Packing while you're backpacking?

“I've always been afraid of an'overly tree hugged tree 'falling on me.”

“ROFL!!!!”

“Actually, I can't think of anyone I know who told me that a gun saved his ro her life (outside the military and law enforcement situations). I have had times where I felt safer because of a gun... i haven't fired or carried one in many many years.

I do know of people who were killed or injured by guns.”

“You are more likely to commit suicide than die of a homicide! Maybe you should carry prozac dood”

“Whoa, whoa, whoa, there Rugerman!

The most important thing I've read of your posts is that you're a newby. A whiney, skeerdy, bag wetting newby.

Listen, greenhorn. The backcountry is the LAST place you should be concerned about being... uh... "attacked"(?).

You shoulda taken up bp'ing years ago so's you wouldn't of been sitting before the TV getting yer head filled by fiction that dramatizes things that go bump in the night.

I was raised in an environment in which firearms played a big part. Me, my parents, and my brothers hunted almost year round.

Realize this:
When hunting, one's focus is first and foremost on the firearm. We, as hunters, are some of the most safety conscience animals to be found.

Now this:
When backpacking with a firearm, the firearm still demands the lions share of your focus. It's a safety thing. How can one possibly get adequate enjoyment from backpacking when his focus is on the potential death that bounces only inches away from quite vital organs? He can't - unless he turns his focus away from the firearm. He certainly can't do that, tho - right? PLEASE agree with me on this point - lest you reveal yourself as someone who does not practice adequate gun safety, and thus has absolutely no business even being in the same room with a gun.

Do the numbers:
The likelihood of hurting yourself or someone else with your gun are FAR GREATER than the likelihood that you will need it to protect yourself in the backcountry. Far greater. Faaaaaaar, faaaaaaar greater.

Admit this:
You pack a gun in the backcountry not for "protection", but instead, you pack one strictly for egotistical reasons - it makes you feel "tough". Don't insult the backcountry experts here at TT with the claim that you pack heat for "protection". We've spent far too many safe and snug nights (and quite a few "close calls" of which we survived) to sit agreeably and politely nod our heads as you try to lecture us on the virtues of bringing firearms into OUR backcountry, and thus endangering not only yourself, be us and ours.

Where do you live?
I can lend you a deer rifle if you'd like. Or I can lend you my spare backpack - but, seeing how there's a time and place for everything, I would never lend them both at once...”

“I thought you said overly hung tree!”

“The likely character of someone you chance upon improves greatly the further you are from the nearest road and the higher the climb required to reach the area.”

“I occasionally take one, not often. In 15 or so years I've only run into one nut and he was on horseback. My biggest reason to take one in was so I didn't leave it in the truck to get stolen.”

“I carry a firearm to defend myself against all those idiots that carry a firearm while backpacking.”

“Cool! The Patsy Cline Defense!

I'm crazy for tryin'
Crazy for cryin'
And I'm crazy
For lovin' you”

“Father Goose,

You should check your facts before you say that carrying in a State or National Park is illegal.

As for the rest of you I see some of your points and will take it under consideration. As I've said in my profile I'm a hunter first and a backpacker second and a fairly new backpacker at that. You also have to realize not all 50 states are equal when it comes to laws/backpacking opportunities and situations one might encounter in the wilderness. Also I don't backpack like alot of you backpack. Although I may someday. I usually backpack to get me where I want to go hunting. Other than that I backpack to find new hunting grounds deep in the woods where other hunters would never venture. Maybe this is the wrong website for me but I do find you people interesting to say the least.”

“Welcome to the nut-house.”

“rugerman,,,,not everyone agreed with you,,,,but it would appear that a lot of people read your post...

while you might not have the approval of the audience, you do have the opportunity of the forum”

“Rugerman - What do you hunt? I would not enjoy hauling big game out from deep in the woods.”

“Can we paint your toenails???

You never answered the question!!!”

“Oh sure, change your story. Now you kill animals not people.”

“Maybe he's a hulk and he can carry huge elk like nothing!?”

“One of these days there is going to be a shooting/killing in the woods and the cops are going to start searching backpacks and find somebody with a gun and the gun toting backpackers are gonna frame themselves for murder.

Won't that be funny!!
HAHAHA!!!”

“Ruger, old buddy, let me clarify. Unless you have a special hunting permit for a specified date on a particular piece of state or federal land, it is illegal to carry a firearm on said property. John Q. Non-hunting Public is forbidden from doing so by state and federal law.
Better?”

