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Well, I guess I just want to share this and get it off my chest because it's bugging me.

When I left the house this morning I saw that someone had left a crushed snapping turtle on my front porch; it was lying on a plastic bag. It is a very large one, 40 - 45cm across and it's shell is ripped open and guts are coming out of its back.

I can't imagine it being a joke, neither by my students nor by my neighbours and friends. My only thought is that whoever it was was on his way to work, knows I'm a hunter and hoped I would finish it off. They (the turtles, that is) are mating now and the rivers are overflowing here in southwestern Quebec and northern New York State. Turtles are often killed, or moved by motorists as they cross the road in search of amphibian love. I always stop and move them.

I knew I didn't have time to take care of it because most of the roads are flooded and I would be driving about 50km or 30 mi. to get to work if I didn't want to take a chnance and try to drive directly to work (15km) and have to turn around. Well, one of my colleagues said the highway was still open and I didn't have a class second period (now) and so I decided to drive home and do the job. When I got just out of the village the highway department were closing the road and I'm not prepared to do an extra 100km before lunch to kill the poor creature.

Just wanted to share.
gremlin
10:08:30 AM
6/12/02

That sucks.. from what you said, it dosen't sound like a sick joke, it was probably left by somebody who thought you'd know what to do with it.

I hate coming across hurt animals like that, it really, really breaks my heart. My sympathies are with you.
Artex
10:12:18 AM
6/12/02

Hurry and put it out of its misery!
roseymonster
10:53:35 AM
6/12/02

That sucks!

8(
Crazy Mike Backpacks
11:28:35 AM
6/12/02

Not a bummer, but........
Thanks, guys:

I'm just in a pretty strange mood, I guess. The end of a school year is never a good time for me. As long as I'm in a 'sharing' mood, here's one I have not shared and never shall with any other living soul who knows me (What's an internet for, anyway?).

A young colleague - this is her second year - and former student who is about my son's age, 22, lost her boyfriend in a car accident a year ago last April. Now, I've been through some pretty tough $hit and since everyone knows (this is the country) and I'm a good listener who does not give much advice, she would come and talk to me about what she was going through.

Well, at a teacher's social the day we left for Christmas hols (we'd had a couple of glasses of wine), she gave me her 'phone number and asked me to call her.

Well (I say that too much), there is a whole batch of 'nevers' and 'never agains' here: never a student or former student, never again a colleague, never again a too-young woman and several more - rebound, etc. Also, to be honest, a (former) student here is family.

Anyway, she was a little cool after the hols, but around Easter, she started hitting on me. She asked me why I hadn't called and I had about a dozen truly fine speeches all prepared, but forgot them all.

I started to really look at her. She is an extremely intellligent and beautiful young woman. Like myself, she does not have a teaching degree but a degree in Litterature from a first-class private university, hers is a degree in French Litterature from l'Université de Montréal specialising in Quebec theatre, mine is a degree in the development of the modern European novel in English, French and German from McGill. Outside of the emotional stuff, it made for some pretty fast-paced and interesting (to us) conversation. We are also heavily involved in sports, she with ice hockey, both junior and senior and I with rugby, both high school and senior women's and, in fact, I still play.

About two weeks ago I was coming home after a school rugby semi-final and her truck (yes, truck) was in my lane. We had a glass of wine or two, got huggy wuggy, but she said she was still afraid and left (ouch).

Last week our high school went to La Ronde, an amusement park near Montreal. When we got off the bus she said she would like to know if there was a place to sit and relax and I said I'd show her one (after all, I had worked there as a university student when it opened in 1967). She asked me if her virtue would be in danger and I replied that she would have to ask (a personal rule). How many times do I have to ask?' she replied. She took my arm and off we went arm in arm.

Well (there I go again), we spent the day to-gether, more or less intimately as we had to avoid both teachers and students. It kept raining off and on which prevented us from getting really close.

To-day she came into the teachers' room, looked at me and left. That means she wants to talk and so at the end of first period I went up to my office instead of to the teachers' room. Her class is beside my office and she was waiting. I went in and asked how things were going and she told me that she had met someone this weekend. A hockey player about her age and she hoped she could get attached. I told her that I was happy for her, which I am, and that I hoped she was ready, which I do.

I have no complaints and more important no regrets, but, you know? The hardest part is that it has made me realise that I am pretty lonely.

