Maybe we could make some
arrangements to exchange these, if not, no big deal.

Best of luck to you and [her child].

Jay


Here's the pisser, for her birthday, I had arranged the following: I was going to have her get a sitter, and pay for it, arrive with flowers, take her to a spa, buy her an hour massage, and pay to get her hair styled (she had a wedding to go to next week, and had mentioned how she hadn't had a hair cut in months due to demands of motherhood), then, we were going to a nice place for dinner, and then to the theatre in downtown Cleveland, and top it all off with some nice vino at a cool wine bar in a nice romantic overlook. I spent alot of time arranging this for the girl, and spent even more time cancelling everything. I guess I'm the bad guy here, right? If so, in the immortal words of "Scarface"


"Say Hello to da Bad Guy!"


Happy "Chili's Gone Day" Cottonsocks!”

“Buddha- whew!
That she wanted to watch a TV show- that that was a priority- kinds blows my mind. To each his own , but jeez- TV shows can be recorded. Sounds like she missed out on a killer birthday evening. Sorry that it didn't work out, but maybe better that you didn't invest too much time and energy into it, and then find out 6 months down the road what you found out due to the "Superbowl Ordeal".”

“The tv thing is just ridicamus!

Sounds like she kind of a flake. Cool birthday plan though.”

“Such drama!!

I've said it before but it's true, if it ain't fun, what's the point?”

“Yup, she should have been a little more patient and held out the for the spa treatment, wine and theatre!

You need to date someone with a "Kill your TV" bumper sticker!

I tell ya, Buddha, if I wasn't a guy....”

“Artex and I should do a TT reality dating show, where you folks get to pick who we date next.

Aero, I don't know if I should be complimented or disturbed!~ lol

Shawn, ya hit the nail on the head, this is 90% more fun and entertaining than upsetting. That's my new approach, entertain myself.

Thanks for listening folks!”

“Flattered, yet disturbed. Yes, that's me!”

“What gives? This woman obviously has some problems. I just never quite got mind games, whether conscious or subconscious, or whatever her deal is.
Hope the other one (the date you mentioned) works out better. If not, that birthday sounds damn good to me...”

“uh, Budda Bear, my birthday is coming up in oh say 10 1/2 months and i will really need a haircut by then.....Um did this girl know of the "birthday plans"? That is totally unreal. "Charmed"? Must be a pretty dammed good show, I think I will watch it tomorrow night. Well I think you are way to young fer me... but my daughter will be legal in a few years”

“Run, Buddha, Run!!”

“Charmed? Sheeshola!!!!!!!!!!!!

For crying out loud. There's a reason I don't ever turn on the TV. Go figure.

Buddha, I know you don't know me, but I'm sure you can do better than that. Say what you mean and mean what you say is my motto. No games.

I was just thinking I wish I could meet a man in my neck of the woods who is single, has a brain, and likes to camp. Do they have a web site for that?”

“"Hey--Cindylu found a nice man who will hike with her. He wasn't a hiker but she is teaching him and he loves it."

MaryPhyl
04:04:51 AM
02/05/04

Well. He was KIND of a hiker, not a backpacker. No. He was a backpacker, he just didn't KNOW it.
We met through a dating site (YIKES!)with outdoor interest as a main reason for initial contact. I wasn't interested in men who considered walking the dog a "hike" (That guy was out after the first date)
But it's not totally about sharing interests, although that IS important. It's about valuing differences, and appreciating and respecting each other's interests. Mostly we've found we like the same kinds of things, and have the same priorities in life. We have deep respect for each other's individuality.
A great thing here is that he is very open to learning about my interests, and I am open to learning about his. We have developed new interests together, such as climbing. I've learned a lot about coin collecting, and found that I like it too. And goldpanning. We tinker with computers.
It really doesn't matter what we do together. We just enjoy each other. We enjoy life.”

“Buddha - If a girl won't give up "Charmed" for a guy that likes her, something is wrong. Keep looking - the right one is out there, or maybe not. You could end up being middle-aged and still looking. I know someone like that - me. But, it's the chase that's the most fun anyway.”

“GOD BLESS Cindy Lu. The ultimate date is one who can appreciate the one he/she loves, regardless of circumstnce. Cindy is in the place we all want to be, disregarding lime-green jello. Hell, encompassing Lime Green Jello!”

“Wingding, I've met you and those guys don't know what they're misssing- they need to get out more! Backpacking women are a rare breed.”

“After reading this thread, I have to say one thing...and others have also hit the nail on the head...

BB, there were games with this woman from the git-go. Not on your part, but hers. Apparently, she is in a stage in her life where she is struggling between being a young mother and a young woman searching for her Self. Apparently, it will be up to the "man" she chooses to date to cow-town to her and do what makes her happy or else, there will be things like this to pay. And that is just it...it seems like when they are young and not very in touch with who they are, women tend to play games that create "debt" that the man has to pay with his emotions...therefore, providing that opportunity for men to be confused about women, hold their feelings inside as to not totally go off the deep end of which they are pushed up against, and last but not least, keep Dr. Phil employed. In the end, there is still a dozen red roses, a bottle of wine...wilting and spilled...but just around the corner, is a woman of strength, who knows who she is...and someday, you will find her. In the meantime, remember that every other woman with whom you spend time with, they are just vehicles to the ONE. So, ride em, and ride em well, BB.”