New Times are Coming

“it was probably better for her to get stoned so she moved around less. at least she didn't take anyone out with her”

“baume66:

Yes it would still be a Federal violation. Intoxication in public would still be state violation. You could still be fired from any job requiring a drug test and drug tests can now detect any use for up to thirty days or more, or even if you did not smoke any but breathed second hand smoke while at a party. Many companies are now requiring employment contracts that forbid using illegal drugs even while off duty or on vacation.”

“I agree with the ban on marijuana. I think that far fewer people use it than would use it otherwise. And paying for law enforcement/courts is just part of the deal in running a civilized society. I'd prefer to have my pilots, doctors and air traffic controllers thinking clearly.”

“So it's OK if they "tank up" on good ol' legal alcohol before they go to work, I suppose...”

“No. it's not OK. We have too many abused substances in our society now. Adding another one in the name of 'fairness' is a pretty stupid argument.”

“So why not ban alcohol too?”

“If it were possible to do so I would support an alcohol and tobacco ban.

But that would just give liberals two more things to whine about.”

“I think there would be just as many "good ol' boys" in the whiskey-and-tobacco states that would be p*ssed off at another attempt at prohibition as there would be "bleeding-heart liberals" upset at such Draconian measures.

You are aware that Prohibition of alcohol was already tried, right? I thought my comment would come across as ironic, but it seems you missed my point.

Basically, prohibition of "mutually beneficial exchanges" is doomed to failure, unless you want to repeal capitalism and rebuild America on a Stalinist model. But don't take my word for it, read this "Policy Analysis" by an Economics professor at -very- conservative Auburn University.”

“Why could this not have happned 2 years ago??????

Dam!

8(”

“Forrest:

That's not the point. My post acknowledged the impossibility of prohibition. This whole thread is indicative of the lack of integrity and ethics of seemingly an entire generation, and we are now paying the piper for the 'if it feels good do it' philosophy.

In the past this forum has condoned a President committing adultery, insulted religion, bragged of theft, child pornography, vandalism, and a host of other societal ills any sane person would find repugnant. Look at all the posters who DEFENDED the actions of the terrorists in the aftermath of Sept. 11.

The latest debate in the educational world is a student's right to cheat. Business leaders are committing fraud with a clear conscience, emulated by the rank and file employees who steal from their employers then boast of it.

The news is filled with child abductions and pedophilia, and this forum makes jokes about it. Drug legalization is another symptom of a culture in a death spiral. Just visiting this website is akin to walking down skid row and stepping in vomit and excrement.”

“Baume, I heard an interview with the drug "czar" on NPR the other day about this. He stated that it would still be illegal but it (the small amounts being potentially legallized) wouldnt even draw attention of federal agents.”

“i had no idea you felt that way.(as i notice im sitting in a pile of vomit and excriment)”

“gordon, did you ever stop to think that maybe your views are that of a stale, unwilling to change because my way's better than yours generation? i don't want to turn this into an argument, but just because you were taught that marijuana's evil doesn't mean that i have to believe it.
im still wondering why you drag yourself through all that excriment just to get here.”

“"If it were possible to do so I would support an alcohol and tobacco ban.

But that would just give liberals two more things to whine about."

#1: Are you saying its possible to ban marijuana?

#2: I thought you said liberals were all for making laws to control what people do and conservatives were in favor of personal freedom. Have you changed your mind?”

“A big touche for Ped! Doesn't gordon think that we should let the market decide?”

“pass it over here ped, ya bogart....”

“Who says that marijuana prohibition isn't working? Does anyone have stats that show alcohol usage during and after Prohibition? I'll bet that usage was down during and rose after. If that's the case, then it was - in some ways - a success. Of course, it became a politically untenable position.

I've seen enough studies and been to enough drug inservices to know that the effects of marijuana stay in the system for some period afterwards. And I've seen enough college friends of mine totally screw themselves over with the stuff to know that I would never want the stuff to be "okay" in society.

Principle matters.

rl”

“Good job pedxing.”

“Dear friends, Gordon represents the establishments posterboy. He is a slave to the government who likes his chain and has ideas on how to make the chain more restrictive.

At least some of you can see it. I am proud.”

“Women and children are the unseen victims of the drug war. Women are said to be the "hidden body count" and the children are the "unseen victims." Not all drug offenders’ homes are safe environments though and, in many cases, by removing the family member or a child from that home is for the best. Putting people in jail for minor offenses such as possession of marijuana and other soft drugs which are used leisurely by millions, however, is what is destroying so many people’s futures.

