You have NO rights

“Rights trampled in U.S., report says

Washington showed 'stunning disregard for democratic principles' since Sept. 11

By PAUL KNOX

Thursday, August 15, 2002 – Print Edition,

U.S. authorities deliberately trampled constitutional rights after Sept. 11 in a crackdown that saw immigrants jailed without cause, tried in secret and, in some cases, physically abused, a leading human-rights group has charged.

In a report to be released today, Human Rights Watch accuses President George W. Bush's government of displaying "a stunning disregard for the democratic principles of public transparency and accountability" in its response to the terrorist attacks on New York and Washington.

It says authorities rounded up at least 1,200 people because of their religion or ethnic background, jailed them on immigration charges to deny them rights normally enjoyed by accused persons, and held many in harsh isolation conditions.

In court documents or interviews with the group's researchers, several detainees said they were beaten by interrogators or by fellow inmates acting with apparent impunity, the report says. Others told of humiliating treatment and verbal abuse.

The 99-page report, titled Presumption of Guilt, says the government has violated the same principles of freedom that Mr. Bush said were attacked by hijackers who flew airplanes into the World Trade Center and Pentagon.

"The country has witnessed a persistent, deliberate and unwarranted erosion of basic rights against abusive governmental power," it adds.

Despite the massive dragnet that mainly targeted Muslim, South Asian and Middle Eastern men, none of those detained after Sept. 11 has been charged with a terrorism-related offence.

The report says it is difficult to document cases of physical abuse because there is little independent access to detainees.

But it cites a Roman Catholic citizen of the Ivory Coast, Tony Oulai, who told a Human Rights Watch researcher he was repeatedly beaten on Sept. 17 in a Florida detention centre to the point where he was "begging for my life" and bleeding from the nose, mouth and ears.

A Pakistan-born, legal U.S. resident charged with larceny, Qaiser Rafiq, told the group he was beaten three times by inmates in a Connecticut jail after a local newspaper article said he was suspected of involvement in terrorism. Guards saw the beatings but took no action, he said.

Human Rights Watch, a private New York-based monitor of rights guaranteed in domestic and international law, called on authorities to release the names of all detainees and to stop targeting suspects solely because of racial origin.

The group's U.S. advocacy director, Wendy Patten, said in an interview that authorities used immigration charges to make an "end run" around the safeguards and court scrutiny ensured in criminal cases.

By holding suspects on immigration charges, authorities avoided having to give reasons for arresting suspects, bring them before a judge within 48 hours and provide court-appointed lawyers.

According to government figures, 752 of those detained in the United States after Sept. 11 were eventually charged with immigration violations and most of those have been deported. But some spent weeks in jail before being freed.

The report takes a shot at the official contention that revealing the names of detainees would allow terrorist groups to chart the progress of investigations. Any illegal group would find out quickly if one of its members were arrested, it says, also noting that U.S. authorities freely provided information to the embassies of countries whose citizens were arrested.

You have no rights and your vote doesn't count.

IMPEACH BUSH NOW”

“You have no brains!”

“By holding suspects on immigration charges, authorities avoided having to give reason for arresting them? Wait a minute- If they were being held on immigration charges- Never mind.
The last presidential election showed me that my vote doesn't count, but it didn't matter much to me anyway, since if things had turned out differently, Gore would have won. I did some checking, and it turns out that he's a politician too. They all suck, and lie, and sleep with whores and don't pay them, and then they kiss babies the next day without washing their faces. I'm not saying these people should have been imprisoned, I don't agree with that at all. The job can get tough sometimes- What would you have done in the face of a major attack on your own country, if you were in charge? Remember, you have to do something decisive enough, nothing wussy like make a speech. Some ass has to be kicked, or you will be assassinated for being incompetent.”

“Hey you military moron your use to having no rights what do you care?

The rest of us should impeach the incompatent bastard!”

