CONTROVERSIAL Thread Ahead - Who BAckpa cks?

“(2), but wish it was (3) or (4).

There are a lot of knowledeable people who frequent this site along with some beginners. Searching old threads can reveal a lot of gear information. Also, the total number of bag nights "lifetime" may be a better measure of experience than bag nites per year.

Like with anything on-line, you have to sort out the good information from the bad, whether it is news, history, politics, or whatever.

By the way--not offended and hope you aren't either.”

“And I really don't want to take a bunch of overweights into the woods.”

“I am Sam, Sam I am, I like Green eggs and Ham.
I am Nigal, Nigal I am, I like Hiking but it's not who I am.


Apologies to Dr Seuss.”

“Dat's right! and we want the Social Security Numbers of anyone who's actually SEEN you backpacking, LOL

"References available on Request", eh, Vann? <VBG>”

“I am a small town girl gone city girl. When I was a child I went backpacking with my family at least twice a month in the summer. But I haven't been on an overnight trip for years. I came to this site in hopes that I would find some advice and maybe learn something in the process.

I do not take offence to the question, but know that I will not give advice on a subject I have only "book knowledge" about.

I have to say that I have no bagnights this year, but I dream of them. As soon as I find someone to BP with me (I just moved to a new place) then I will aquire more experience.

And for all of you who do offer advice, thank you.”

“Run!”

“18 nights last year, 35 the year before, should "bag" 35 to 40 this year. The number of nights I can actually be backpacking is unfortunately affected by job duties.

I have been backpacking for 20 years (as of this past March). My question to the "professor" who started this thread is this: "How do you get to be an expert?" Every single time I go backpacking I learn something. While I believe I have experience (approximately 250 +/- "bag" nights; I can read a map; I have hiked mountains; forest; plains; deserts; snow; rain; sleet; freezing temps, etc. etc etc.), I would never, upon never, claim to be an expert. I have found that almost every time I have hiked with a "newbie", I learn (or re-learn) something. I enjoy every single moment of my time on the trail and engage in this activity solely for the experience,,,,,not to become experienced.”

“The lower end of 2 for me. But I only do it to justify buying all the cool gear.”

“...and meeting girls of course. This year I think I'll skip the bag nights and just put a bunch of outdoorsy stickers on my car.”

“uh oh. I guess "Support Search and Rescue: GET LOST!" qualifies as 'outdoorsy', LOL”

“You know, even advice from an expert with decades of experience and years of accumulated bag nights can be wrong or innapropriate depending on your experience level, situation, gear combination, intended use, personal preferences, preferred philosophy, style, etc, etc. And of course there is the occasional circumstance when no ammount of experience can overcome poor judgement. And I know some with unquestionable experience who don't keep their knowledge current. I'm not referring specifically to anyone here or even specifically to this site. Caveat emptor in all things, in all aspects of life. References and credentials mean nothing to me. Provide me with accurate, verifiable information and support it with evidence and sound reasoning. My own judgement will do the rest.

Good advice is good advice no matter who it comes from. And bad advice is bad advice no matter who it comes from. Period.”

“THE GOV'T MAY HAVE A GRANT ---I'VE HEARD OF A STUDY TO CONSIDER ADDING ANOTHER LANE TO THE JMT.”

“Last year was a sad one for me. I only managed four overnight trips and didn't get out of category (1). But I had significant surgery twice... once for a tumor that was making me pretty sick, so I did OK considering.
The year before I was in category "3" and hiked a few hundred miles while doing so.

I must say I agree with Chili a few posts up. The flip side is that I've met people who spent a lot more time out than I did who I learned very little from (their approach didn't fit mine). I don't think there is any amount of nights or mileage that guarantees that someone is or isn't an authority. Mostly, you have to think for yourself and find out how useful other people's remarks are to you.

One example: There is someone I know of (not on this thread) who does ultright backpacking on pretty flat stretches and loves to burn the miles. He also backpacks well south of me. I am in awe of what he knows... his ingenuity and survival skills are amazing. Nonetheless, I wouldn't take most of his gear recommendations because he is up to something very different than I am.”

“You wouldn't want my advice on gear, because I just use what works for me and do whatever it takes to stay alive in the wilderness for 6-7 days at a time.
I agree with the folks who say, "You show me yours, I'll show you mine."
This thread should be entitled "Justify yourself to Wanderer".”

“Don't let your guard down with wanderer! I tell ya, if you do even for a moment, your credit cards will be over limit, the cat will be walking funny, and the toilet will be hopelessly backed up. Trust me, I know!




LOL!!!”

