Backpacking consumerism

“Oh... I just found an 800-fillpower bag liner at REI Outlet for 65 bucks. It's going to be a great Summer bag, <VBG>.”

“Backpackers exhibit an amazing variety of backgrounds, interests, and income levels. If there is snobbery, it tends to be a reverse snobbery by those who don't have lots of money to buy the latest and greatest gear and equipment.

Worry about your own choices.”

“In the spring, I start to walk and ride my bicycle more, especially on saturday mornings. I try to hit every Yard Sale within a 10 mile radius. I find alot of camping, BP'ing and bicycle gear for dirt cheap. I found a magnesium fire starter for 10 cents, rain gear for a quarter, cookware quarter, backpack two dollars, and etc. If it is no good, I throw it out without feeling guilty. On a few occasions I have lost some stuff, or had to abandon some gear, due to an emergency, and I was not out any thing. Sometimes I find a piece of gear I really like, and when it needs replacing, I will buy that brand. Some gear, I will not trust if it is used. I keep a good Leatherman Knife, good hiking shoes, etc...
As for food, the only thing I don't like is liver. I DO NOT EAT LIVER, someone has to take a stand on this, and I would rather stand on it than eat it.”

“Violin, you're saying that there is a stigma attched to having too much high-end gear?”

“I have yet to meet a ‘gear snob’. It is a natural reaction to be jealous of those who have more – just not necessarily healthy.”

“i've found that the higher end gear is usually worth it, but if i was trying to get by cheaply i could definitely do it. i think usually what you pay for is the research for brand names. the lesser names get their research from what the more expensive brands put out.

on more expensive tents you get a little better venilation, zippers move smoother, LIGHTER, etc.
lighter stuff that does the same job as heavier stuff is where i usually spend my money.”

“Interesting point of view, Violin. I don't know that I'd be jealous of someone for having the latest toy or whatever in the backcountry.

I don't know what type of gear you use backpacking, but it could very well have an influence on whether or not you've met a "gear snob" and known about it.

Please don't get me wrong, though. I'm not trying to demean anyone for their choice of what to do with their money. I'm only trying to understand.

It seems a very simple thing that we do. We walk into the woods. The means to do it isn't necessarily expensive or hard to find, but sometimes, people make it so.”

“I'm jealous of people who have more time and fewer committments, but have to remind myself that I made the choices that led me to this point.”

“By the way, Pathman, I just looked at your page. I used to manage the computer operations department at Lovelace. Small world. A good friend of mine still works at Home Health, there.”

“Small world indeed!”

“I think I hear what you're saying. I had a friend who wanted to go 'hiking' with me one time. She was all worried about having the right look. She bought a new hippack, water bottles, a sports bra (in AZ lots of chics jog/hike in only their sports bras)... borrowed a 4WD jeep from a friend so we could drive to the TH in style (it was paved the whole way). I was laughing my butt off.”

“It is not something I normally run into though.”

“Good example, Biz. I see quite a bit of that among my 'hipster' friends. Most of them work in the computer industry here in Northern California, and I can't decide whether to laugh at or weep for the things they spend money on, epsecially since I know them well, and know that, often, they can't really afford all the toys. Oh well, they think that's what credit cards were made for.

I'm silently grinding my teeth.”

“I spent a lot of time when I got into backpacking researching what the right kind of gear was, then trying to find it at the cheapest price possible. I made a few mistakes (non-breathable raingear, cheap boots that disintegrated) but mostly I've been able to find cheap, good gear that gets the jobs done.”

“If I see someone with a cool new expensive piece of gear or clothes, I AM JEALOUS!!!

But so what. I am cheap, I don't like to be in debt, so I try to keep my spending under control. Usually I will buy something my kids can benefit from before I spend money on what I want. This past year I bought lots of camping and backpacking gear, which is mostly for MY hobby (am trying to infect the family though). I didn't go into debt, but I did spend some of my savings. I felt that it was worth it in this one situation. I wouldn't spend savings to go to the Bahamas, or redecorate, but I know a lot of people who would.

Don't spend time thinking about WHY other people spend money the way that they do. What you do works for you, so it is right for you. Enjoy your life on your own terms.”