Happy trails.
gremlin
11:47:56 AM
6/12/02

R.E. bummer
I dont mean to be nitpicking but turtles are reptiles not amphibians!! and usually the female snappers are the only ones to leave the water to lay her eggs. the only time male snappers leave the water is when food runs out or the waterhole is drying up and they need to search for another. all mating is done in the water. just thought you might like to know. Streamweaver
Streamweaver
11:59:33 AM
6/12/02

Yes, thanks.
gremlin
12:23:05 PM
6/12/02

Chin up Gremlin. That was a sad story.
LyndyS
12:25:32 PM
6/12/02

Thanks, LyndyS, but the chin's up. I think I'd call it bittersweet more than anything else.
gremlin
1:22:54 PM
6/12/02

Gremlin
Glad to hear your chin is up.

Me thinks you got used, but suspect you knew it all along.

If it was bittersweet, think about what was bitter, and more importantly, sweet. Might give you a hint about what went well and not-so-well.
stumprider
1:38:28 PM
6/12/02

Yep, what Stumprider said.


I saw a snapper on a trail today. Actually got to investigate a creek on some state land. She had just laid her eggs and was walking off. Kinda neat.
smiley girl
3:27:43 PM
6/12/02

Mercy killings are no fun.
birch
6:46:05 PM
6/12/02

No they are not!

8|
Crazy Mike Backpacks
6:50:37 PM
6/12/02

Where is Snackboy when you need him? I saw three deer the other day that must have been hit all at the same time by a car or truck. Bloody highway stain and drag marks to the shoulder. Two were off to the side and one was in the median. All in a row. Bing Bing Bing! I wonder how the driver faired.
Briar Rabbit
6:58:45 PM
6/12/02

Stay away from "office romances"...if it works out, great. If it doesn't...it gets really uncomfortable for everyone involved....and the aftermath lingers a long long time.

As for the turtle...aim true and end it's suffering.
stanlee
12:01:16 AM
6/13/02

Yup.
gremlin
8:39:08 AM
6/14/02

What's an internet for, anyway?
For saying things that you could never tell any living human being (I don't have a dog).

During the afternoon after my posts above, as I was leaving the staff room, I got a cream pie in the face by a few of my rugby boys. I'm a pretty easy going teacher, but I was really upset - thank God I didn't smack one. I had last period, but I just walked out. The next day I was too upset to go to work even though I had no sick days left. For the first time in twenty-five career years I didn't want to go to school and I didn't. It was a bad day.

(I might not submit this message.)

At the beginning of this school year I noticed a very attractive student teacher who seemed to always be around where I was. She'd come to my office when I was TTing, for example, and we'd talk. On Fridays after the school buses leave, we open the beer fridge in the staff room and have a social, 2$ for a beer and 3,50$ for one of those airline bottles of wine. The young lady, let's call her Chantal, always seemed to be around.

Once, when a colleague, Muriel, was absent Chantal replaced her for the period and I gave her some stuff she could make the kids do to keep them busy. It was my classroom and, guess what?, second period there was a note from Chantal thanking for the work and suggesting we have a beer after work. The note included her 'phone number.

Now there was just no way - especially after going through what I described above.

That Friday Chantal sat beside me at the social. She said the kids asked her if I was going out with Muriel. Muriel is new to our school although I have known her and her husband Stanley for over twenty years. She is from the English system and, well, the kids know I live alone and they like to talk.

Chantal then tells me that she told them I'd better not be because she's been hitting on me from the beginning of the school year. Now I'm a short, squat, 54 year-old country school teacher. Chantal is tall, beautiful, 24 years old with the loveliest brown eyes you ever saw. I do not understand what's going on.

A few weeks ago, as I was leaving school, she was standing beside her car and when I passed she asked me if I'd like to have a beer with her. I said yes.

Well, the next day was Tuesday and I have rugby and volleyball trainings after work. Wednesday I was in Montreal at the request of some former students to watch them play men's and women's rugby for John Abbott College against Dawson College. Thursday she had an appointment for her 4 year old daughter and so it was going to happen Friday.

After a few beers I asked her to dinner and asked if she prefered the pub where we were or my place just down the hill. She said it was my choice. I had prepared chicken 'Basquais' just in case, but when I took it out of the fridge she asked if I was really hungry. I said,'Hell, I ate yesterday.' and then we were in bed.

Well, this has happened to me before. Sometimes a younger woman at a crossroads does not want to commit herself to a long range relationship, is not interested in a party animal or occasional one-nighters and it happens - she moves on and we remain friends - no regrets and happy memories. I figured I'd never see her daughter, but that was cool.