“hmm. I've been insulted by a jr- Not the first time or the last. I am not a military moron, I did earn a couple of promotions while I was in, I left as a military idiot. Besides, when you call someone a moron, you really should check the spelling in the next sentence. It helps with appearing smarter than the person you're trying to piss off.”

“USA = China ???

Print Edition, ??? of what? Where is a link to the source?

Human Rights Watch ??? Who or What is that?

IMPEACH BUSH NOW ??? On what grounds?
---------------------------
This is old news that you are pushing? For what? Shove off, trouble-maker, and get lost!”

“Must be sore loser. Some people are so upset over gore losing the election they have gone whacko.”

“Nah, he probably would have wanted Gore impeached the moment he did anything questionable too. These political things always crack me up- Besides, he still hasn't said what he would have done if he were president.”

“While we may have no rights, b-p'er junior obviously has no brains.”

“This is old news. He may have just discovered a copy of the article, likely a reprint. Regardless, he is a troll, an A/H, and only trying to stir things up with a controversial subject.”

“that was handled well.”

“Yeah old news and you people sit around like its nothing. When he comes to your house and imprisons your children maybe you will care.”

“"An immigration violation should not give the government license to rip up the rule book. By restricting judicial oversight and blocking public scrutiny, the government has exercised virtually unchecked power over those it has detained."
Jamie Fellner Director, U.S. Program”

“Thanks- I don't know why people take these things so seriously. Why don't we change this into a worthwhile thread- Where are the best backpacking views in your area? I want to go across the country sometime and hit a bunch of real nice spots. I need to get me a list together.”

“He can't take a hint!!!

That USA = China was an immediate tip-off as to what he is. But he succeeded in agitating me since I have numerous Chinese relatives and friends. Adios, idiot.”

“I live in the Calif. area right now, floating round a bit. I'll email ya some cool links to pix I got, some great views. Love your posts, BTW ;)

BP Jr- If you believe everthing you read just 'cos it sounds official-

backpacker jr is nothing more than an STD, top scientists at NASA say. Also, he couldn't please a woman if his life depended on it.

Al Gore, appearing on CNN, interviewed by the pope.”

“I have a damn good right, and a pretty good left, too.”

“So go live in China, you commie fatso!

You want our human rights record to look like theirs?”

“I'd have to say Wittenburg, where you and I hiked last weekend with Wolfman's Brother and Jmitch. We still have to hit Breakneck Ridge, that dayhike I was telling you about before. Lots of scrambling, it's a lot of fun, you'd love it.”

“efilnikufesin lou.”

“Anthrax, I remember the old days.

Sounds cool, Artex. Gotsta get together for that one. Ever since getting back into this, I've been itching to do more. I can quit whenever I want, though. I only do it for the pharmaceutical benefits. You know.”

“Oh yeah, and go live in China, you commy.”

“Wow, that was quick-
Thanks for the cool pix. Which one are you, the one in the skirt or the dress? Whichever of the two, you guys have to be sisters, am I right?”

“"An immigration violation should not give the government license to rip up the rule book."

No rule book has been ripped up! The government has operated within the law.

"When he comes to your house and imprisons your children maybe you will care."

You are drawing conclusions and trying to incite. This statement has been published long ago, too. You're old!

I checked out yout reference. To me it appears to be a typical group of agitators, people who look for a Cause that will allow them to protest and get their names in print. These types of groups are not interested in the people, but in their own publicity.

The Cause is just anything that allows them to make waves.

BTW, do you have white sheets, tattoos and a shaved head?

SUPPORT YOUR PRESIDENT.

I'd like to help you out. Which way did you enter?”

“Support your country not your president you blind fool! They operated within the law after they changed the law!!!

Wake up and smell the coffee a police state is coming.”

“Easy, slim, it's only a troll. It's real tempting to feed 'em, but if ignored, they generally go away. They thrive on the attention they get from inflaming peoples' passions.

Then again, there's Marvin Gardens...”

“Hey Geobeet, mebbe we could ship Psycho Squirrel over to jr's house. The two rodents deserve each other, LOL.”