“I used to get jealous because my little brother lived at home until he was like 25 so he could afford to buy half of REI. Talk about a gear hog! But now I have just as much if not more crap than he has.
Ü”

“I don't care, if you have the money use it, that's COOL! It's just been a weird evolution in my opinion. Tarps were going out of style when I started bp'ing... they are coming back now... Esbits are still here, can stoves are more popular than I can ever remember. I have a gtex shell I usually don't need, in fact there is not a single piece of gear I have now that is THAT much better than I had in the 70's or 80's... I guess that's my point... and to qualify I haven't done Everest or anything very extreme so there ya go”

“I went on a trip recently with people who coulda posed for gear ads - both older, single, no kids, good jobs, got the latest and greatest superduper stuff. Still I was surprised when one picked on my "old style" rucksack since there's nothing wrong with it. Another time a friend picked on my bargain priced white tights. (I did feel kinda silly in them no matter how cheap they were).

After years of using my sterno "stove" I recently upgraded to the pocket rocket, and used play money (MyPoints) to pay for it; as well as the fuel, a petzel zipka, and candle lantern w/cocoon. I use the same old backpack and 3 season sleeping bag although the bag's gettin' kinda thin. My brother kids me about my LLBean labels, but I only buy from LLB if I think I might use the guarantee, like for pieceacrap mega-expensive snowshoes, and I always check the factory store first - get all my smartwool socks there for $8/pair. Plus for about two years I got a third off (got my first kayak that way) so I've purchased more than I normally would have from LLB. Other than that, I shop the discount catalogs except I've been throwin' 'em in the trash before I even leave the post office because I just don't need one more piece of gear.”

“Yes, I've heard about that factory store and I'm Jealous as Hell, LOL. I've also heard a rumor that the Salvation Army in Freeport has Practically Brand New LL Bean returns...”

“I have a lot of high end stuff, but I use it more than most people. I'm buying new equipment for the weight savings, not the name. Its nice not having to carry the extra 10 lbs.

Boots are a nightmare for me. Like the boots that takes 500 miles to break in (I think that was me). I couldn't find the Mtn Trekkers (those work best for me), so I looked for something similar with support and thick tread, and ended up with the hard to break in Montrails. I also couldn't find a size 5, and this boot came in a size 5. Someone from another site found my Mtn Trekkers in my size at STP, so I bought 3 prs.

I tried Vasque lighter weight boots. The fit wasn't right, and it made my feet and ankles hurt. Haven't used them on the trail because they hurt just wearing them around town. I can't seem to find size 5 boots, the smallest most places carry is 6.

I forgot my boots on a trip last year, and had to drive 50+ miles to the nearest town. There wasn't much to choose from, so I got a pair of $25 kids boots. I felt every rock on the 13 miles in, the 8 mile dayhike, and the 13 miles out. I got blisters and my right ankle hurt for the next 4 weeks. One thing I haven't gone light on is my heavy leather boots, doesn't seem to work for me.

I've got 2 prs fleece pants. The 4 yr old Patagonia pants are still in good shape. The (don't remember name?) brand was cheap, and 3 months later the rear end seam was splitting. Sometimes you get what you pay for.

I always wanted a 4Runner. I bought a 2wd pickup instead and kept getting stuck on some of the dirt roads I drive. After 3 years I finally got my 4Runner. I could have put the $16K I spent on my truck towards my 4Runner. With 88K mi in 3 years, its got mostly freeway miles, gets off road more than most SUVs, and I love driving my truck! Works for me!”

“Thanks everyone. I started this thread in order to discuss, and by that, hopefully figure out what was bugging me, and I think I have it.

In my personal life, I have become pretty aware of the consumer culture we live in. I've opted out in some places, and for a long time, it seemed like backpacking was one of those places it just couldn't reach. After all, you can't market the woods, right? Silly of me, in hindsight. I guess I hadn't really been paying a lot of attention to the marketing trend until recently, and the NPR story set me off. My hobby is being taken over by the corporation! I get a little worked up sometimes.

Also, I generally get irritated when I'm told there is only one way to do something, and backpacking, for me, has always been a lot about improvisation. High-end, specialized gear takes some of that away, from my point of view; so in that way, I guess I am a bit of an anti-gear snob like violin suggested, but for different reasons. I prefer the sense of accomplishment that comes with having modified or created my gear, or at the very least, having paid next to nothing for it. There are exceptions, of course.