Children who lose both parents to the war on drugs will be forced into adoption or an orphanage. The children, in almost all cases, are placed in an environment which is uncomfortable and unnatural to them and they may not receive the proper loving care which their parents had for them. Brothers and sisters are separated, family homes, cars, and savings, are all on the list to be seized by the government, which leaves families without housing, transportation, or financial resources.

But this, of course, is an untracked source of revenue for the government to use on its own secret agendas.”

“and the death spiral continues....”

“Reformed Lurker: Just to set the record straight, to quote Economics Prof. Mark Thornton of Auburn, "Although consumption of alcohol fell at the beginning of Prohibition, it subsequently increased... Alcohol became more dangerous to consume; crime increased and became "organized"; the court and prison systems were stretched to the breaking point; and corruption of public officials was rampant... [These] results are documented from a variety of sources, most of which, ironically, are the work of supporters of Prohibition..."

Rather than post the entire exhaustive document here, I have provided a link to it.

If Prohibition had "worked," then we would still have it as an amendment to the Constitution.

By the way, if prohibiting marijuana use via stiff penalties is the way to go, why not outlaw gun ownership as well? Isn't that the morally correct thing to do? After all, there are something like 17,000 gun-related deaths a year. BTW, I do NOT support such legislation, just as I don't support the failed "War on Drugs."

Finally, how do our conservative members feel about "W" being a felon, in that he used cocaine (and perhaps other drugs) when he was younger? Also, shouldn't the various Bush daughters (known drug users) ALSO have to face the same penalties? Why aren't conservatives clamoring to send THEM to prison?”

“Possession of any amount of marijuana should be a capital offense with the police given the right to execute on the spot.

THAT would be a deterrent! It will sure cut down on repeat offenders.”

“Gee gordon, if that were inacted, we could migrate to a single view nation in about one generation.”

“Brilliant, Gordon. Just brilliant.”

“Thanks for the link, Forrest, I'll take a look at it.

The world is a complicated place. I see no logical inconsistency with some drugs legal and others not. And I don't have a problem with someone being able to get the stuff prescribed. But I can't buy my dad's heart medication without doctor approval. Why should I be able to buy marijuana?

Guns perform a useful role in society - they control deer populations. They should be regulated. I'm not sure what value marijuana adds to society.

Oh, and I half-heartedly voted for Gore. Old line conservative Democrats are cool.”

“I don't know if it has been said, but the organization that represents 70% of the police unions in that state are behind this bill 100%. Quote from the Detroit News/Free Press....”

“Sure, they'd rather spend their time focusing on the real problem with society: violent offenders.”

“Those are valid points reformed lurker. I too have no problem with medical marijuana. It should be regulated along the same lines as codeine or morphine -- a valid medical purpose, but unauthorized use or possession means jail time.

The comparison between marijuana and agricultural hemp is a smoke screen. Fiber hemp has such a low THC content you'd have to smoke a few acres to get high, while marijuana has been so hybridized and genetically modified to maximize THC content that it is totally unsuitable for industrial fiber use. Contrary to what the braindead idiots here claim, the pulp and paper industry is the single largest source of funding for ag fiber research. The American Forest and Paper Association has long lobbied and advocated for hemp.”

“"Look at all the posters who DEFENDED the actions of the terrorists in the aftermath of Sept. 11."

Gordon

How about naming a couple? I don't think anyone did (aside from Spock after he got into troll mode)?”

“"Look at all the posters who DEFENDED the actions of the terrorists in the aftermath of Sept. 11."

Gordon

How about naming a couple? I don't think anyone did (aside from Spock after he got into troll mode)?”

“Well, it's been interesting, folks. Thanks for letting me spout my top off on this. I was surprised at how everyone has kept their cool (for the most part) on such a controversial topic.

I've got to get back to work, my boss is starting to look at me funny (well, funnier than usual). I've got to wrap up a bunch of stuff before the end of the week, 'cause I'm taking off with the wife for two weeks of BACKPACKING in the Wind River range (headed up Lowline Trail to Doubletop-Mountain Trail, and then off-trail into the Thompson/Hidden Lakes area)!

And gordon, this one's for you:

'You know kid, usually when someone pulls sh*t like that, my first reaction is to punch his f*cking lights out.

But you know something?

YOU'RE ALL RIGHT!' :-)”

“(BTW, that's from the movie "Repo Man," just so you know...)”