Your bottom 3 pieces of gear

“1) my first pair of boots, a pair of Goretex Rockys. Almost immediately began to disintegrate. Since replaced with a pair of Sundowners.

2) My first pack, which I still use some, an old North Face Inca. It's heavy and huge, and the hipbelt loosens as I walk. I've replaced it with two packs, a GVP G4, and an Osprey Aether 60.

3) My first tent, a cheap Camp Trails piece of junk. It's not really a backpacking tent, but I've used it camping a couple of times. It started to rain on me once, and I sat in the tent and watched the rain ooze through the tent wall. Since replaced with a Sierra Designs Ridgeback, which is a Clip Flashlight 2 in a different color scheme.”

“It has been a long time since my first trip, but I think the worst gear I ever had was on that one.

A three man dome tent (one of us carried the tent, another the rain fly another the poles) combined it weighed a metric ton and leaked like a sieve.

Cookware that we approriated from the cafeteria (we figure since it was aluminum, it would be light...then we learned there is no way to make a 5 qt pot to be light)

Cotton socks. It only takes one time.”

“Montrail Moraines - guaranteed to get blisters

First need filter - get a full upper body workout after pumping, maybe that's a good thing

My first internal frame pack - great design, great color, great price, can't remember the brand - I lost feeling from the hip to mid thigh on the right side. Had a metal kick stand hip belt thingie that probably cut off circulation. Used it twice and dumped it.”

“Huge polarwhatever-filled sleeping bag, propane stove, "boots" that were actually high-top running shoes... the list goes on and on!”

“1) My Montrails before they were finally broken in.

2) MSR Dragonfly stove. (Affectionately known as the Boeing)

3) My can't-remember-who-made-it-piece-of-crap-lightweight-but-doesn't-cut-soft-butter handsaw. Threw it away and enjoyed it.”

“Skully,
You don't like the space shuttle noise put out by your dragonfly? I kinda like it--sort of a Tim Allen thing I guess.

Worst gear:
1)Stainless Steel MSR pot set--way to friggin heavy, redundant, and impractical.
2)Drawer full of various flashlight/headlamp systems, all of which are now obsolete in the Zipka era.
3)Giant 4 room circus tent I once bought at Wally World in an attempt to get my wife to go camping. What a piece of crap.”

“1. Texsport "Knollwood Bivy" that is all over ebay. Piece of poopoo. Sold it on ebay for more than I paid for it.
2. My first pair of hiking boots. Got them on clearance at walmart and used them a couple times before switching to Scarpa SLs. Gave it to some kids on a scavenger hunt.
3. Cook pot from walmart (also a Texsport). Still use it, but I want to replace it at first opportunity.”

“underwear, panties and bloomers! betcha no one saw that one coming, heh-heh-heh.”

“Bottom three pieces of gear? Why, of course, that would literally be boots, socks and.... hmmmm... what's at the next highest elevation? Pants, shorts or undies??”

“Probably everything I have now and think is cool will eventually be my bottom pieces. But for now I would like to live in the illusion that I got great stuff.”

“I'll bet you got great stuff.”

“DON'T YOU TALK TO HER LIKE THAT YOU PERVERT! She's WAY too good for that, and she will love me someday.”

“I told you to move on Fruit A$$!”

“1. My large ALICE pack - the most painful way to carry any gear.

2. Cheap foam sleeping pad - just like sleepin on the ground, it only takes up space on the outside of the pack.

3. Wetzel 3 man dome tent - bought at the BX in 1989 for 30 bux.”

“I like that....Boeing!!!!! LOL !!! Ain't that the truth.


Lets see where to begin,,,most of the crappiest items have long since been discarded. Like some cheap water filter where the glunky soup can sized filter had to lay in the water. All thin cheap plastic construction. It served its purpose for a spur of the moment purchase while in Jelleystone.

My first camping/hiking 'light' took like 6 D or C batteries had a flourescent light along the length and a crappy spotlight on the end. It was the ' whip' in 7th grade.

I actually have this crappy TNF sleeping bag that I still use but what makes it crappy is that the draft collar for the zipper is attached to the underside of the zipper. Hence no protection from zipper drafts when the draft collar is hanging below the zipper. And to top it all off those bassturds at TNFcalled it "Windy Pass'. And that it does.”

