This is your government: Spying on YOU!

“I was referred to this article from a link off the MSN homepage today, asking something like "Is your mailman spying on you?"

So..... is this warranted??? Better watch those anti-government statements on TRAILTALK!!



U.S. wants your mailman to snoop on you

By Lisa M. Bowman
Special to ZDNet News
July 17, 2002, 2:25 PM PT

On the heels of plans for new powers to patrol people's Web use, the U.S. government is again turning to technology to monitor suspicious activity in the name of fighting terrorism.
The government has unveiled more details of its Terrorist Information and Prevention System (TIPS), a plan to recruit volunteers across the country who will keep tabs on dubious or suspicious behavior.

"The program will involve the millions of American workers who, in the daily course of their work, are in a unique position to see potentially unusual or suspicious activity in public places," according to the TIPS Web site.
Such workers also could include letter carriers, meter readers and others who would have access to private homes.

Volunteers would report the activity to law enforcement via the Internet or by telephone. The government also has set up a site where people can offer their services to Citizen Corps, a White House-backed community-based volunteer network that includes the TIPS program.

The American Civil Liberties Union, one of several critics of the plan, fears the proposal will encourage racial profiling and vigilantism, possibly leading to searches of private homes without a warrant.

"The administration apparently wants to implement a program that will turn local cable or gas or electrical technicians into government-sanctioned Peeping Toms," Rachel King, an ACLU legislative counsel, said in a statement.

In addition, the database aspect of the plan has raised concerns among security experts who worry people could break in and learn the identities of informants.

The TIPS Web site says "information received will be entered into the national database and referred electronically to a point of contact in each state as appropriate."

On Tuesday, the Department of Justice issued a statement responding to the barrage of criticism about the plan, saying it has been mischaracterized as an army of citizen spies.

Barbara Comstock, director of public affairs for the department, said TIPS "is simply a reporting system" based on other programs in which people are encouraged to give details of suspicious activity in the course of doing their jobs.

"None of the Operation TIPS materials published on the Web or elsewhere have made reference to entry or access to the homes of individuals; nor has it ever been the intention of the Department of Justice, or any other agency, to set up such a program," Comstock said in the statement.

The announcement of TIPS' details comes on top of several other government initiatives that have alarmed some members of the Web community. Six weeks after Sept. 11, Congress passed the U.S. Patriot Act, portions of which gave law enforcement greatly expanded powers to snoop on Internet communications.

In May, Justice Department and FBI officials announced new guidelines that would allow agents to dig for information on Web sites and publicly available databases, even if they're not conducting a specific investigation. The move raised concerns that the government would spy on specific ethnic and activist groups without reason because it would relax guidelines set in the 1970s that discouraged compiling dossiers on people based on their religious or political activities.

This week, Congress passed a bill that would carry a life sentence for some computer break-ins, a plan some have painted as an overzealous attempt to rein in hackers.”

“Ah, the good old smell of McCarthyism! My parents and grandparents remember it well.”

“I thought Clinton was gone.

Well, at least the gov't is looking in other directions now. It may not be right, but at least the heat is off me.

I remember when the BATF was charged to "re-interpret" old laws, and suddenly make legal gear and equipment illegal. I remember the cries that conversevative Christians were racist. (Right, I pray to a JEW!. I believe Israel is God's chosen. Jealous, maybe... Racist? Oh please!)

I remember hiding my health interest in firearms. I remember being afraid to talk about guns, reloading, shooting, and such.

Oh, well. The shoe is on another foot. But, I understand how some people feel.

"I feel your pain."”

“www.abovetopsecret.com

You would fit right in there....”

“Wow, The Federal Government is purposely trying to screw me!

My postmaster knows my name. I get crap from the DNC, destined for communist subversives. The commies get the address wrong, but Martha knows my name. I am officially listed as a liberal sympathizer.”

“Hey, thanks man.

I don't know about fitting in. But, it is interesting, if nothing else.

Only "normal" people would visit that site. Anyone else would be too afraid. LOL!

Also, I suppose that the 'opposite side of the fense' is feeling a little gov't heat, maybe they should visit the site. It would probably help them lighten up a bit.

Hey, most backpackers could certainly stand to lighten up a bit! LOL!”

“"TIPS" reminds me of the snitch system in communist China, where "one watches a thousand, and a thousand watch one."”

“No kidding.

Years ago, I feared people that would not know a machine gun from an automatic rifle from their tail hole.

At least the heat is off there, from a Federal standpoint anyway.

So, I do know what it feels like for some people today.

Oh well...”

“One difference Steve Hiker-our values. It does bear vigilance on the part of us, watchdogs of our government.

