Lance drops the hammer

“'Bout time that slacker won a stage!!”

“I think Rasmussen is still riding:) That first crash was just painful to watch.”

“That first crash was just painful to watch

i hear that all the time. but im trying to get better”

“Lance has won the Mellow Johnny! Three members of Discovery Channel team crash, but all get up and ride on.”

“I hope Discovery Channel can pick up Vinokourov!”

“Bunch of people falling on the wet cobblestones”

“...the oddsmakers at PinnacleSports.com believe that Armstrong will not change his mind in the next year and list the odds on the Texan competing in next year's Tour de France as a 11/1 long shot. PinnacleSports.com overwhelmingly favors Armstrong 'riding off into the sunset' and not participating in the 2006 Tour (1/13). Now that Lance will have an abundance of free time, rumors will definitely circulate that he'll wed girlfriend, musician Sheryl Crow. Despite their close relationship over the past few years, PinnacleSports.com lists the odds on Armstrong and Crow marrying in 2005 as an even bigger long shot (at 15/1 odds) than the cyclist partaking in next year's Tour.

Current Odds: *All Odds Subject To Change*

Will Lance Armstrong Compete In 2006 Tour de France?
No 1/13
Yes 11/1

Will Lance Armstrong Marry Sheryl Crow In 2005?
No 1/18
Yes 15/1

Who Will Win 2006 Tour de France Without Lance Armstrong Participating?
Ivan Basso 13/10
Jan Ullrich 12/5
Alejandro Valverde 17/2
Any Other Rider 19/5”

“INFRIGGINCREDIBLE!!!! Lance must be some kinda mutant. HE is amazing!”

“Kleine Zeitung indeed. I know that genre well.”

“Thanks, I'll watch that.”

“at the end of the show Lance says quickly as they are going off the air......

see you in 2007.........j/k”

“I caught that. LOL I don't think he could resist.”

“Your rascal SP!!! I am taping it at 11PM, so shut up already!”

“perhaps it was just a remark

or perhaps it was a little more subtle than that, like how he couldn’t resist a parting shot on the podium against the backdrop of the Arc de Triomphe when he said:

“the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the skeptics” who suspect that doping is rife and fueled his dominance of the past seven years.

“I’m sorry you don’t believe in miracles. But this is a hell of a race,” he said. “You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I’ll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets — this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it.””

“missed it. I think it comes on again this weekend.”

“It's on again tonight at 11 EST too.”

“yeah, I just checked out the schedule.

I wonder if he mentioned that he will be coming to ABQ in 2006. Oh, that's right. He doesn't know that yet. ;-)

First step, help me meet Lance and LAF leadership
last edited: 8/02/05 9:57:45 PM”

“Charlie Rose Show Excerpts on thepaceline.com

LIVESTRONG”

“Lance is again being accused of doping in 1999. One viewer on CNN commented by email that "The only banned substance Lance used in France was deodorant".”

“LMFAO!!!!”

“Me too. That was a great comment that guy sent in.”

“I hope I'm not proved wrong, but my gut tells me Lance is clean.

It saddens me a great deal to see all the naysayers who do everything they can to destroy a positive image... and that's what I think is behind this... lets just do everything we can to discredit this guy"

Again, I hope I'm wrong, but there just seems to be a whole culture of destroying anything positive in the media... it really is very sad to see.”

“I believe him.”

“RichB, I heard a newstory about this last week. The allegation was that EPO was found in a frozen sample of urine from 1999. I think it was IADA who said that they cant pursue anything without a second sample to verify (two samples are taken together and stored seperately I hear), the second sample was either destroyed or contaminated years back,I dont recall which. However it was a leaked report whos validity is under some question.Lance does have 6 current lawsuits against some past accusers of steroid use.

I still believe that Lance is clean.”

“Hmmm. I must have heard wrong on the radio. I thought they had 6 samples of which they tested.”

“wasnt there epo in his system leftover from the cancer treatments?”

“additionally, i thought it was sample A that was no longer around?”

“Actually, yeah. Other news sources online are saying 6 samples were tested. Maybe it was 6 samples from one original sample?”

“Well we have a consensus LOL...


CB, I think EPO (even synthetic) is only supposed to stay in the system for 15 days. The usual sign is raised hemocrit levels.

He has said before that yes he used EPO in treatment but had been clean for months prior to his return.”

“Lance Talks Back, The Paceline


Lance Talks, Larry King”

“Just my opinion, but I think there is a strong chance that lance had been taking something. Nothing but repect for him, but I think all the cyclists at that level are taking performance-enhancing drugs. It's inconceivable that Lance is the only clean one out there and yet performing at a higher level to all the others.”

“y2, why do you hate america so?

(sorry, i just had to say it)

it does seem odd that dude wins 7 consecutive tour de france, and seems to do it with relative ease. but im just talking out my ass. i dont really know. i do think these accusations are rather shady and i dont really trust them, either”

“What it boils down to is that the tests are faulty or someone is not telling the truth, either Lance or the publication. I think the public is more skeptical now that they heard outright lies coming from the baseball players recently. It's similar to Clinton going on TV and saying "I did not have sex with that women".

I don't know if Lance did or didn't dope at one point and it's in the past now. One thing for sure is that drugs are a reality in sports and it probably won't change anytime soon. Who knows who takes what even on the amateur level?”

