Have we lost?

“Gerry Spence is one of the premier trial lawyers in the country. He has often taken very unpopular positions. This statement deserves a lot of thought, IMHO.

His view is very interesting.”

“I am speachless!

8|”

“Dangit Boy! "grunt"”

“Whoa! The great man is, of course, correct. This is a battle that cannot be won with bombs and bullets. How then, shall we prevail?”

“Never been a Gerry Spence fan.

I wonder if Omar Khadafi would agree with Mr Spence? Ron Reagan put a boot up his @ss and we haven't heard a peep since.

Quotes from lawyers belong in law libraries and punch lines.”

“I am not defeated.
I am not "terror stricken."
I am aware of the power of hate and choose to not give it power over me.
This is not news. The Bible speaks of it, the Torah speaks of it, the Koran speaks of it, Buddah spoke of it.

BUT

I WILL defend myself vigorously.”

“Wasn't Pan Am 103 bombed *after* we bombed Khadafi?”

“What did I speak of?”

“I wonder if Spence still wears that brown leather jacket having strips of leather danglies that he use to ALWAYS be seen wearing?”

“no, we have not lost and we have restrained our immense power, using what is necessary to render terrorists (temporarily) impotent and to protect our interests. regardless, we must be very wary of the freedoms we are circumscribing here. the real enemy may end up being our own system.”

“jmitch speaks truth. But I believe the American people will see their way through this and do whatever is in their best interests. The people of this nation drift back and forth like a pendulum between one side of the political spectrum to the other and then back again. Whatever we give up to accomplish our immediate goal will ultimately be reclaimed, a price to have paid.

To me it is not stooping to hate, but to refuse to be cowed by violence. The victims of the attack and the martyrs who died on the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania died because of hatred. Our war is not against nations or even people. It is against the very hatred Spence spoke about.”

“jmitch, I concur with your thoughts.”

“Tilt, bacpac is not going to answer your question. The answer is yes.”

“His words are very poetic but his basic premise is flawed. We are not engaged against the abstract concept of ‘Hatred’. We are engaged against real people who are intent upon doing us more harm. They don’t seek to rob us of our way of life – they seek power for themselves as heads of a worldwide theocracy. The would-be tyrants of the last century were not defeated through negotiation and neither will today’s.

His warnings against giving up our liberties and insistence that our government continue to act with our consent are good ones. I don’t think that dissent is dead, it was just sleeping for a while as we were in a nationwide state of shock. Our elected representatives have once again found their voices. If another large-scale attack should take place, I hope that more of us will be able to keep our heads. Adversity can build character.

I do share his vision of a just world and hope that we can continue to bring the elusive dream of idealists of all ages to life. A prosperous and free planet will find fewer malcontents than a desperate and hopeless one. There will, however, never be a day when all of the world’s citizens will respect the rule of law – they will have to be opposed with force – there is no other way.”

“Justice does not need to be delivered with hatred. In fact handing out a punishment with cold deliberation and very little emotion can be very scary!”

“Interesting, jmitch.

To be honest, freedom is important enough to me to allow for small-scale terrorist attacks as a consequence. In fact, we've seen some of this already with the Pearl killing and the church bombing in N. Africa. If that sort of thing is the price for our constitutional freedoms, then I'm willing to pay it.

What we have to guard against is the mass destruction type terrorism. There were signals leading up to WTC. Shoot, we had one of the bombers in jail. No more innocence, eh? I think a free, but aware society can stop that stuff.

I think the biggest problem we have is a lack of ethics and values in our system. We have allowed our foreign policy to be dictated by economics. If it brings in more money, let's do it. It's no wonder much of the world is resentful towards us.

This same type of amoral climate is proving to be pervasive in our businesses domestically. If our economy were strong and ethically-structured, you could drive a plane into it and it would survive. Unfortunately, our corporations and government were weak.”

“Violin, while I agree with your statements in your second and third paragraph; I believe that the quickest road to victory, for those who have attacked us, is to destroy the fabric of freedom that we have taken for granted. Ultimate victory, from their standpoint, can only come after we have suffered radical changes in our "way of life". While I don't believe that is their ultimate end, I do believe they fully intend to use it as a mean.”

“I believe the overall sentiment of the article is that hatred is to be the downfall of us all unless we can overcome it and make decisions that are not at all influenced by this emotion. Unfortunately, I think it is an innate part of our being. It has always existed, at least from the credible history I have read, and will continue to. I think hate can be supressed and for the most part, due in large part to social norms and laws, acts of hatred are not continuously pervasive in open society.

But get rid of hatred? That's a pipe dream.”

“I certainly hope that I can teach my children not to hate.”

“ME, too, Chili. And I think that is admirable. I will do everything in my lifetime tho to stop it.

I'm just taking the glass is half-empty stance for the human race as a whole.”

“In reading the article, it appeared to me that the concepts of war are not the root cause of our problems on this planet. They are a symptom of hatred.

What struck me the most was that despite our efforts to protect ourselves, we shouldn't give in to the temptation to hate a group or religion or even individuals. Self defense and preservation of liberty should be based on a unwaivering desire to create a better place, not in a desire to extoll revenge.

That is what I read into the article.”

“Stop hatred why? Hatred is needed to balance some of the other emotions. To stop hatred is to put an end to LOVE. With out one the other cannot exist! IMHO. It is the negative things that people do with that hatred that is the problem. A lot of good things have come from our emotions. Teach all the emotions and how to live with them and the world will be a better place to live.”

“the unfortunately reality is that humanity is inherently flawed with greed, intolerance, and hatred. moral perfection will never be realized by humanity as a whole; individuals may come pretty close.

i think americans have done a fairly good job at not extolling revenge on muslims. there have been relatively few instances of such crimes, even fewer than during the gulf war. of course, there is always room for improvement.

america's greatest vulnerabilities come from within, not from an attack by outsiders. There is still intolerance among Americans in regards to race, religion, ethnicity and sexual orientation. we must be mindful not to advocate the same intolerance that terrorists try to perpetrate.”

“But grunt, what are the good things brought on by hatred? I think love is an emotion unto itself, independent of hatred.”

“I agree with rosey and jmitch.

jmitch, your last paragraph is very well said.”

“You can’t have one without the other all things in balance. Hatred for the Russian lead us into space . Hatred of a cancer leads us to a cure. Hatred is not a bad thing. Hatred uncontrolled or focused in the wrong direction is the problem not the emotion. Again I believe focused hatred in a positive direction can and is often a positive thing. As misguided love has and will continue to destroy.”

“Tilt, bacpac is not going to answer your question. The answer is yes."
chili36
08:12:17 AM
07/24/02

What do you mean I won't answer the question? What a jerk.

The answer is yes.”

“I wonder if Omar Khadafi would agree with Mr Spence? Ron Reagan put a boot up his @ss and we haven't heard a peep since.
bacpac
07:51:16 PM
07/23/02


Wasn't Pan Am 103 bombed *after* we bombed Khadafi?"
Tilt
09:05:18 PM
07/23/02


The answer is yes."
bacpac
12:41:05 PM
07/24/02


Well, I admit I was mistaken. Bacpac did impeach himself.”

“Also, if I recall correctly, the nightclub bombing of US servicemen in Italy which sparked the raid on Tripoli was later found to be carried out by a Palestinian group, not Khadafi.”

“According to Lorin Partridge Killing People Is No Big Deal and War Is Groovy.





”

“What a wack job.”