While she's doing her professional training she's not allowed to supply teach and doesn't have a lot of time for a traditional part-time job. Luckily, her father and his girlfriend pretty much take care of her daughter while Chantal works at a mobile canteen at night selling sandwiches to factory workers on the night shift. She has to sing in her car all the way home to avoid falling asleep, then she showers and comes to work. She's been running on about 4 hours sleep a night (day).

Well, we started seeing each other pretty regularly and she quit the night job two weeks ago and spends most nights at my place. She told me she wouldn't see me last week-end because she wanted to spend it with her daughter - which is cool.

I went deer hunting Saturday morning and spent the afternoon getting caught up on housework and shopping. I made dinner and got to bed early. There's a knock on the door and Chantal is there with her daughter asleep in the car. I asked them in, but she said she'd just take Emilie, her daughter, to the pub for dinner.

She was back Sunday and I took them out for dinner. Her daughter is adorable and we had a great time and I once asgain have drawings on my fridge door. They returned home that evening, but Chantal slept over Monday night.

Obviously, we don't want people here at school to know about it. My village and the local pub are pretty English and my English buddies are aware of the situation (I hunt with them) and find it hilarious. My French friends and colleagues have noticed that I haven't been around and there's actually a rumour that I have a secret girlfriend. Chantal says that she doesn't want anyone to know until she graduates at Christmas and frankly, I wasn't thinking that far ahead.

She told me that she worked 'hard' to 'get' me. She had been in the staff room when I got the pie in the face and had made up her mind that she wanted to start seeing me. She had her mechanic - a former student of mine - drive her to my village to see where I live last summer and that she'd discussed this with her sister. I had not noticed her and hadn't realised she had been in the school last year.

Lately she's been talking about things to do with Emilie along during spring break and next summer. I find this talk of the future troubling. I explained to her that I'm planning a traverse of the White Mountains at spring break and a major climb in Alaska at the end of June and the beginning of July. I've always dremed of being a mountain climber and I intend to do so before it's too late for me.

Now here goes. Hold on.

She told me in our very first conversation that she was going to Edinburgh for Hogmanay at the home of a Scots engineer whom she had met in Montreal. She also said that he would be in Texas soon and he would pay her tickets to go and meet him. This was cool with me and I didn't ask any questions.

Well, Monday she said that she got the tickets and was supposed to leave to-day. It turns out that they are going to Las Vegas.

Chantal told me Monday that she wouldn't go if I asked her not to and I told her she ought to go. She was disappointed and said she'd be really upset if I did the same thing - let's not forget that I'm 54 and she's 24 here. Also, if she dumps the guy, she won't be going to Scotland at Christmas and that's abandonning a lot of stuff at that age for a relationship that can't go very far. We didn't fight, in fact we slept together, but it was sad when she said it was the first time she liked someone more than he (myself) liked her. I told her that if I had a problem dealing with this that it was my problem not hers and she ought to go.

Chantal 'phoned last night. She said she still hadn't made up her mind about going. I told her I would miss her. I'm pretty sure she was hoping I'd ask her not to go.

This morning when I climbed into my Jeep (I'm short, remember) there was a not on the seat. Chantal had left it sometime during the night or early morning (don't young people sleep anymore?). It was sad and sweet and it said she had decided to go. It also said that she would call when she got back Sunday. Her 'plane leaves about now.

It was the right decision and I'm proud of myself. I'm proud that I didn't dampen a part of a young woman's life to please my own vanity, but


I thought it would be easier.

Strange.

Doug
gremlin
4:15:20 PM
11/13/02

Chapter the next.
I need to write this.

Well, Chantal and I have been spending a lot of time to-gether. We went to see 'Harry Potter' which my friends think is hilarious. Saturday we went to a ceramics workshop and Emilie painted a cup for her nursery school teacher for Christmas.

I don't do Christmas any more.

A couple of weekends ago, Chantal invites me to her apartment. Saturday was great, but Sunday I panicked and escaped. Now, I'm agarophobic (in remission for now), but that wasn't it. I didn't understand.

Chantal and her daughter slept over Monday night, but not Tuesday which was the deal she had negociated with Emilie. Wedenesday morning she called to say the her father had beaten up her stepmother and had gotten himself arrested in Montreal - he hadn't been taking his meds apparently. For a couple of days I had three generations at my tiny place. The stepmother is 6 years younger than me and Chantal's on a roller coaster. She has had to quit her teacher training to get work to pay for daycare because there is no way her daughter can continue to be babysat there.

