Snake bites

“Common sense to most of us, but still an interesting read:

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UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND DOCTORS DISCOURAGE OUTDATED FIRST AID MEASURES FOR TREATING POISONOUS SNAKEBITE--Article in New England Journal of Medicine Stresses Immediate Medical Attention

In the movies, the victim of a venomous snakebite is often saved by a quick thinking companion who applies a tourniquet, cuts the skin, sucks out the poison, and spits it on to the ground. It makes for a dramatic scene, but it is not good medicine, according to an article in the New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM) on August 1, authored by physicians at the University of Maryland School of Medicine in Baltimore, and the Rocky Mountain Poison Center in Denver.

"Incision and suction as first aid measures are strongly discouraged," says Robert A. Barish, M.D., F.A.C.P., F.A.C.E.P., an emergency department physician who is associate dean for clinical affairs at the University of Maryland School of Medicine. "Following any venomous snakebite, the victim should be moved out of harm's way, and transported to the nearest medical facility as soon as possible."

"Victims of venomous snakebites require aggressive emergency medical care and if necessary, the administration of antivenom to fight the potentially fatal poison," says Barry S. Gold, M.D. F.A.C.P., clinical assistant professor of medicine at the University of Maryland School of Medicine and lead author.

"The evidence suggests that cutting and sucking, or applying a tourniquet or ice does nothing to help the victim," says Dr. Barish, a co-author of the study. "Although these outdated measures are still widely accepted by the general public, they may do more harm than good by delaying prompt medical care, contaminating the wound or by damaging nerves and blood vessels," Dr. Barish adds. The article was also co-written by Richard Dart, M.D., Ph.D., F.A.C.P., associate director of the Rocky Mountain Poison Center.

The American Association of Poison Control Centers estimates that there are 2,000 venomous snakebites every year in the United States, but because many cases go unreported, the number may be as high as 8,000, say Dr. Barish and Dr. Gold, who are recognized authorities in the treatment of venomous snakebites. Of the reported venomous snakebites each year in the U.S., five or six are fatal. Deaths typically occur in children, the elderly, or when antivenom is not given, is administered too late, or is given in insufficient doses.

Snakebites are most common in the spring and summer, when snakes are active and people are engaged in outdoor activities such as hiking or camping. The typical victim is a 17-to 27-year-old male. Most of the bites are on the upper extremities, resulting from a deliberate attempt to handle or disturb the snake. Studies have shown that alcohol intoxication is a factor in many venomous snakebites.

Of the 120 species of snakes indigenous to the United States, about 20 are venomous. Most are pit vipers such as rattlesnakes, copperheads and cottonmouths. The composition and harmful effects of the venom vary with the species, age of the snake, geographic location and time of year. Rattlesnakes and cottonmouths are more venomous than copperheads.

"Pit viper venom is a chemically complex mixture of proteins that damage blood vessels and blood cells, and can cripple the cardiovascular, respiratory, and nervous systems," says Dr. Gold, who is also a toxicology consultant to the Maryland Poison Center. Symptoms usually emerge within 30 to 60 minutes of the bite, but may be delayed for several hours. They include pain and swelling followed by nausea, vomiting and weakness. Severe symptoms include low blood pressure, difficulty breathing and shock.

The most common reaction to snakebite is fear. Many people believe that any bite from a poisonous snake will lead to illness or death. But in fact, 25 percent of all pit viper bites are "dry" and do not result in envenomation. Since the advent of antivenom, the death rate from pit viper bites has declined from five to 25 percent in the 19th century to less than one half of one percent today.

The timber rattlesnake and the copperhead are the only two venomous snakes found in Maryland. Of the three deaths attributed to snakebite in Maryland history, two were caused by bites from cobras that were owned by the victims. Cobra venom is very lethal because it attacks the central nervous system directly, causing paralysis.

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“I wouldn't have to worry about treatment if I got bit.....

I think I would have a heart attack immediately. The few times I have walked upon a rattlesnake, copperhead or cotton mouth, my heart has pounded so hard I had ringing in my ears. If I had been bitten, it would have sent me over the edge.”

“hmmm...interesting. i still thought you were supposed to suck out the poison! we were just talking about that the last backpacking trip, and i said i would suck it out of someone else. who knew! (okay, probably everyone here but me.)

i hear ya chili, i'm terrified of them too! i really like bugs and animals and stuff, but snakes and spiders are enough to give me a heart attack, just looking at them.”