“IMHO Chilli and Skullcap pretty much put this in perspective. A "backpacker" can be many differant things to differant people. I have been hiking and backpacking for about 32 of my thirty eight years. I can go to a place I have been to many times and discover something new. I can learn from people that are going on their first overnighter. Some people hike for 18 to 20 mile days. Some perfer 3 or 4 mile days. Which one is a backpacker? They both can be. None of us are exactly alike, therefore we hike our own hikes. We went on a recent trip to an area I know like the back of my hand and a guy (HogOnIce) that had never been to the area taught me a lot about some of the wildflowers there. A backpacker is someone that can accept the expertise and knowledge from a fellow backpacker. A backpacker is someone that can read the phrase " I don't own this land I am only borrowing it from my childrens children" and understand what it means.

BAMA”

“WOO HOO Bama tellin' it like it really is!”

“I dig that phrase.

Go BAMA, go BAMA!”

“Very well said, Bama. We are indeed just "borrowing" this land. And IMHO, you are absolutely correct in defining a "backpacker" as someone who understands that phrase.

Over the years, I have been fortunate to meet alot of great people on the trail (along with a few not so great ones). As I look back and reflect upon how I would define "backpackers" among all of that group, I am convinced that your definition is squarely on point.”

“Yes. The gods of backpacking have created a special priestly class whose responsibility it is to dispense with the knowledge of the ages. "There is only one correct path to the true backpacking ethic," says God. And so it is.

I read trailtalk so that I might grasp some aspect of this truth from Reverend Bacpac and Father Nigal.

But seriously, During the past week and half, I've dayhiked 50+ miles and helped build a mile of local trail. If I took the percentage of miles I hike during a year and divided it into dayhiking vs. backpacking, dayhiking would win by a whole lot.

So, I guess since I haven't set fire to a Pepsi can or chowed down on a Mountain House beef stew in the past week anything I post will be suspect.”

“Perhaps suspect in any postings you make regarding setting fire to Pepsi cans or chowing down on Mountain House beef stew....LOL

I think the observation Wanderer was trying to make is that that there are so few backpacking related topics on TT that one could assume that many posters who contribute here have very little backpacking knowledge. My own observation is that there is a fair mixture of experience, a few posers, a few trolls, and very few people here who are obsessed with buying and using the latest and greatest toys. Because the people here aren't as gear crazy as many on some other sites, I think it's fair to say that gear questions are better answered elseware. As more people here seem to be interested in actually getting outdoors, this is probably a good place to ask about locations etc.

As for bag nights relating to experience, I suppose it's valid but quantity still doesn't make up for quality. I think that anytime someone straps on a backpack in the woods, they are a "backpacker".”

“Before I posted here for the first time I spent a great deal of time reading preevious posts and searching old threads to understand who seemed fairly knowledgable and who were consistent posters. You can easily get an idea of who knows what they are talking about. People post pictures, join hikes, have websites, participate in constructive conversation, etc.

Bounce it off of what you already know and it turns into learning.

For the record, I didn't have many bag nights last year. I will probably never have as many as I would like.”

“I read this site for the little pearls that some of the wits throw on here. Most of it is drivel.”

“I have to admit I haven't spent nearly as many bag nights as I'd like in years (average of 10 in last 15 years), but some of us have family and other considerations. I only got 2 weeks vacation a year until 12 years ago when it was upped to 3, with no personal or sick time, and it's hard to justify nights away, though that's changing now that my boys are older. I do get in over 500 to 1000 miles a year trail time all the same, lots of great dayhike opportunities in the northeast. I can be at Mt. Monadnock in 3 hours, up and down in the same day, and home again at night, so nights out aren't a good standard to follow. I have posted a lot over the last year, but everything I do post is from either my questions, or IMHO. I don't thinks time spent on trail is always that good a guide either since I did get out more before marriage/kids and didn't ultralight then. I did however have to "help" quite a few people that had run out of food( I carry twice as much as I plan on being out for), courted hypothermia(I only use wool or synthetics for warmth, and again , carry spares),lost shelter or bags (I love the folks who claim their down bag never gets wet, my fiberfill sure has!), or just plain got lost ( I carry 2 compasses and 2 maps, I even found one guy using a handout roadmap in the Whites).Everybody has to find their own styles, we're all different and I don't think mine is the only way, just my way. Sadly, my state has a great place for overnights, about 400 miles of shoreline, but camping out is forbidden on all of it, you'd be amazed at what's there for dayhike opportunities though!”

“After a while you just get to knowing who knows what they’re talking about and who is simply a gearhead. Many times the empty can rattles the most and it’s the quiet ones you have to really pay attention to. I don’t drop names much but I have hiked with two people who I see a quality in I see nowhere else. LeSubtil and Budder. If you just sit back and watch these two you will notice they aren’t spending time out there, they are living in the woods for the time they are out. I don’t know if I’d call it trail confidence or what but it’s a special quality and I always come away from a hike with them having learned something new. Pay attention to these two and you will learn all you need to know.”