I have had to confront some stuff that was buried very deep.

I am an abused child - a 54 year-old battered kid.

I don't do Christmas.

During three years of therapy after my last breakdown, the last year was devoted to my relationships or lack thereof and why they all melt down to pile of toxic waste.

I finally understood those two weeks ago why I had panicked when Chantal invited me to her home - I mean, I never thought I'd even meet her daughter. She was letting me into her life and I panicked.

I'm an battered child and you're not allowed to love me. I'm not afraid of falling in love after all - not afraid of a broken heart in the least. I'm afraid of being loved. It's the people that love you that hit you.

There are lots of us around - we mostly become teachers or social workers, those of us that survive to 'function', that is. There was an article about people like me in the 'Atlantic Monthly' a few years ago entitled 'Wounded Healers'. We help others to the point of burning out because we're trying to fill the hole that is left when you won't let anyone love you.

Now it gets complicated.

Chantal is part of a small network of people like her. They are five young women all in about the same situation. They met when they were in subsidised housing at their university. To live there you had to be a single mother under 30 years of age and you had to prove financial need. They are all very good at working the system, subsidised housing, subsidised day care, student loans and bursaries, whatever. Oddly enough, or perhaps not, they agree on a few things. They don't date married men (a lot do who are in a similar situation) and they won't work (as barmaids) in a strip bar.

They all keep track of each other and help each other out. They are all going out with, or have recently been seeing older men. They each have that very special relationship with their children - it's very much them against the world - and their children are far too grown up for their age. They are all desperately lonely in the way women can be that we men cannot understand.

And Christmas is coming.

Isabelle is her best friend, they spent yesterday to-gether. Christmas is panic time. They all have a difficult family history and they have to balance 'family' life in one or more homes and try to deal with reconstituted families of one sort or another. The holiday time is no an easy one. They have their kids and the hope they will meet someone special who is not a loser, or a drunk, or violent - but who can never get too close to the kid - someone that won't interfere with the 'team'. Emilie climbe onto my lap yesterday evening. Chantal lifted onto her own immediately and held her daughter and just looked at me.

'Don't be jealous.' I said.

'I can't help it.' she replied.

Chantal is beginning to panic about her trip to Scotland. She will be seeing the young engineer and meeting his family. I am encouraging her to go and she is hurt by this. I didn't quite say it like this, but she's leaving at Christmas if I have to dope her, duct tape her and put her on the conveyor belt in a canvas sack.

I don't do Christmas.

Disfunctional you say? Well what is functional, anyway, might I ask? Actually, I get to watch 'functional' when I go to my best friends' places. Norm and Sylvie's and Pete and Bea's, people from nuclear families and living in a nuclear family. It's a bit like visiting another planet, or watching the 'Cosby Show', I guess.

Chantal and Isabelle are working out daycare provisions. It's a headache because you can't be registered at two subsidised daycares at the same time and there is a lot of paperwork to get in. There looking into emergency provisions so that they can balance the kids when each mother is gone. Bea doesn't approve or understand how Chantal can leave her child at Christmas. She has never seen a Christmas on our planet and I hops she never does. Emilie and Chantal have been decorating their apartment and visiting and comparing decorations with the network. They all have their own way of unctioning.

I don't do Christmas, but I'll visit Norm and Sylvie and Pete and Bea's and stay as long as I can stand it, then I'll leave.

Last Friday, Chantal was really shirty with me and, while I slept over, we didn't have sex. Saturday we went to the ceramic workshop and while Emilie was painting, Emily was thinking. Suddenly she asked her mother to get their cat from her grandfather's place. When the mother said the cat was happier on the farm, Emilie replied that she was afraid her gandfather would hurt it. I said to Chantal in English so that the child wouldn't understand that it should be easy to explain to the kid that the cat couldn't be in any danger. Chantal answered (in English) that Emilie had told her that she saw Chantal's father beat the dog before beating his wife.

Later that day, she told me she knew she wouldn't be building a life with the guy she was going to see and was terribly hurt that I was encouraging her to go. I said we'd talk about it when she got back. She plied me with sex and wine and we got into some serious negociations. Basically, she goes to Scotland and if she still wants me afterward, she can have me. I told her I'd never turn her away, nor prevent her from leaving.