“LOL Skully... I call my "WhisperLite" the ThunderChief, <G>.


"FruitA$$" Huh?? I guess that must be a DeMonte Thing --- I just wouldn't understand.


I know that light, Briar... Did it have red and amber flashing lights on the other side?

How About those D-cells, LOL! And SPARE D-cells!”

“Eddie Bauer PVC rainsuit (a gift).

MSR non-stick cookset. What do I need a set for? And it sticks.

Day Pack with company logo handed out on employee appreciation day. Good little pack - don't like the NASCAR feel of walking about with an ad on my back.”

“Ahhh, I see ULTRAPecker's still with us. Gee, newgie you're SUCH a lucky girl, I think it has a crush on you, LOL.
But, I digress. My first backpacking trip around 1962, I had a borrowed WOODEN FRAMED backpack (I think I gotcha beat on that one, garfum), a Korean war era military issue sleeping bag and a pair of work boots. I think the trip was up Mt. San Gorgornio. My back still aches at the thought of that pack. I told my mom that if she didn't buy me an acceptable pack that I'd never go bacpacking again. Thank God she relented.”

“The cotton duck pup tent my parents gave me for winter camping in Ohio.


The the family dome tent rented from Navy MMWR.

Anything with a motor.”

“Jeez...do I really have to choose?!?

1. College issue hiking boots (in other words, old, hand-me-down, falling apart tennis shoes). Nearly had to duct tape the soles to my feet to get down from the Smokies.

2. Wal-Mart gardening trowel (long since discarded after it bent on a root while digging a mountain toilet). There's nothing more lame than packing out a useless, bent shovel.

3. Tissue-paper-thin emergency poncho from Academy for $.99. I don't believe in carrying heavy raingear (if it rains I just walk faster), but I'd probably be better off with no raingear at all...even a trash bag tops this one.

Jeez...I hate being so poor.

Runner up: my 4 cylinder Saturn. This isn't exactly gear, but my poor girl can barely make it uphill in high altitudes...”

“i'm poor too flowbbee, ^5!


worst gear?

my johnny quest super spytronic magnatron telescope that i ordered outta the back of a spiderman comic book......happy meals have higher quality toys.


the ziplock bag of mysteriuos white gooey stuff in the bottom left pocket of my pack that i'm too scared to open cuz it might be anthrax er sumpthin.



popeel pocket fisherman........... don't believe the infomercial, you can't REALLY catch a 250 lb swordfish on it.”

“1) Boots- too heavy and they are dangerous. Absolutely destructive to the trails too.

2) Tents- Too heavy and far too expensive.

3) Treking poles- Superfluous.

I find these three base items to be the single biggest hurtle hikers have to overcome in realizing their true potential on the trail. It is not so much an actual “need” for these items but rather a desire to gain acceptance in other’s eyes due to mass consumerism. Have you ever seen the two newbies using the K Mart tent you just know will be soaked through and through if it rains? Try and remember how you felt when you saw the tent. We look down on them, don’t we? Admit it. I have. You feel sorry for them because they don’t know any better and they are not yet on the bandwagon of outdoor consumerism.

Just my opinion.”

“Uh oh.

Hey Ray, I find trekking poles very useful, and Tents keep the bugs away. I know there are other ways of doing it, and I applaud those who make their own gear, or modify cheap gear to fit, but what, exactly, do you mean by "true potiential" on the trail?

Outdoor consumerism... I almost feel like someone is trolling for me...”

“Hello Phaedrus!

I prefer to not be called Ray as I am a female. I imagine the assumption will be a common problem, ey? RJW is fine for short. To expand on what I said earlier; I don’t blame you for not understanding the crux of my note, as you admit you use these items and find value (comfort) in them. Let me break it down a bit.

It’s kind of like the fat person who swears up and down that they are happy and love themselves just the way they are. They deceive themselves in an attempt to not necessitate a lifestyle change. Why admit unhappiness and have to give up the donuts and pizza? If you know any of these people AFTER they have made the positive change and lost the extra kilos, they will always tell you how unhappy they were and how they hated themselves.