“Okay, so what's in the snakebite kits you see in sporting goods stores?”

“I've known that for years. I don't feel threatened by snakes. Copperheads usually retreat quite smartly. Rattlers coil in a defensive position and will rattle and look mean, but you can walk around them at a respectable distance and they will not make an aggressive move.

The greatest poisonous snake threat presents itself while climbing rocks, or putting the hand up to grab a rock overhead. I've nearly stepped on copperheads and they just boogied out of the way smartly.

Skeeters, black flies, and no-see-ums are a greater threat to me.”

“"Okay, so what's in the snakebite kits you see in sporting goods stores?"
Indiana John
09:40:48 AM
08/01/02


A waste of money! :-)”

“So most snakebite victims are drunk Bubbas doing the "Hey y'all, watch this!" thing.

Looks like I'm safe.”

“I can remember when this was common in the south.”

“What I want to know is, what the heck are you suppose to do if you're hiking solo and you get bit and you're miles from the nearest help. Are you suppose to walk out, which will probably speed up the poison.”

“Anybody remember the Woody Allen flick, "Bananas"? A bunch of guys are getting guerilla warfare training (am I remembering this right?), including what to do if bitten by a snake - suck out the poison. Just then, a woman runs in, holding her breast, shouting, "I've been bitten by a snake!" All the guys chase after her. Ha ha. Well, at least it seemed funny when I saw it as a teenager....”

“Don't forget that double shot of strychnine!


I sometimes carry antivenin in case I run into an ex-girlfriend, LOL”

“What I want to know is, what the heck are you suppose to do if you're hiking solo and you get bit and you're miles from the nearest help. Are you suppose to walk out, which will probably speed up the poison."
Rugerman
09:57:07 AM
08/01/02

Yes”

“Depends on how far. If you're a three day hike from anywhere, I've heard it's best just to settle up next to a water source and prepare for 24-48 hours of excruciating pain. If you're with someone, send them on to get help. At least that is the case for most pit viper bites. Most likely they won't kill yas but they sure will hurt for a while.”

“Most healthy adults will not die from pit viper venom. Several factors are at play: the snakes do not inject enough venom to kill a healthy adult and most adults hiking in the hinterlands are healthy.

Now, that does not mean that you will not get sick. The standard interpretation is that you might wish you were dead, but you will not die.

I think the advice is to walk out and get help as soon as you can.

Informatively, the number of people who die from snake bite in the U.S. every year is infinitely small. You stand a better chance of being struck by lightning, and that chance is slim.

Old people, very young kids, and people with health issues are at risk if they are bitten. Those people should be gotten to medical help as quickly as possible.”

“Whenever somebody tells me backpacking is dangerous, and asks what would I do if, etc., etc., I tell them I have a much higher probably of being killed in a car accident on the way to the trailhead than dying for any reason after I get on the trail.

I suppose I could ask them what they would do if they were trapped in a car after an accident...”

“Or staring down the barrel of a gun held by a mugger. Or trapped in a burning building.”

“Why do people think I'm anti-social when I ask them questions like that? lol....”

“I think the real message here is leave em alone and they wont bother you. Bluntly put the venom they generate is for catching dinner and they would prefer not to waste it on some big oaf sticking his/her hand in their nest!

Rubber snakes are more deadly at times :P”

“Yah. One of my bosses pulled a practical joke on the woman who watered the hanging plants in his office area. He put one of those fake snakes in one of them.

Scared her so bad she fell off the ladded and broke her arm.”

“I'm pretty sure those snakebite kits sold in sporting goods stores are really intended for the sexually adventurous.”

“I'll bet this guy wishes he had lyra along with him.”

“It's nature's way of keeping the idiot population in check.”

“ah yes alchohol and snakes... darwinism at its finest!”

“ew eewww EEWWW EEEEWWWWWWW!!!!!!


Pee S. EW!


"a blood-curdling scream," LMAO!!”

“"quick hunny... suck the poison out" ?”

“That was the old joke where the guy returns to his friend and says, "The doctor says you're gonna die!"”

“What? What?

He's only 63.”