I would like it to be more of a neighborhood watch, a formalization of how we all felt after 9/11.”

“"Our values" is exactly why this neighborhood spy system is so disturbing. Do we really want to turn armies of government mail carriers, meter readers, and dorks with too much time on their hands into informants looking to report anything "suspicious"?

I never felt we should become like Red China after 9/11, and do not now. If a g-man puts his nose against in my window he's likely to get shot, even if he's only ostensibly delivering the mail.”

“I never felt we should become like Red China after 9/11, and do not now....
steve hiker
09:53:02 PM
07/19/02



Roger that.”

“Isn't the postal service known for being- well- Postal? Shouldn't someone be watching them? I know I never delivered any anthrax to anyone...”

“Did someone mention the USPS and guns? 8}

For the moment opening mail is sacrosanct and if postal management is smart they will keep it that way. Letter carriers have always reported suspicious activities and illegal material at their discretion BUT frankly carrying a 70 lb sack 10 miles a day leaves little time for nosey-ness.

If the goverment truly wanted to spy with the USPS all that is really needed is a bit of software and a decent search method as we electronicly read addresses and are storing them for sorting but the sheer amount of data we would provide would overload all existing systems so I just dont see much danger in this.

Seems to me this is just another case of the goverment trying to pass a useless program on to our "private" postal system which has trouble enough as it is.

00.02”

“It would seem to me that as good neighbors to one another we would report anything scary without anybody asking us to. I also think that as good neighbors we would not report petty BS.”

“Except maybe dogs that bark all night.”

“TIPS for Ashcroft: Street spies not needed

Monday, July 22, 2002


'Psst. Hey, you. Yeah, you. Come on over here. We gotta talk. Ever think you'd like to be spy? Live the glamorous, undercover life? You would? Well I'm from the government and have I got a deal for you."

Something like that is the pitch the Bush administration and its Grand Inquisitor, Attorney General John Ashcroft, might make to induce ordinary Americans to snitch on their neighbors and friends and anyone else they might encounter to aid the fight on terrorism as part of Operation TIPS.


TIPS stands for Terrorism Information and Prevention System, and it might be the most addlebrained, undemocratic idea to emerge from an American administration since the now-sainted John Adams signed the Alien and Sedition acts 200 years ago.

TIPS, as Ashcroft and his team of gauleiters have designed it, would enlist people whose work and daily life give them free movement and access to homes, businesses and offices -- mail carriers and meter readers, repairmen, utility and cable television crews, truck drivers and deliverymen, among others. Once on the team, they'd be expected to keep tabs on friends, acquaintances and those encountered in daily life and report suspicious activities to a national hotline.

What would constitute "suspicious" activity has not yet been made clear -- or whether suspicious activity would be defined by regulation or left for every would-be vigilante to define for him or herself.

It's hardly a novel idea and certainly not an American one. Actually, it's a European notion, having been employed there for centuries as a standard vehicle for oppression and the suppression of political dissent. Czarist Russia used such a system of neighborhood snitches, as did its Communist successors. The Germans were particularly good at it, as the record of the Nazis and of the Stasi of Communist East Germany can attest.

Its current incarnation can be found in the network of street spies employed by Castro's Cuba in the name of Committees to Protect the Revolution.

The potential for mischief in such a misbegotten system is limitless -- not the least of which is the opportunity for score-settling in Hatfield-McCoy-style neighborhood feuds, in hate-laced racial rows and overheated intra-family battles. Let's face it -- the chance to subject that nasty next-door neighbor to a nighttime visit from your local SWAT team might be too much for weaker minds to resist.

Beyond that lies the problem of information overload. As countless reports have made clear, U.S. police and intelligence agencies suffer no lack of information about terrorism; they're swimming in it. The real problem is one of systemic inability to digest it all and produce a clear picture of what it means and what to expect in time for it to be useful.

All of which raises one large question: What in the name of Thomas Jefferson was Ashcroft thinking when he pulled this one from the Saddam Hussein playbook?

TIPS is the worst kind of overreaction to Sept. 11 and the threat of terrorism. But odds are that this Rosemary's baby of an idea will die in its crib. The American Civil Liberties Union is on the case, which, considering some of the loonier causes the ACLU has embraced, might actually be a boost for TIPS. What's really likely to kill this harebrained business is that conservatives, whom Ashcroft counts on to salute his every excess, seem to think he's finally gone round the bend.

No less a conservative than Rep. Dick Armey of Texas, the Republican House majority leader, carpentered a casket for TIPS last week. The House Homeland Security Committee, which he heads, voted overwhelmingly for legislation that would topple TIPS.