The problem is, if Bea really doesn't approve of Chantal, Chantal is toast. I need to see a real family every once in a while. It's like watching the 'Cosby Show'. I brought up two kids through a divorce and abandonment. I don't want to do it again. I don't want to do Christmas. And I'll never argue with Bea. I'm on my best behaviour because it's a privilege to know them - and privileges, unlike food and shelter can be taken away. You get to like them and they disappear because someone takes them away.

A little bit like some black kid sitting on the floor watching TV. He knows the Cosbys are from another planet, one that he'll never visit, but it's nice to see. He has to behave because if they take the TV away, he won't be able to watch them anymore.

Happy trails, everyone.
gremlin
12:13:59 PM
12/09/02

Phew! That is one heavy load. Hang in there man!
Geobeet
12:25:11 PM
12/09/02

Yeah, I guess I thought I was safe this time. But at least I understand a lot more.

Chantal and I had a talk about it. I don't think there are any accidents. On some plane she was going to need someone who would know what to do and be there to help her live through the stuff around her. On my part, I understand things about myself that a year of therapy could not explain to me.
gremlin
2:49:03 PM
12/09/02

wow, Gremlin. More power to you.

I think this is what was nagging at me on another thread. The subject of 'doing the right thing' came up... and sometimes it's impossible to know what 'the right thing' is. If we're lucky, maybe it will become clear a few years down the line.
Tilt
3:17:10 PM
12/09/02

I never want her to say, 'I should have gone to Scotland.'
gremlin
12:03:13 PM
12/10/02

Wow Gremlin! Best of luck to all of you.

How scary would it be if she decided that she wasn't going to Scotland because her relationship with you is more important to her?
pedxing
12:37:17 PM
12/10/02

"I'm afraid of being loved. It's the people that love you that hit you."

havin' been an abused child myself, i can relate. you're right when you say that we don't allow anyone to love us. this past year has been a hard one on me too. i've gone thru several relationships where i've gotten hurt, and am just tryin' to manage bein' alone now. can't stand the pain any more.

good luck to you in this "trip". you're in my thoughts. btw, you said "in english", ..... what other language were you speakin' in? sorry.... don't know you or where you come from.
xpoisonivyx
12:49:03 PM
12/10/02

I'm an English, as a second language teacher in a small, rural high school in southwestern Quebec, just north of the New York State border. It's an area with about an equal number of French and English speaking people.

Ped, that's what she's been saying and as I said, she's going to Scotland even if I have to drug her, duct tape her and put her on the conveyor belt in a canvas sack.

The negociations were that she has to make a choice she won't regret. If she doesn't go she'll never really know. She says she has already made the choice, but agrees that my answer is the better one.

Hey, there's a 30 year age difference here and I'm hoping she'll come to her senses sooner than later for the reasons that Poisonivy mentionned. I'm used to 'alone' - it's been my best friend for a long, long time.
gremlin
12:59:49 PM
12/10/02

Yes, alone can be a heck of a lot sccarier than being in a real relationship - where it is just the two of you and no clear exit in sight.
pedxing
1:10:13 PM
12/10/02

Heavy stuff, gremlin, I wish I could offer words of advice, but I can't. You do have my sympathies. You're a good guy, and don't forget that. Let's hike the 'Dacks again soon, eh?
Santartex
1:27:21 PM
12/10/02

Suggestion:

Become "at pease" with your situation. This does not forget, but to relize that the past is the past and present is what is important. You need to take a look at what can bring you pease and act upon it, even if it means making tough decisions. Question your surroundings and relationships and see if it is contributing to your situation. People in your life can be of great influence to you. Some might not like to helped, some might thrive on it. Much disruption in your life, I hear. Your are to be commeded for your contribution to your area, now take a little for yourself and don't feel guilty, as long as it is not too much. It is my belief that a major hike is in order for you.
laqtis
1:29:03 PM
12/10/02

oh, gremlin, you seem like such a good person...i'm sorry about all your "bummers." laqtis has some good advice...i hope you'll do whatever is best for you. isn't TT great for unloading?
lyra
2:28:11 PM
12/10/02

So......
.....everyone has problems......YOU have to get away from them on your own......don't whine and moan, either get out of the situation or stay and be miserable.......seems like an easy choice to me!
Jello Fog
3:05:13 PM
12/10/02

LOL!
Jello contradicts his own advice (by stopping to complain)
pedxing
3:16:15 PM
12/10/02