“you're right...tempting. no wait, EEWWW!!!!!!!”

“I fail to see what is "tempting" about any part of this thread...”

“American Family Physician, Patient Education-Snakebite Prevention and First Aid

I've been around snakes for a long, long time. Even had one wrap around my wrist in the dark when Iwas a kid. Never been bit.”

“was it your warm prsonality?”

“the lil yellow snake bite kits have 3 suction cups..a tourniquet, a scapel, and an alchohol vial

and like said above...the suction cups kick ass in foreplay...and the fact their are 3 just goes to show they knew what pple would use them for!!”

“Anyone used a Sawyer Extractor?”

“Never had any sawyers to extract.

Hahahahahaha,...”

“I ain`t afraid of snakes, or bug, or toads, or worms, or mice
and things that girls are afraid of, I think are awful nice


From a poem,...I don`t know the author:(


BUT, I`m not brave enough to open that link of Violin`s!LOL


I got snake bit a hundred years ago as a youth. I was riding a horse at the time and I got it in the knee. the snake`s fangs hung in there and had to later be pulled off. It was a cottonmouth and madder`n a hornet even when we got it pulled free of me. Sucker still tried to bite us and chased after us. We got it killed and I hauled on up to the house and got taken to the doctor.

Yup, one of those snakebit kits thingies is what he used on me. I was lucky he kept saying as he drew the crud outa me, it`d jell as soon as it hit the pan. Lucky for me it went in under the knee-cap and didn`t hit anything, kinda like water on the knee he said:)

Doc was right, I was lucky,... cause mother fainted dead away, hit her head on the edge of the table and they quit working on me and had to attend to her, lucky for me I wasn`t in a bad way:)”

“My Mother-in-law travels with a leather-case snake bite kit in the trunk of her car that consists of a fith of whiskey and glasses. (Comes in handy for that evening ditch ;) )

But nevermind that Benny!

I was trained by an EMT who promoted the idea that a high voltage, low current shock to the snake bite rendered the venom inert. In fact, some people carry a stun-gun just in case of snake bite.

Unfortunately, I cannot find scientific support of shocking the snake bitten victom (entertaining though it may seem).

Just in case you've heard the same tale, DON'T DO IT!

In addition to Pathman's fine link, here's another that has some interesting points on what NOT to do:

SNAKEBITE EMERGENCY FIRST-AID INFORMATION”

“I've heard that baby snakes are more dangerous, because they are less adept at knowing what is the correct amount of venom to inject. That said I was on a little walk near my house w/ Newergirl in the Kelty about 1, 1 1/2 months? ago and I came across a baby rattler. I actually ran w/ that stupid Kelty kid carrier on my back. I was sure it would bite me and injected far too much venom.”

“im not sure what the dr would do but im trained as an emt. lightly constricting bands above and below the wound if on an extremity. i said lightly. they actually use one of those suction cup things but do not cut the wound and suck. and don't spend your time doing any of that stuff. the most important part is getting to a doctor. the other things just try to keep the venom out of your bloodstream as long as possible but it will still get in there.
if you get bit by a rattler there is a very very good chance you'll lose some part of your body for good. not that you definitely will but the chances are high, even with prompt medical care.”

“Baby Snakes
Late at night is when they come out
Baby Snakes
Sure you know what I'm talkin' about
Pink 'n' wet
They make the best kinda pet
Baby
Baby
Snakes”

“with small (baby) rattlers, it's not how much venom....the concentrated levels of venom in a young snake are higher than those of an adult....a week ago Thursday a buddy had a cottonmouth jump in his canoe, it was nothin' but a-hole and elbows getting out the other end...FITHWLMAO (falling in the water laughing my...)”

“Plus, I have read, the fangs of the baby snakes are not as developed/hardened so they can break off in the bite more readily, creating a nasty infection.

Josh is right. In college, they had this series of photos from the 50s in the science lab. They were of some poor shmuck in the hospital with a snake bite on his arm and showed the progression of the bite in about 12 frames. Basically it swelled, turned black, burst and most of his hand and arm rotted off in a 48-72 hour period. I'll never forget those images.”

“Man nearly loses his life after kissing rattlesnake

11/19/02

HOLLEY GILBERT TheOregonian

VANCOUVER -- When Matthew D. George decided to kiss his young rattlesnake, he made a near-fatal mistake.