“RichB, there was a great article in Outside about two months ago. There was an interview with the head of the US anti-doping agency. He was very open about his lack of confidence in current methods and the fact that since big name stars are worth so much they get the best doctors and chemists, pretty discouraging piece IMO. He did offer a plan to curb the use. Atheletes could voluntarily test regularly and those who are clean would be "endorsed or certified" by the anti-doping agency, those who refused testing would not be penalized. There would be no back up for their claims however.

I want Lance to be clean. I want him to be a living miracle, I want him to show that hard work,discipline and training are a winning combo. But I am not so naive as to be confident that he has been "pure".”

““Just my opinion, but I think there is a strong chance that lance had been taking something. Nothing but repect for him, but I think all the cyclists at that level are taking performance-enhancing drugs. It's inconceivable that Lance is the only clean one out there and yet performing at a higher level to all the others.”
y2
9:16:03 AM
8/27/05

Your basic assumption is that all cyclists at that level are taking performance enhancing drugs. I assume you have your reasons for believing that. Until you open up for the possibility that some do not, then I guess you would be predisposed to discredit anyone who wins the tour...no matter what their country of origin.”

“That article on him in that French paper was utter crap. It's amazing the depth people will go to to tear someone down. I am not a big Lance fan but I have nothing against him. If he was a doper it would have been discovered in a more certain fashion. One can't deny his accomplishments.”

“Carl Lewis...the great sprinter won 4 or 5 olympics. He never got caught using some kind of enhancing drugs.

But guess what....after his last olympic....there were talk of some drugs in his urine from years past. :o( The American Sports Association or something, suppressed the reports until the Games were over.

Unfortunately, alot of athletes at that level use dope....if they didn't, they won't be up there. :o( Now the amateur levels are using drugs.”

“I looked at the paper describing his physiology changes during his career. I thought it might report his hematocrit, but did not. Epo causes you to make more red blood cells, the hematocrit is the percentage of your blood made up by red blood cells. If his increased performance could be shown to independent of his epo, or his epo did not change, that would support his claims.

Frozen samples, breakdown of the duplicate system, new assay, and serious breakdown of the drug testing ethics... Too many uncertainties to ruin a career.

This guy has a vested interest, but he believes there are other explanations for Lance's performance.

Austin Statesman,
"UT scientist defends Armstrong
Adviser to the IOC said Armstrong's edge over the competition has nothing to do with illegal drug use">”

“"Your basic assumption is that all cyclists at that level are taking performance enhancing drugs. I assume you have your reasons for believing that. Until you open up for the possibility that some do not, then I guess you would be predisposed to discredit anyone who wins the tour...no matter what their country of origin.”
Phil
3:21:23 PM
8/27/05

Pretty well yes. Pantani for example, who won before Lance and Ulrich, died in very strange circumstances a few years after he won the tour, and was kicked out of a race a year later. (oops, I mean a year after he won the tour)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/cycling/3489569.stm

It's not to necessary discretit him, as it's kinda a level playing field, with the majority coming under suspicion. I hope he's completely clear. His achievement with help or not is up there with the most amazing in any sport.
Look at the tour a few years ago, when whole teams ran into trouble, and performance enhancing drugs were found.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/cycling/1998/tourdefrance/news/1998/08/02/drug_chronology/

It's not just cyclists. In track, the British sprinter Linford Christie got better in his 30s, not normally a time when althletic prowess is increasing. He recorded his best times and won Olympic Gold in his mid- to late-30s.

[url]
last edited: 8/28/05 9:32:04 AM”

“I thought about his blood count numbers too. Normal hemoglobin for a male is around 13.5 to 17 so if his blood count was high that might tip off race officals to EPO use. Since nothing was said about that you can assume it was within normal range I suppose.”

“Richb, from what I have read the standard way to detect EPO is through hemocrit levels. The established number has been 50. Atheletes have been known to dope up to the low 49's then taper off...”

“Normal hemocrit is between 40 and 52, so I guess if someone is a normal 40 and nobody knows that, I guess they can use EPO to bump up to 52 and get away with it.”

“I still think the lab that did those tests was 2nd rate at best. The results of these b-sample tests were supposed to be confidential and only used to test the ability of testing methods to detect EPO. The origin of the sample was supposed to be confidential. Any lab that doesn't observe best-practice procedures to keep this sort if information confifential is 2nd rate and I would question any result they publish yet alone one where people are looking for a specific result.”

“RichB, thats what many dopers have been found to be doing. Use EPO to boost hemocrit right to the lip of 50, above 50 and they get busted...below there is no penalty.”

“Sounds like you need a doctor that knows what they are doing to pull that off and gets blood tests often. That might explain why some cyclists have died of heart attacks. Maybe their red cells got too high and were at unhealthy levels for too long. Wasn't Tyler Hamilton under suspension for doping?”

“Yep, tyler is dealing with a hefty suspension (two years maybe?) BUT he actually has a legal leg to stand on. Evidently the type of substance he was alleged to have taken is often in over the counter meds unintentionally, his claim (if memory serves) is that he got a bad batch of meds. I heard that a large amount of the smae batch is going through testing. Sounds fishy though.

Regarding the docs and testing. EPO is great for the off season when testing isnt very common and showing up for tests is voluntary, plus as the DR in Outside mag mentioned it can be hard to find an athelete for testing especially when they dont want to be found...globally.”

“doesn't lance train at altitude pretty often? can that raise the red blood cell count? or does it just make him more efficient at pumping the blood through his body? what's his resting heart beat, around 35?”