“If this site is a forum on which backpacking is the prime subject,common interest peripheral to back packing should exist.really what % of the people in this country (with some frequency)carry their life on their backs to experience that (what ever) it is they are looking for. don't take this lightly,with this amazing media on which we meet,and at least a,even if small, gravity between those with, some what,like view points,not only walking through nature,but all aspects of our time can be discussed.yes,the common polarization of our times dominates many threads.oft times,the two ends of the spectrum,only, get heard.still we are very lucky to have this experience and should try to refine and confine it enough to keep cr@p like you're reading now,off of this site”

“As far as experience goes Madman and I met an older dude on the AT approach trail who claimed he's been hiking for 30+ years. Wow, that's great! Good for you.

He then went on to tell us white gas won't burn below 2500 feet and internal frame packs can't handle loads over 20 lbs.

Uhhhhh, thanks for the tip dude.”

“Who is EVER able to get out as much as they like?

Very few and I feel blessed I got out as much as did in the last few years.”

“Bama,

I think what you posted has significant merit. Backpacking to me is about continuos learning and patience to accept our fellow backpackers' as they are, we are afterall - human, and fallible at that.

One thing that the Trail Talk hikes have taught me (brought me)is "unconditional acceptance" into a community of folks I am proud to be part of.

I read the posts for trips, find one that suits me, make a plan and show up. I have yet to be on a TT hike I did not enjoy or learn something from someone, and hopefully, may have passed on a "wit of wisdom" of my own at times..

Y'all are great people..thanks BAMA for saying it like it is!

Tex”

“Does it really matter how many bag nights you have? Does it matter how many miles you have done in a day? What matters is your competence and being prepared for situations that could arise. As far as this site is concerned, there are prolly a lot of people here who do not backpack, but it doesn't matter. I've been on this site since Jan and if it was all about gear and trails and trips, I would have been gone a long time ago (I get Backpacker magazine in the mail once a month). The banter on politics, welfare & gun control are fairly interesting & mostly funny. The thing I love most about backpacking is that there is no competitive edge to it as in other sports (climbing, kayaking, etc.) When you go backpacking you walk. It doesn't matter if you go ultralight or superheavy, or internal frame of external frame, or heavy boots or trail runners, or long mile days or short mile days. As long as you are properly outfitted for your trip, you'll be okay. So Wanderer maybe you should create a trail talk forum for elite back packers and you guys could talk about how many bag nights you've had and what type of gear is the best and nothing else. I have a feeling it will be a damn lonely site.”

“i want to go to los reyes!

yum!”

“just to stir the pot a little...

this thread was started at 8:10 on friday evening. why weren't YOU BACKPACKING???

loser...”

“I was backpacking!!!!!!

8)”

“so was i.

that was my point, dude.”

“YES!!!!!!!

Backpacking ROCKS any time even if its in the rain!!!

8)”

“Hey Rad, I wasn't able to go this weekend, but I am going next weekend and the next. I haven't heard from you in a while. Ya wanna go this coming weekend?”

“yep. there was a bit o' rain, this weekend.

i guess that it could have been 5:10, wanderer's time. he definately acts like he's a kalifornian. he still should have been hiking, though.

isn't this the same putz that blew a wad over tarpy's d!&k munching crack babies?”

“i'll email you, great-white-name-is-too-dammed-long-sherpa.”

“Does it matter? You know my real name anyway.”

“that's it!

no more attempts at humor, for me!”

“LMFAO!!!!!


8)”

“Man, some of you folks take yourselves WAY too serious....talk about over analyzing stuff......






I'll let the "he's a kalifornian" crack pass, what can you expect from a guy who thinks of himself as a wizard......



thats a joke son..........”

“Wanderer still hasn't anted up.
You start a thread, you tell us first.”

“I suddenly feel compelled to let you all know that the reason I'm home right now is I am packing for a 5 day wilderness trip tomorrow.......................






OK, all you folks that weren't out backpacking this weekend get your cards pulled, plus you can't use the secret handshake for two weeks, or your till next overnighter, which ever comes first.





Thats a joke, son..........”

“5 days that sounds great!!!!

Where at?

8)”

“We're looking at the Lava Beds National Monument or the Trinity's (won't actually know till tomorrow morning, the weather will decide) The 5 day trips are more for fun then the 10 day (lots of work with the kids, role play, groups, solos) If we go to the Lava Beds, we can go caving when it rains and snows. The Trinity's would be back packing the whole 5 days, the Lava Beds would be a base camp, and then going caving each day from base.

Snow level has been around 3000' the last day or two....I'm ready for summer!!!!!”

“That sounds like a blast I wish I could go.

8)”

“OK, all you folks that weren't out backpacking this weekend get your cards pulled, plus you can't use the secret handshake for two weeks, or your till next overnighter, which ever comes first.





Thats a joke, son.........."
mtnsteve
06:31:16 PM
04/28/02

Do I get any points for dayhiking? I really like the handshake. Maybe you could just take a corner off the card, you know, just this one time? Please??? Whatta ya say? Huh? Pretty please???”

“Dayhiking??????

8|”

“thanks, daddy-o!”