"Snakes are attacked every day in the wild, and the first thing they see is a predator's eyes," said Richard Ritchey of Sandy, who has worked with reptiles for 25 years.

"They're going to bite."

And bite the rattlesnake did -- right on George's upper lip.

The 21-year-old, unemployed Yacolt man was in serious condition Monday at Legacy Emanuel Hospital & Health Center.

He was in critical condition Sunday when LifeFlight brought him in. Richard Wilson, a paramedic with North Country Emergency Medical Service, called for the helicopter after he saw swelling from the venom spread so quickly up George's face and down his neck that he knew George's breathing was threatened.

Luckily, George lives about two minutes from North Country's main station in Yacolt, in northeastern Clark County.

"Had he lived out a little more, I strongly suspect he would not have survived because the swelling would have swelled his airway shut," Wilson said Monday.

Swelling aside, experts say another danger of rattlesnake venom is that it destroys cells, causing excessive bleeding and tissue death.

No emergency responders carry antivenin, the antitoxin for snake venom, Wilson said.

Fortunately, Emanuel and OHSU Hospital stock doses of an antivenin called Crofab. Emanuel usually gets one rattlesnake bite patient a year, and although George was the second for 2002, Emanuel had enough antivenin on hand to treat him, a hospital spokeswoman said.

The snake met its end when George's friend, Jim Roban, cut its head off, police said.

Roban couldn't be reached for comment Monday.

It was Wilson's second rattlesnake bite patient. He encountered his first while working in Eastern Washington.

Knowing rattlesnakes are not indigenous west of the Cascade Mountains, Wilson was skeptical when he responded to a call about 1:30 a.m. Sunday to the East Yacolt Road home that George shares with his father, Dale.

"I hadn't heard of a rattlesnake bite in years," Wilson said. "I didn't expect to find a rattlesnake bite. I still can hardly believe it."

George was showing off to Roban the young rattlesnake he'd brought home three or four weeks ago from the Arizona desert when the kiss turned sour, the Clark County Sheriff's Office reported. He was conscious, but upset when the paramedic arrived about four minutes later. Only his upper lip was slightly swollen.

But the snake's venom moved so quickly through his face's extensive blood vessel system that, two minutes later, George began to slip in and out of consciousness, Wilson said. His lip swelled to about five times its usual size, and within minutes the swelling engulfed his cheeks and ears and forced his eyes shut, he said.

Wilson inserted a tube down George's throat to keep his airway clear. Eventually, George's neck swelled to his chin, he said.

"He sustained a life-threatening dose," Wilson said.

The reason is that, unlike adults, young rattlesnakes can't control the amount of venom they inject, said Mary Esther Hart-Brown, who owns Hart's Reptile World in Canby.

Hart-Brown places the blame squarely on the human.

A rattlesnake "is meant to bite," she said. "That's how it makes its living.

"Obviously that person shouldn't have had that snake to begin with."

State law bars the unauthorized entry of nonnative animals, said Dennis Davidson, chief investigator for Clark County Animal Control.

To keep one, a person must obtain an annual license for $100 and submit an application that demonstrates he has proper training and can meet certain standards of care, Davidson said. Otherwise, the owner must get rid of the animal.

George did neither, Davidson said.

Nonpoisonous king snakes, rat snakes, boas and pythons can make good pets, Hart-Brown said. Rattlesnakes don't, generally.

She said six types of rattlesnakes live in the Arizona desert.

Ritchey of Sandy figures George picked up a Western diamondback, the most plentiful rattler found there.

Had it been a Mojave, "He'd be dead right now," he said.

Even if George had handled the young rattlesnake safely other times, each time can be a different story.

"It's a wild animal and totally unpredictable," Ritchey said. "If they didn't bite or protect themselves, they'd be extinct.

"So who's responsible? The one with the bigger brain."”

“what a jack@ss!”

“That snake almost helped clean up the gene pool.”

“Sharp as a ball.”

“The on e with the bigger brain would be the snake, Violin...”

“You know your in trouble when someone says "hey guys watch this"

He might qualify for the Darwin Award”

“Natural selection foiled by emergency medicine again.”

“Stooooooooooopid!!”

“Am I the ONLY one who feels sorry for This dood?


































NOT!”