Personally, I couldn't really care less if someone looks down on me for what I carry, or makes fun of it. I actually kind of enjoy a good round of fun-makin'. I can give as good as get, in that sense :) I had introduced the idea of a "gear snob" as a way to get people to post, so I could get some feedback into this thread, but it kind of looks like I didn't need to.

Thanks for a good discussion everyone!”

“By the way, Snow Nymph, I'll let you know if I run across any size 5 boots at all. I'll keep an eye open. :)”

“Also, I generally get irritated when I'm told there is only one way to do something,...

Phaedrus
06:29:04 PM
04/18/02

Now you know how we feel.”

“Who is "we"?”

“Great thread. I dont agree when you say that "my hobby is being taken over by the corporation" though. Companies will search out and exploit any avenue they find profitable. That doesnt mean that THEY have taken anything over. They want to but if you dont pay they cant play.

I absolutely love gear catalogs. I actually called about 6-8 manufacturers and requested all their catalogs. Its fun to browse. I will only buy the gear I want when I need it.

I am in the process of tire shopping now. I have gone to 3 shops looking for a deal on what I want. I will buy when the price meets my budget and needs.

Marketing only works when we allow it to.

The flip side is that most folks buy all types of luxuries as soon as they can afford it. There is a lot to be said for a nice (dependable) car, a nice (structurally sound,well insulated,leak free) home and central air.

Spend it now cause when we die God and Satan dont want it. They want someting else.”

“I agree with Violin, I have yet to see a "gear snob" looking down at anyone else for what they're using. My observation is most of the attitude seems to come from those that are jealous.”

“I like good reliable gear that has been tested in the field. I always choose my purchases based on needs and the performance that it has been through. I don;t have the $$$to waste on replacing products in 3 -5 years. I want my stuff to last for a long, long time...as was said earlier...you get what you pay for...or as I like to say...its the price you pay , when you don't pay the price. Spending or not spending is a choice we all make everyday...but, value and benefits are intrinsic, they are individual...features are only meaningful if they meet a need. Better products, have more features and therefore meet a greater variety of needs. That's marketing 101. Spending higher dollars...sometimes is a necessity, depending on the needs of the individual...I use a stainless steel shovel that fold into itself and is in its own sheath, attaches to a daisy chain on the outside of my feature packed backpak...the shovel weighs 5 oz and costs 7.95...a plastic shovel...4oz, 2.99 (or less). no sheath, no attachment, can't fold it over. I spent more and got more...I got what I was looking for, not what you were looking for. We both own a shovel, your may break while shoveling load, mine could tear into someone chest as a weapon and won't break...Bottom line is we both can bury our poopy. CHOICE...its our right to choose and vote with our dollars...its all relative anyway.”

“4 years ago my Annual Gear Review edition from Backpacker was dog eared and worn out from multiple readings. This year I flipped through it about 3 times and haven't picked it up since. For me the fascination with gear is being being replaced with the desire to actually use the gear I have.

Someone made the comment (maybe Pathman) that he is jealous of those folks who do not have as many commitments. I know the feeling - and he is right. They are our choices and usually make us happy, but we need to balance them.

It usually hits me when I ponder a month-long hike and realize that I may not have a month off from work / family for the next 20 years! But that is my choice.

If I do have a mid-life crisis - I won't be in a Corvette with some perky co-ed. More than likely I will be sitting alone in the middle of the woods.”

“what kind of shovel is that? i don't like my plastic one. plus sheath for an once more is cool.”

“once = ounce”

“That stainless shovel is only five ounces?!”

“Well if a body turns up on the trail with obvious shovel wounds we will know who to look for.

too funny.”

“Phaedrus, finally getting back after a nasty bout with thunderstorms kept computer use to a minimum. What position do I take? As several have noted, it's their money so they can spend it any dang way they want. The only time that is a problem is when someone talks a different message than his or her purchases indicate. Spend $500 on a Gore-tex coat, I don't really care, but don't stand there in it lecturing about the evils of the petroleum industry. Nor do I want to hear your tales of woe about getting wet and cold on a camping trip if you tried to get by cheap with a garbage bag for a shelter.”