“well then, i guess you'll have to move to china.

prez can't please all the people all the time.

how's that java smell?

there's nothing to win here jr.”

“Uh oh. This guy might have a point. George W. just came into my house and imprisoned my children.

Wait a minute. I don't have kids.
Laws change, you monkey. Remember when there were slaves, and now there's not? Oh, let me guess. Now we're all slaves, right?

You've done some reading, you little troll, and for that you get a little gold star your mommy can put on the fridge. Excellent book report, you get a pat on the head and a smile. Now go to bed and dream of conspiracies and being listened to.

Hey corp, glad you liked the pictures. I am the one on the left.”

“Your right, Father Goose. I had nothing to do, so I decided to play with him He really stinks, the way he jumps around with old news and statements. He is very inconsistent and, obviously, incapable of presenting anything other than flames. Maybe I should have told hme about my relatives in or from Sweden, Panama and England. Then I could have added the countries in which I have lived and/or visited extensively. More interesting would be all the countries and states where I have had girlfriends. Then, to which old country would he direct me.

Have a good night. I've had enough.”

“All the countries and states where you had girlfriends? Hmmmmmm, the little dweeb could be one of your children, ROTFLMBO! May you should be nicer to him...













Oh, my gawd I crack myself up!”

“goose- do you have any serious bones in you?”

“From time to time, but not when dealing with trolls. They are not worth the energy to devote serious thought to. You're new, aren't you?
BTW, Goose is the husband of another member. I'm Father Goose, F.G., or anything else Matt will allow you to print on this board. Nice ta meetcha.”

“I should have mentioned all the countries and states where I have had boyfriends!











I could watch all the e-mail pour-in. LOL”

“Slim win the troll-bustin' prize, LOL!”

“Uh, that should have ben 'won', dagnabbit!”

“Sheesh, I give up, LOL.”

“likewise
newbie here. i hunt and pek. have a habit of abbrieviations and shorting names. sorry bout that. not big on grammer, spelling, or punctuation either.
going for speed and content not appearance. come as you are.
trolls. i get it. hard to resist. i'm kinda physical when angered. young dog, new triks.”

“I comprende. Welcome to the asylum.”

“COMMENTARY

Camps for Citizens: Ashcroft's Hellish Vision

Attorney general shows himself as a menace to liberty.

By JONATHAN TURLEY, Jonathan Turley is a professor of constitutional law at George Washington University.


Atty. Gen. John Ashcroft's announced desire for camps for U.S. citizens he deems to be "enemy combatants" has moved him from merely being a political embarrassment to being a constitutional menace.

Ashcroft's plan, disclosed last week but little publicized, would allow him to order the indefinite incarceration of U.S. citizens and summarily strip them of their constitutional rights and access to the courts by declaring them enemy combatants.

The proposed camp plan should trigger immediate congressional hearings and reconsideration of Ashcroft's fitness for this important office. Whereas Al Qaeda is a threat to the lives of our citizens, Ashcroft has become a clear and present threat to our liberties.

The camp plan was forged at an optimistic time for Ashcroft's small inner circle, which has been carefully watching two test cases to see whether this vision could become a reality. The cases of Jose Padilla and Yaser Esam Hamdi will determine whether U.S. citizens can be held without charges and subject to the arbitrary and unchecked authority of the government.

Hamdi has been held without charge even though the facts of his case are virtually identical to those in the case of John Walker Lindh. Both Hamdi and Lindh were captured in Afghanistan as foot soldiers in Taliban units. Yet Lindh was given a lawyer and a trial, while Hamdi rots in a floating Navy brig in Norfolk, Va.

This week, the government refused to comply with a federal judge who ordered that he be given the underlying evidence justifying Hamdi's treatment. The Justice Department has insisted that the judge must simply accept its declaration and cannot interfere with the president's absolute authority in "a time of war."