“When I am bping with my Army unit, or do they call that patrolling, I carry an M-16. Oddly enough, when I am bping just for fun I don't carry any kind of gun. The biggest weapon I have is a Buck pocket knife with a 2" blade, not what you would call dangerous.
If you are conifident in yourself, and careful and knowledgable about critters, you do not need to worry about getting attacked by an animal.
As for the weirdo people, I have found that the further away from the road you get and the steeper the trail, the fewer people you see at all, let alone some freak out to get you. It would just be to much work for the freak.
My advice: Pack far, Pack high, and never leave your car at the trailhead unless you have to.
Happy Hiking!!”

“...you never know what kind of weirdo you might run into miles from the nearest road."

Most people you find that far in the woods are hunters or people like us. Are callin' us wierdos???”

“I seriously need to spellcheck and proofread more ofter prior to posting. A fewe days ago, Ms.lizs lumped me in with Mr.IceTea regarding my poor grammar...that just AIN'T fair!!!”

“Me and Radagast ran into the wierdest sonofab1tch on the AT. Chip Leonard. Not once did I feel I needed a gun. Even when he got his wierdest.”

“What Gojo said.”

“I don't care if people carry a firearm or not. I just don't want them waving it around or telling me they are packing and asking if it is OK with me.

We know what happens when you give an honest answer.

Can I bring a gun? No
Can I bring a dog? No
Can I smoke Pot? No
Can I share your beer? No
Can I bring a friend? Is she good looking?


In everyone of the above scenarios the honest answer is always the wrong answer so why ask?”

“but when I read Gojo's post, I fell into a stupor. What magnificant writing!!! and with such eloquence and panache`.

Again...what Gojo said...

Or as Joe Don Baker said..."walk softly and carry a big Stick"...if you need a good big stik...let me know...I just HAPPEN to know a good hiking stik crafter.”

“I vote Gojo as the official spokesperson.”

“I personally can't stand the putz but, Bill Mare said the other night, "Charelton Hestan has started his third term as president of the NRA, which is interesting because the term limit is only two terms. They changed their constitution so that Charelton could stay on for another term. Hmmmm, they changed their constitution...so a constitution can be changed then?"

A total a@@ but it made me laugh anyhow. Heehee! At least libs are good for laughing at! 8)”

“Nigal, I think they call it an amendment, but I am not sure. I was smoking pot during civics class.”

“"Are callin' us wierdos???"

are you saying we aren't wierdos? do we look sane to you? i for one know that i'm not not a wierdo ; )”

“Hey I am weird and I am crazy!

8)”

“People think I'm wierd but I think I'm just a reglar dude.”

“Rugerman, the following is NOT made as a suggestion that TT is not the place for this discussion, just pointing you toward another forum where this topic is discussed:

in the 'community'component of (dare I admit I've been unfaithful to TT) backpacker.com, find the gear discussion section and look for the thread on carrying techniques while backpacking. It is a long thread that has generally avoided the political and values rants, and name calling, and kept to pragmatic issues. Posters include cops, lawyers, hunters, and other experienced gun owners and users, as well as queries from bping newbies and gun newbies.

Here, you have to be ready to take it from all sides, whether it's guns or jello that floats your boat.”

“I hiked with this dood and it wasn't until the 3rd time that I found out he'd been carrying a 9mm with him on all the trips. Heck, I didn't know what to think, but shooting off some rounds sure made the whole "packing while backpacking" more enjoyable.”

“especially after 3 cups of coffee and an egg mcmuffin. 9:30 in the morning rolls around really fast.”

“WWoo!!!I've been looking for my pipe for three hours.”

“9mm is very small, Buddur. Surely you could find a better-endowed "packing partner"?”

“I don't think I'd hike in Grizzly country without a gun cause I'll be honest with yall. Them big b@stards scare me.
With that in mind I think the best thing for me would be to not hike in Grizzly country and not carry a gun.
Call me a pu$$y if you want but that's just me.”

“Hey Pekka, there was a person at that particular URL purporting to be a prosecutor of some sort who advocated a course of "don't ask -- don't tell" when in a situation where 'carrying' was unlawful yet desired. I wondered 'aloud' as to whether this was a violation of his oath as an officer of the court, but answer came there none.

<?>”

“Walkindude, I think you are prolly right in your "pu$$y" decision. The kind of gun you would have to pack to get the Grizzly down right away, is not the kind of gun you would want to bring on a long walking trip.”