Are you seeing where this is going? Only after we shed these things that we are told we absolutely HAVE TO HAVE will we see the true liberation of our positive life changes.”

“Your analogy is flawed on so many levels I can't even decide where to begin.

Let's stick to hiking, shall we? Gear is a subject very personal to each. If one is making educated choices about what they take with them on a very low-tech pastime (walking in the woods), they have beaten the outdoor consumerism system. Blindly snapping up whatever gear is advertized is another thing completely.

Trekking poles are useful and worthwhile for ME. I prefer taking a small tent when I hike with another person, simply because the weight ratio is so much better with two people. I take a tarp when I'm alone, usually. Boots are a matter of choice that come in all weights and builds. My cabela's boots are almost as light as any tennis shoes, and were inexpensive.

Leaving these things at home is something I have done in the past. I prefer taking them.”

“I was trying to keep my analogy simple and still involve it in a large part of a person’s life. At the time I felt it fit the explanation I wished to give. Weather you beat the consumerism is wholly dependant upon where you are getting the information to make your “educated choices”. I find most sources of outdoor education to be a direct route to even deeper consumerism thinking. There are many roads but they do not all lead to the same place.

You have made your gear choices for whatever reasons and I have made mine. I don’t mean to sound as if I’m calling your choices wrong, just uninformed.”

“Oh, you can call it Ray, or you can Jay, but either Way, it's just an old troll under yet another identity. What a putz.”

“I'd say, just based on what I've read here, that my choices are more informed than yours. You obviously put a lot of stock in what Ray Jardine says, and I have read his books as well, but my thinking comes from independent thought, experience and trial.

It might be different if we all had the exact same goals. Since we don't, I would hesitate to put value in the opinion of one who baselessly calls other people's choices uniformed.”

“My, how condescending.

You have been to the mountaintop, and have now returned to enlighten us poor souls. You can save your breath; we've heard it all before.
Some people go in for it --- some don't. We, the great unwashed, reserve judgement unto ourselves.

Ray has a website and sells his stuff just like any other outdoor business, does he not? When he starts giving it away, be sure to send up a flare, <GRIN>.


P.S. Give your knees a few more years and you may see trekking poles in a different light.”

“lmao tilt”

“That would be a good backpacking comic: The Wizard of Id Guru on the mountaintop, only its Ray Jardine.”

“Backpacking Hammock-
Candle lantern
Magnesium fire starter”

“Sorry if that came out a little harsh. It's been a Long Day and it's not even 1:30 yet!


The Wizard of Id... wow, Pathman, that really takes me back. The smartass guy chained to the dungeon wall always cracked me up. Somehow he never quite lost his sense of humor (quite an admirable quality).”

“Synthetic bag (weighs a ton and takes up half my pack)

Exstream water bottle (squeeze squeeze squeeze squeeze)

Eureka tent (heavy)”

“why does RayJayWay remind me a lot of Dr. Laura ?”

“Father Goose-

Very eloquent Father Goose. When all else fails, call them a name.

Phaedrus-

**I would hesitate to put value in the opinion of one who baselessly calls other people's choices uniformed.**

How about “your choices are ignorant”? This would be much more accurate as I’m sure you don’t miss a single issue of Backpacker or Outside so I have no doubt that you are very well informed as to what the industry says you have to have (and you obviousely take it hook line and sinker).

Tilt-

**You have been to the mountaintop, and have now returned to enlighten us poor souls.”**

I never said this. You take literary licensure into shaping my words to say what you wish them to in order to elevate your own words. Very small.

**Ray has a website and sells his stuff just like any other outdoor business, does he not?**

No he doesn’t. He licensed his designs to GoLite. His ideas were going to be eventually ripped off and produced (example: Lynne Weldon). By your flawed thinking Henry Ford should have given his cars away.

**P.S. Give your knees a few more years and you may see trekking poles in a different light.**

My knees will be fine. The major causes of bad knees are the fat ASS at the top of those legs, poor technique, carrying too much weight, and with the advent of the trekking poles, weakening of the knees due to the use of supplemental supports. Strong knees live longer. Do the work and it will pay off.”

“An Optimus liquid fuel handwarmer. It never worked right and always went out a few minutes after lighting it.”