In Padilla's case, Ashcroft initially claimed that the arrest stopped a plan to detonate a radioactive bomb in New York or Washington, D.C. The administration later issued an embarrassing correction that there was no evidence Padilla was on such a mission. What is clear is that Padilla is an American citizen and was arrested in the United States--two facts that should trigger the full application of constitutional rights.

Ashcroft hopes to use his self-made "enemy combatant" stamp for any citizen whom he deems to be part of a wider terrorist conspiracy.

Perhaps because of his discredited claims of preventing radiological terrorism, aides have indicated that a "high-level committee" will recommend which citizens are to be stripped of their constitutional rights and sent to Ashcroft's new camps.

Few would have imagined any attorney general seeking to reestablish such camps for citizens. Of course, Ashcroft is not considering camps on the order of the internment camps used to incarcerate Japanese American citizens in World War II. But he can be credited only with thinking smaller; we have learned from painful experience that unchecked authority, once tasted, easily becomes insatiable.

We are only now getting a full vision of Ashcroft's America. Some of his predecessors dreamed of creating a great society or a nation unfettered by racism. Ashcroft seems to dream of a country secured from itself, neatly contained and controlled by his judgment of loyalty.

For more than 200 years, security and liberty have been viewed as coexistent values. Ashcroft and his aides appear to view this relationship as lineal, where security must precede liberty.

Since the nation will never be entirely safe from terrorism, liberty has become a mere rhetorical justification for increased security.

Ashcroft is a catalyst for constitutional devolution, encouraging citizens to accept autocratic rule as their only way of avoiding massive terrorist attacks.

His greatest problem has been preserving a level of panic and fear that would induce a free people to surrender the rights so dearly won by their ancestors.

In "A Man for All Seasons," Sir Thomas More was confronted by a young lawyer, Will Roper, who sought his daughter's hand. Roper proclaimed that he would cut down every law in England to get after the devil.

More's response seems almost tailored for Ashcroft: "And when the last law was down and the devil turned round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? ... This country's planted thick with laws from coast to coast ... and if you cut them down--and you are just the man to do it--do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then?"

Every generation has had Ropers and Ashcrofts who view our laws and traditions as mere obstructions rather than protections in times of peril. But before we allow Ashcroft to denude our own constitutional landscape, we must take a stand and have the courage to say, "Enough."

Every generation has its test of principle in which people of good faith can no longer remain silent in the face of authoritarian ambition. If we cannot join together to fight the abomination of American camps, we have already lost what we are defending.


http://www.latimes.com/la-oe-turley14aug14.story”

“thebackpacker jr = Violin”

“nowSlimer --

Without making a single cogent, cohesive arguement you gave a blustery response to Jr.

Fact is the Human RIghts Watch report JUST came out. It is not old news.

The opinion that Vioin cites is from August 14. Also 2 days ago.

How fresh do you want the heaping pile o'sh-t that Bush is serving you.

Do you have a f-ing brain? What kind of a response is "SUPPORT YOUR PRESIDENT. "

It's the country. Not the president.

And the country has laws.

Laws to protect our rights as individuals.

Rights that Ashcroft has suspended.


Did you pay any attention to the blockwatch spying program that Ashcroft has had to backpedal on?? He rolled it out a couple of weeks ago. Perhaps Violin can provide a timely link.

The idea was to have us all, e.g. neighbors, meter readers, plumbers, housekeepers etc. Keep an eye out for suspicious materials while working in someone's house, and then report it. To a TIPS line of some sort.

Nowslimer -- doesn't that sound familiar???? think think think. Keep thinking.

hmmmmmmm. Wait, I've got it!! Maybe the program would be more effective if we have Block Captains in charge of each neighborhood. Does that help Slimer????

BINGO!!!!!! Pre-break up Soviet Union. The KGB ran a great program designed essentially the same way. Hey . . perhaps Fidel could take a page out of our book . ..it's all about SECURITY . . .right Slimer. SECURITY.....

You must be daft.”