When Gun Control Costs Lives

“Saying I have a gun is sort of like saying 'I have a dick'

I think we see your point biz”

“I own 6 guns and I have a conceiled weapon permit.

8)”

“Hey me too! Let's go shootin at stumps in the backcountry sometime, Mike!”

“Sounds like fun!!!!!

8)”

“lol”

“Wow, I was reconsidering that, and it's like a triple entendre... Don't know whether to laugh or shudder.”

“Get a good laugh!!!!!

8)”

“How about a shuddering laugh with a snort thrown in at the end for good measure?”

“Talk about your Twilight Zone, LOL!

ooooooooooooookay!

One Mo' Time For The West Coast!

Let me see if I've got this right... W---y submits that I exhibit a character flaw because I don't care about HIS pet issue as much as HE thinks I should?

Well, ain't that a royal #&%!$ on toast, LOLOLOLOL!

Sorry W, but the 2nd amendment debate simply does not eat away at me like it does you. Dems is da breaks. To say that this is indicative of a flaw in me is the silliest thing I've heard in a very long time.

Think about it:

It's YOUR pet issue; knock yourself out.”

“"All you need to start an asylum is an empty room and the right kind of people."

Eugene Pallette
My Man Godfrey (1936)”

“To quote:

"This is a backpacking forum and should ,therefore,support the Sierra Club.The SC is no different than any other taxless based org.,because the general tax payer provides(approx.30%) of the funds.
this comment of mine is not intendedto be hatefull,just fact.all large organizations,because of their tax status,sooner or later become overtaken by the extremes of the society."

You are correct, at some point organizations do become taken over by the extreme and the Sierra Club is no different. Their latest push for Wilderness (to exclude all other users except hikers...baring the pain they are putting on equestrians in Wilderness right now with weed free seed, etc) is perfect proof of that.

According to the 1964 Wilderness Bill there were three specific guidelines set for something to be declaired Wilderness. The current push for Wilderness in CA, UT, MT and AZ included areas which didn't fit two of three of the existing objectives in most of the cases (I am more than happy to be specific if you care for facts but for brevity's sake I will refrain). Sad but true, the extreme has taken over the Sierra Club as well.

I am a backpacker and recreationalist. Recreation, including hang gliding, climbing, mountain biking, boating, fishing (yes, the fringe groups want to eliminate high tech reels as well), hunting and equestrian use has a place on public land. The SC doesn't see it this way and want all land to themselves. I don't support the Sierra Club in any way, shape or form.

On topic: I am an NRA member.

PS - take a look at the Sierra Club's corp. financing partners. Funny, it consists of some of the groups they are now trying to exclude (talk about being in bed with the enemy)...REI being one (REI supports climbing and mountain biking, two things not in the Sierra Club's agenda). I wonder how long before these companies figure it out and pull funding?”

“My cat's breath smells like catfood.”

“I totally agree with the NRA on retaining the right to hold arms and extend that theme past its limits.However,I have problems when this org. doesn't extend its
personal freedom ideals to other rights,WIMHO are at least as, if not,
more important than guns.

As for my "tax beef";I'm sure the tax paying public would object if I were write transportation cost(4 pairs NB 803's ,each year) to get to my 11,000 ft. elev.church .later”

“Hey Tilt...would you take away my guns if you could based on what I've written in my various posts. Am I the person who would fill the asylum spoken of in your eloquent quote? I'm sorry I blew your cover as a chronic people-pleaser. I know you'd like to get us all together and sing kumbaya(sp?); however, your constant moderation is sickening to those of us that see no middle ground in a debate that effects a freedom important enough to be enumerated in the Bill of Rights.


For the record I have many pet issues, but if I recall this is a gun related thread is it not?

Take as much time as you need to compose a witty retort...”

“I needed a good laugh first thing!

Thank you!

8)”

“Too much time wasted on you already. Get in the last shot if you want.”

“I get it!!!!

8)”

“Guys maybe I'm missing something, but where do folks get this idea that all tax less based organizations are rolling in the dough and forcing higher taxes. Yes I understand that there are some hokey exceptions (i.e. Jackson's Rainbow Coalition) and they really catch the media's eye. And I’m not talking about the “send me money now and I’ll heal ya” crowd. In my local community the churches and several other organizations help those in need very efficiently and effectively. Truly giving much more than they receive. Yes, again there are fat cats, those who break and bend the rules for their own gain. But the majority helps by taking the primary responsibility off the state and fed gov't to provide. And yes ministers do pay taxes and are forced to file as a self-employed paying as much as 30 to 50%. Please tell me if I am missing something.”

“Just as with any political or social issue the only voices that ring the loudest are the extremists of both sides. NRA and Guns Inc. Neither will give ground.”

“OAK LAKE, Man. (CP) -- The Manitoba man who successfully registered his soldering gun as a firearm to protest new federal gun laws will not be charged by police.

The RCMP confirmed Saturday that Brian Buckley is off the hook as far as they're concerned.

Buckley said a Mountie staff sergeant delivered the news.

"He said no public good could come out of charging me," Buckley said. "He said he wasn't going to give in to political pressure and that he was doing what he thought was right."

Last Christmas, Buckley, who opposes the new gun laws requiring all firearms to be registered by 2003, mailed his registration form back to the government with information from his soldering and heat guns on it.

The "guns" were registered in the national database and Buckley received certificates with Black & Decker and Weller listed as the makers and soldering gun and heat gun listed as the type.

Under the Criminal Code, he could have gone to jail for up to five years for providing false information to obtain a firearm registration certificate.

David Austin, a spokesman for the federal Canadian Firearms Centre, said the decision whether charge Buckley was up to the RCMP and the centre is not concerned about any precedent the outcome might set.