LOL, good point, pedxing! :-)
Santartex
3:20:55 PM
12/10/02

Jello does not let his personal convictions stand in the way of giving unsolicited advice.
geobeet
3:23:38 PM
12/10/02

ultimately, you need to find your own happiness, regardless if you're alone or not.

hiking and exploring and working out is the best medication, so i do all quite frequently.
jmitch
3:37:29 PM
12/10/02

It is what it is.......
....I'm not complaining, if you don't want advice, then don't advertise you problems or try to obtain pity, no one needed to here the sob story......how wussy
Jello Fog
3:41:49 PM
12/10/02

I think a bigger wuss is one who takes shots over the internet and I bet wouldn't be as confrontational in real life. Take a hike, Jello Fog, you're the loser here.
Santartex
3:45:38 PM
12/10/02

Well… I read it, every last word. I wish I had some advice to give… anything – but I don’t. Thanks for thinking enough of us to share. Hope the unburdening helps. Best of luck on your journey.
Violin
3:46:16 PM
12/10/02

Poor Jello! Had to "here a sob story."

Note: Gremlin didn't complain about any advice he got. I was the one who pointed out the contradiction... and then you came back to do more complaining and name calling.

Keep practicing this whining about whining... you're almost good as the other BacPac wannabee.
pedxing
3:53:58 PM
12/10/02

…Then of course there is the part of me that wants to scream about a short, squat, 54 year-old man conflicted about the complexities of having a tall, beautiful, 24 years old woman fall for him. (lol)
Violin
3:55:19 PM
12/10/02

you thinking is all wrong Santartex
Jello Fog
4:00:01 PM
12/10/02

like you said pedxing....whining
Jello Fog
4:03:01 PM
12/10/02

Bacpac wannabe, LOL! So true.
Santartex
4:24:37 PM
12/10/02

Thanks, Jello,
I needed that. Let's just all cool down; I didn't want to step on any emotional toes, I just wanted to vent. Thanks for listening. I'm optimistic that things will work out, however that may be. At least now I think I know why and how my last serious relationship - and perhaps all the others - self destructed.
gremlin
4:50:25 PM
12/10/02

Chapter the Next
Hey, Gremlin I feel like I really know you. I sympathize with you, I think you should get out there gremlin and change your mind. You seem to have been through a tought time to say the least. Enjoy it while you can nothing last for ever.

I'm sure you must have a couple of good friends that will help, i.e. Norm and Sylvie, Pete and Bea. I'm sure these people sound like good friends and that they are willing to lend a hand, help change your state of mind. I would suggest that you get your butt out there and do some serious stuff with the boys, you should even try to do this during the "I dont do Xmas" period. Nothing like a few cocktails, coule of beers, scotch, wine, couple good buddies, open air BBQ and a common objective to share. if you like the outdoors I would suggest something extreme for the "I dont do Xmas" period. Somewhere really north where temperatures can reach minus 40-50 degrees. With temperatures like this you only think about one thing and that is the objective of why your out in this sub-zero climat, freezing your a$#@ off. Let me make a suggestion: Buddy your coming with me and the Boys and were going to hunt some Caribou in James Bay. gremlin you sound like a hell of a good guy to me and true frienship is really hard to find my world is small and I can only count on a couple of individuals. Remember girlfriends may and go, but your true friends (that live in the same small world as you)will always be there for you. To the East.
winchester
4:52:37 PM
12/10/02

Ya know… it almost plays like a movie script – give it a good ending.
Violin
4:53:10 PM
12/10/02

LOL! at Violin who puts his finger on the other issue. When I turn 50, can you help me find a school like yours to teach at?
pedxing
5:16:29 PM
12/10/02

gremlin....
.....and to others, I was not being harsh to you individually but in the situation.....and the situation cannot change unless YOU change it, I have been around situations as such and all it does is bring everyone down, mostly yourself.......get away from it and start anew, you won't believe how much better you will feel........good luck and to all who think I'm a jerk...........now get out dude.
Jello Fog
5:16:45 PM
12/10/02

Zen and the Art of Elminating Jello Fog
It is my suggestion that you might find pease else where, troll. You have much karma to deal with. Take yourself and the others trolls you post as out of this area, or shape up and cut the comedy.
laqtis
6:29:02 PM
12/10/02

laqtis
eliminating Jello Fog may be a problem
Jello Fog
8:03:53 PM
12/10/02

I Have Time
:)
laqtis
8:17:34 PM
12/10/02

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