“I totally agree with Pekka. I've been on trips "I got these long long undies for $5", but they're freezing and have to get in their sleeping bag early. I pay the price for what works for me, and I'm happy "without" the extra weight. I'm out every weekend, so why be uncomfortable? And with the amount of use my gear gets, its a small price to pay.”

“On a recent bp trip with wanderer, I was pulling out some of my stuff to get to my longjohns and came across my candle lantern and my gerber multi tool. These are both items that I had purchased because they sounded to cool to pass up. I have never actually used either item while bping.
I have all of the gear I need to be comfortable in the woods, but I still look for more stuff. What is wrong with me, does REI have some kind of mind control device in the member cards they send out? Or is it just that advertising is so effective at making us want to have the stuff they are selling.
Oh well, enough of this, I need to get down to the gear store and see if they some more weight for me to carry around!! LOL!!”

“You could turn this discussion around and say 'look at all the choices we have, isn't it great!'”

“If you really think about it, raising the entry-level price to the hobby will keep the forests less crowded and keep the riffraff out.”

“Okay, I'll buy the "use what works for you" argument, but the "they're just jealous of my high-end gear" argument smacks of snobbishness. Personally, I could buy any gear I want. I've yet to pay the price for not paying the price, since I put careful consideration into each item.

Also, as for durability, if I can get a piece of equipment for one third of the price that lasts half as long, I end up coming out ahead.
If a close friend asked ME for advice, here's what I would say:
Do I advocate cheap gear? Yes, but only if you know what it is that you're buying, know its limitations, and are willing to adjust your technique to fit them. Do I advocate high-end gear? Yes, if you want to spend the money (and can afford it), know what it is that you're buying, and aren't getting features you'll never use.

For beginners, I would recommend specific research into specific gear, boots being most important. Does that mean that you should spend the most money on your boots? Heck no, you should do the most research on them.

Last point: If time is a big issue with you, I can see buying higher-end gear as a rule. The less-expensive gear requires weeding out the crap.”

“Violin is trying to get my goat. I'm not going for it!!!!

:)”

“Violin is on to something. Sometimes we get all misty eyed and wonder, "Wouldn't it be great if EVERYONE backpacked so they could enjoy the wilderness the way WE do?" Well, actually, no it wouldn't be great; it'd be a big, fetid mess. So if notions of needing expensive label gear is enough of a barrier to some folks to keep them home -- because they can't see through the marketing to realize they can hike in the woods with pretty inexpensive gear -- then it's a filter of sorts. And if carrying all the stuff to be "comfortable" by the standards of the average "civilized" couch lover is too heavy, so they stay on the chaise lounge on the backyard deck or in their RV at the developed campgrounds, that's another filter.

So when you run into some gawking tourist near the trailhead who starts asking questions about backpacking, just tell them it's horribly expensive, really uncomfortable and dirty, and you only do it because your psychiatric condition requires you to avoid people just like them. If they are still interested after that, you can tell them about TT and start the secret initiation.”

“LOL @ Tilt!”

“Pekka's trying to get my goat too.

Run, little goat, run!!!”

“If I ever see That Guy on the trail, you can beLIEVE I'm gonna run!”

“Hey Phaedrus, tried to email you an article about rumors of Lovelace up for sale, but the email in your profile bounced.”

“Aw, pekka, you don't have to work that hard. Just tell them about the scores of hikers that are eaten by bears every year. Then point out some prominent piece of gear on your pack and say you "found" it out in the woods on one of your hikes.

I've never had to even think about talking someone out of backpacking. Most people I know think I'm nuts to want to do it, including my wife.”

“Thanks, Pathman, I'll change it right now.

Cigna wanted to divest itself of Lovelace when I was there, too... Hmmmm. Is Martin Hickey still CEO?”

“I think the less interested weed themselves out.
My first trip was Ventana Wilderness and, believe me, my gear was probably the laughing stock of everyone we passed. However, we met a guy on the way out who made me look like a trail guide. We ended up babysitting him. That helped me get more serious about my gear. I try to buy the best stuff on discount. Mostly, I shop Sierra Trading Post.”

“Phaedrus, I always picture goats as gamboling. Just a pedantic thought.”

“Define rif raff”