"It's a police matter and the police have to do the investigating. It is up to the police and the Crown whether to lay charges," Austin said. "I think that most people were surprised by Mr. Buckley's actions and disgusted at the waste of taxpayer's dollars.

http://www.canoe.ca/CNEWSWeirdNews0204/13_gun-cp.html”

“living by the rules is one thing.trying to live, by the exceptions to the rules, is crazy.
the tax bibles' first page defines the rule.then, the other hundreds of pages explain how you can become an exception.the fact, that it is as it is,is bad enough,but now,it has become standard procedure to follow along.
check out the Cathaholic churchs new pages in their rule book.
as with all big orgs.,they write and live by their own rules.you're indirectly paying for hypocrites to
become
exceptions to Child Abuse LAWS.
Pay On.”

“Exception to the rules? Sorry dude I'm not a part of any denomination. Like I said the majority of charitable orgs are exceptions to what makes the front page. I was never saying that hypocrites didn't exist. Nevertheless it is my responsibility to make sure my contributions (both money and time) to an org, group, or my individual activity are truly helping those in need. Primarily orgs that make the difference are not led by Fat cats nor do they receive any national or even local attention.”

“So let me see what you're saying WL. Tilt doesn't have a strong postition on gun control so that makes him weak?

That is one brilliant argument. Oh wait, you're holding the gun.

My uncle is a cop and he is neither for the NRA or against it. Some people don't feel the need to constantly flex their muscles for no good reason.”

“Although yelling at someone 'you're weak because you don't have an opinion' is a pretty good way to gain attention.”

“note to self:

Don't piss Biz off!”

“A LITTLE GUN HISTORY
In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------
In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------
Germany established gun control in 1938. From 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------
China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------
Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------
Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------
Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million 'educated' people,unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
-----------------------------
Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56million.
------------------------------
It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by new laws to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by their own government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500million. The first year results are now in:

Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent)!

In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent. Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not, and criminals still possess their guns! While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, since criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed. There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the ELDERLY.

Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in successfully ridding Australian society of guns.

The Australian experience and the other historical facts above prove it. You won't see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians disseminating this information. Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens.

Take note my fellow Americans, before it's too late! The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of this history lesson. With guns, we are 'citizens'; without them, we are 'subjects'.

During WWII, the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew most Americans were ARMED!

If you value your freedom, please spread this anti-gun control message to all of your friends.”

“The Empire of Japan never had a chance to successfully invade the U.S. regardless of maw and paw havin' a shotgun leanin' against the wall behind the door.”

“日本の帝国は決してドアの後ろでmawにかかわらず首尾よく米国に侵入して、ひっかく機会〔可能性〕に壁に対する散弾銃傾向を持たせませんでした”

“hey.. just a forwarded email.. admittedly it is propaganda in nature... but still found it interesting..”

“Nobody forced Japan to sign a treaty. Knowing they had no chance in the states, they didn't have a retaliation for "the" bomb. If we had a weak point, they could have exploited it. We didn't, so they didn't.”

“.
last edited: 2/14/08 10:57:40 AM”

“.
last edited: 2/14/08 10:57:50 AM”

“Japan brought a knife to a gun fight.
last edited: 2/14/08 10:59:01 AM”

“I have guns left out of the safe so I can guard the safe. You know how hard guns are to get with all these laws. Every drug dealer I ask said would it'd take atleast ten minutes.”

“The U.S. had ten times the industrial capacity of Japan.

Crazy Samurai bastards.....”

“Well gun control is one thing - but there's a lot of misplaced history lessons there.

http://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/ausguns.asp
last edited: 2/14/08 11:28:59 AM”

“inconvenient truth.. -- thank you.. i usually check out snopes.. but hey.. i didnt this time..

yup yup.. isnt that how it usually is.. people kinda twist the facts to make their point..

thanks for the clarification.. :)”

“Well lets look at these 3.

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Germany established gun control in 1938. From 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------
China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.


To say that some minor gun laws in these countries, which probably took guns about of the hands of about three people, could have prevented collectivization in the USSR, WW2 and the holocaust and the changeover to communism in China is a stretch.

A brief google showed how many times this crap is repeated all over the internet though.”

“To say that some minor gun laws in these countries, which probably took guns about of the hands of about three people,

I take it you've never been in these countries?”

“Thank goodness anti-gun groups don't skew facts or figures to fit their agenda. That would be bad.”

“Be truthful Sarge - god is watching you.”

“nice dodge”

“2 out of 3.
last edited: 2/14/08 12:45:18 PM”

“I'm getting a little tired of this...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/niu_shooting;_ylt=Aj38gp1JUSa8wJxBpNrmxi.s0NUE”

“outlaw guns (on campus), and only the outlaws ....”

“If the students were armed, this would have never happened. A couple hundred against one, there would have been nothing left.”

“I wonder when the libbies will learn.”

“libbies learn??? Not a chance. Twist maybe, but learn, never.”

“If only they had your wide-range of experience of life Sarge - well if only they could invent your wide range of experience of life.”

“Academic studies do show when the government enacts laws that take away some of the guns held by honest citizens, violent crime and murders go up. So why would anyone want to pass a law that just disarms potential victims.

In his books Point Blank: Guns and Violence in America and Targeting Guns, Professor Kleck of Florida State reports that firearms are used defensively 2.5 millions times per year, dwarfing offensive uses by criminals. Kleck says that 25 to 75 lives are saved by guns for every life lost by a gun. The medical costs saved by the defensive use of guns are 15 times greater than the costs caused by criminal use of firearms, according to Kleck.”