“Sooooooo... legal advice is usually worth what you pay for it, <G>.”

“I've heard only a 12-gauge will bring down a bear.

If you have time to use the thing. They say sometime all you see is a blur before the bear is on you.

I wouldn't hike in griz country unless I was in a group of at least five. Bears won't challenge that many people.”

“Wouldn't just the "sound" of a gunshot be a good deterent for bear than a bullet to the face/torso?”

“A .45 with hydroshock hollow points WILL stop a grizzly, if used properly.

It's a guess on my part, but each round would take out a chunk of flesh the size of two grapefruit. I can't believe that even a grizzly has that to spare.”

“I've decided I am a hunter,ever seen I got a gun.Still haven't found it--kids probably got it in the back yard.MY pipes..........”

“Carry if you want to - don't if you don't. If you brak the law in the process be prepared to pay the price. A handgun is not for protection from bears, it's to make the person carring feel powerful. I always assume anyone I meet in the sticks may be packing. They should assume the same about me. No one will know unless it counts.”

“Tilt, can't vouch for anyone on any thread, though it may have been a case of pragmatics based on real world experience rather than legal advice. I take it all with many grains of salt.

Phaedrus, 'used properly' is quite a caveat. Be careful about using data/observations on the effects of certain bullets/loads on humans to extrapolate effects on grizzlies or other large animals. The effects of a .45 Hydroshok load will be much different because of pelt, skin thickness, fat layers, muscle mass, bone strength, etc. It certainly is unlikely to penetrate a grizzly skull. Also, a pound of flesh taken from a grizzly is much smaller in proportion than a pound of flesh taken from a human. Not that it matters--the bear will be way too pi$$ed off to notice in the few seconds it takes to separate your head from your torso with a sweep of its paw. It doesn't bring you back to life if the bear dies an hour or a day later.

Even with humans, many hollowpoint loads such as Hydroshoks do not expand or penetrate to bench standards when encountering heavy clothing, such as thick winter coats, where fabric plugs the hollow and limits or distorts expansion characteristics. Also, compare the mass of a 12-gauge slug to the mass of a .45 cal. bullet and you will see why the former has more likelihood of success (though still a chancy proposition on a charging grizzly) if you can manage to get a shot off that hits a vital zone. Now if you are really steady and a fine shot, you can always try to put one through an eye socket at just the right angle --- yeah, sure, that's the plan.

Walkindude has the right idea. Best way to not have to worry about a grizzly is to not hike in the grizzly's backyard. But if you do, there are other things to try first rather than pack heat as a first resort.”

“Do you think a griz is gonna run for cover at every clap of thunder? I would suspect that a griz is gonna be anything but gun shy.

Phaedrus -
Your assumption would be valid, indeed, if you could get a 1200 lb beast to stop on a dime from a 40 mph sprint so's you can draw a careful bead betwixt his or her eyes...

Besides...
how dare any hiker enter the domain of such a magnificent animal with the intention of killing it. He was there first - you are a visitor. You are taking a chance. Enjoy.

And what about the two guys that were bugling elk in MT last season? They were concealed, armed with high powered rifles, and poised to kill. Nonetheless, they were mauled by a mama bear that literally came out of nowhere. A backpacker is at the whim of the bear - armed or nay.

The best way to protect yourself in bear country is to let them know you're there - IMO. ie, DO NOT walk upwind (again, IMO), make noise, etc. I don't mind walking upwind when Belle is with me, tho - she's got a "perty good smeller I gess".”

“Good god, ya'll.

Having never shot a grizzly, I'll capitulate to your more thorough knowledge of things gun-related. My assumptions were coming from a demonstration I saw on ballistic gel contained in a clear plastic container. Not a good equivalence, I guess, but it sure was impressive!

I recently watched a program on a group of people who live in the alaskan wilderness, and the .45 was their handgun of choice for bears. I didn't hear any of them say they'd used it, though.”

“Gojo is right. I haven't done any back country backpacking. But I grew up in Montana and it is wise to have the base knowledge just for the fact that one lives here. The best way to protect yourself from a Grizzly is to let him/her know you are there. I assume a backpacker that carries a gun is carrying a handgun and a handgun is not going to stop any mad Grizzlies. If you are packing while hunting that is a different story and I would assume that you would be spying the animal you are hunting . . . before he is spying you.”