The White House still formally backs TIPS, but even the administration may be having second thoughts if Tom Ridge's comments last week are any clue. Ridge, President Bush's homeland security chief, opined that "the last thing we want is Americans spying on Americans."

That's nice to hear, and bully for Tom Ridge. But wasn't getting Americans to spy on Americans what TIPS was all about? Let's pray Tom Ridge is right. If so, it will be the first time he hasn't been overruled or outmuscled by Ashcroft, a tireless turf warrior and shameless publicity hound who has wrestled most of the homeland security leadership and authority away from him.

TIPS, however, is one homeland security gambit whose authorship Ridge will gladly concede to Ashcroft. For by the time it's buried, TIPS will have acquired a new meaning -- This Is Plain Stupid.


John Farmer is The Star-Ledger's national political correspondent.”

“In Surreal Development, Bush Administration
Routes TIPS Calls to TV Show "America's Most Wanted"
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Tuesday, August 6, 2002

WASHINGTON - In a development bordering on what the American Civil Liberties Union called "surreal," the on-line magazine Salon.com today revealed that the Department of Justice is forwarding incoming Operation TIPS calls to the Fox-owned "America's Most Wanted" television series.

"This is like retaining Arthur Andersen to do all of the SEC's accounting," said Rachel King, an ACLU Legislative Counsel. "It's a completely inappropriate and frightening intermingling of government power and the private sector. What's next - the government hires Candid Camera to do its video surveillance?"

"If it continues to cooperate with the government on Operation TIPS, America's Most Wanted should move networks and rename itself 'Big Brother,'" King said.

The author of the Salon article, David Lindorff, reportedly signed up for TIPS more than a month ago, heard nothing and followed up last week with a phone call to the Department of Justice, the agency responsible for overseeing the proposed program. The department gave Lindorff another phone number, which it said had been set up by the FBI. When he dialed that number, Lindorff was greeted by a receptionist for "America's Most Wanted," which features reenactments of unsolved crimes and then asks the public to phone in leads and tips.

Shocked that the number did not connect to the FBI, Lindorff was told, "We've been asked to take the FBI's TIPS calls for them." The ACLU today said that, not only does the Operation TIPS program on its own pose serious threats to the American ideal that neighbors not be expected to inform on neighbors, but the program, when coupled with the power and profit incentives of television, could enhance its resemblance to Big Brother through sensationalism and the thirst for advertising revenue.

Even before its partnering with Fox Television, the Operation TIPS program has come under a barrage of criticism from both the left and the right. House Majority Leader Richard Armey (R-TX), one of the most powerful and conservative members of Congress, introduced a measure in his chamber's version of the Homeland Security legislation that would prohibit the implementation of TIPS and other similar measures. Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-VT), chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, has also opposed the proposal, saying "We could be vigilant, but we don't want to be vigilantes."

"Why stop with America's Most Wanted?" King added. "If a sensational story is what it was looking for, the Department of Justice should have just hired Jerry Springer as its public information officer."


The Salon article can be found on-line at:
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2002/08/06/tips/index_np.html”

“GEOBEET, what the hell did you tell them about me?”

“rampant paranioa! nuff said”

“The debunker's role is to convince us that there is no conspiracy.

Everything continues as it always has.”

“Just because you're not paranoid, doesn't mean they're NOT out to get you!”

“It does seem a bit Orwellian. I also noticed cameras on overpasses and on street lights when I went home to San Diego last spring. Big Brother IS watching...”

“Why of course they are out to get me.
no need to be paranoid now is there.”

“Last Sunday my brother was cleaning up our parking lot (raking the leaves and washing the dirt into the sewer (we only do this once every 2 or 3 years)). He noticed a policeman in a police car videotaping him. When my brother stared at the cop, the cop put the car into drive and drove away. My bro didn't think too much of this, and continued working. A few minutes later, my bro turned his head and saw the cop taping him from a cross street (about 40 feet away). Now my bro took 2 steps towards the cop. The cop drove away. We thought this was very strange, since there was no "conserve water" policy going on...in any case, if there were, the cop should've given my bro a warning ticket or something. Heck, we're the most water conservative family on the block...we only water the lawn like 3 times a year (half an hour each time) and we don't wash our cars (well actually, my car's been washed 1 time in nine years. My bro's car been washed 2 times in 2 years and my mom's car 4 times in 6 years).”

“suspected terrorist, huh?”

“Yeah, that cop's terrorizing us!!!”

“maybe he was a part time reporter.... :}”

“i think it's britain were there IS actually 1 camera per 20square ft. no question about it. people are videoed 9 or more times a day. this fact is being used to allow more US agencies surviellance opportunities.
new york has hundreds, many more enroute.
join the rest of the world, i guess”

“Nize!”