“You're right again,I've sold my poles and started wearing high heels to help strengthen my knees.Thanks for the advice..tough guy.It is nice spending a couple hours to find tarp sticks,besides who held those poles for me when I crossed deep water.”

“That's tough gal unclit. If it takes you hours to find a tarp stick and you can't cross a creek without poles you may want to stick to something more pedestrian like wearing your high heals to the gay bar and stay out of the wilderness.”

“rayjayway, father goose was probably referring to a "dr laura" who used to spend time here, not the real one.

I would disagree about trekking poles weakening knees. I would have to see some pretty convincing data to sway my opinion on them. I have a good friend who has run over 15,000 miles including about 14 marathons, 1 ironman triathalon,numerous olympic distance triathalons, and unknown thousands of miles on his bike. He has had one knee surgery and will have the other done prolly in the next 6 months.

Regarding you comments to Phaedrus, you are accusing him of being a corporate lackey and drone. Yet you name yourself after ray and his way...sounds like you are a touch guilty of potcallinthekettleblack.”

“**He has had one knee surgery and will have the other done prolly in the next 6 months.**

Hello birch. Nice to meet you. Hiking and running are two different things and sense this is a hiking board I was speaking in the scope of hiking. My guess is that your friend has bad genes or picked up some bad habits as far as technique goes early in his running career. Do you think his problems would be better had he started running with poles? Does he have a fat American ASS atop his legs?

**Regarding you comments to Phaedrus, you are accusing him of being a corporate lackey and drone.**

Not actually. It is merely the pattern of his choices that lead me to think he has gathered his preferences from all the usual suspects, like backpacker, web sites that foster rampant consumerism, and Outside. His choices are his choices. With all that great gear he may have a heavier load, may not be able to spend as many hours on the trail as a lightnick and he may have a heavier dependency on his gear but I bet you he sure looks good on the trail.

**Yet you name yourself after ray and his way...sounds like you are a touch guilty of potcallinthekettleblack.**

My name is a bit of a misnomer. I had to come up with a screen name and wanted to use HickerChick but it was already gone. I didn’t think my screen name I use elsewhere on the net would be appropriate (LabiaLover) and had to come up with something. Ray’s books have revolutionized my hiking style and given me much freedom and I am eternally indebted to him for that. No, I’m not a Raybot or anything like that but when props are due, I gladly give them. There are few people I feel that when they talk, people should listen. Ray is one of these free thinkers that bares listening to.”

“I ONCE (eons ago) borrowed a 4 cylinder Plymouth mini-van to cart 3 of us and our gear to the Rockies outside of Fort Collins. Had to turn the AC off, open the windows (it was REALLY hot) and had the pedal to the metal and we were doing 15 MPH!”

“Why wouldn't labialover be appropriate here? Everything else goes.”

“Rayjay, I doubt my friend has poor genes, and poor form or habits (as you cal them). Running is his life, he reads its, lives it and wins at it. No he isnt fat, hes about 4-6%body fat. He is 48 and no doubt fitter than 90% of 28 year olds.

Regarding comments about Phaedrus and his pack weight (as you suspect it). Pack weight is relative. I can carry a heavy or light pack and go all day. Do I prefer a lighter pack? Yep. Is someone elses style, or pack weight my concern? Nope. Hike your own hike. Your dependency on gear is prolly equal to a gear head. You are just as dependent on a homemade quilt and shelter as some are on a factory made bag and tent.Your dependence is just on fewer items. Some companies do push (as you say) " rampant consumerism" others push rampant elitism.

Some do love ray. Some have found him an epiphany. I dont. I discovered that if I wanted a lighter pack I just carried less crap.

Regarding Ray being a free thinker (HAHAHAHAHA!) you oughtta talk to my good friend who was banned from rays site becuase of his name choice on one occassion, and for disagreeing with him on other occassions.”

“Where is his site birch? I'd like a look at that board.”

“Violin,

Try rayjardine.com

No longer a message board there though.”

“Rayjay, I have your board right here!”

“LOL Stump! That's how I felt, too!”

“Were you in the van, too?”

“Nah...that's about like the ride in my Saturn, tho....the little backpacker that could....chug, chug, chug, chug....”