Huge Problem-O

“Okay, here is the situation: Sometime at the end of last yr. I got a call at the office requesting the person in charge of Accts. Payable (which would be me). I told the woman on the phone that she was speaking to her. She then asked me to verify some address and phone # info for the mill. I said sure and verified. Well, in Feb. of this yr. we recieve this gigantic directory and a bill saying that I authorized the purchase of a 2 yr. ad in it for $285. I look for our supposed ad and it is about 1 mm, in a book w/ literally thousands and thousands of pages. It took me over an hr. to even locate the stinking thing. I realize that the simple address verfication was used as phony authorization for this. I think to myself, "What a bunch of crap, we aren't paying for this. I put the directory away and ignore the whole thing, reasoning that a swindling co. like this probably knows people aren't paying their a$$es. Well, today I got a bill (only the 2nd one) saying it is the sawmill's FINAL NOTICE, that our acct. (we have no acct. w/ them) is 100 and some days past due. We now owe $345.08. So, I call the jerk-offs and raise hell. I request to speak to the woman who supposedly (according to the original "invoice") sold us the ad. I can't speak to her, so they give me to someone else, who says she will try to find out what occured and get back to me. Whatever! I'm sure you'll be right back w/ me, you piece of junk liars. Anyhow, the dilemna is that I never even spoke to my boss about it, because I felt that it was a bunch of swindling crap and would amount to nothing and it is basically part of my job to eliminate his needing to deal w/ such stuff. But now, if this turns out to NOT amount to nothing, he is going to be PISSED OFF about having to pay for a basically non-existent ad and want to kill me for verifying the info. I had no idea that such a verification was going to lead to this and I felt at the time that the way I handled it was correct. Oh my gawd, what would you guys do? Please keep in mind the my boss is not the sit down and communicate like humans type.”

“Ask them to fax you the invoice for the ad you "bought". If they can't produce one, you don't owe anything.

Don't buckle in, that's how they make their money.”

“If it comes up, just tell'em the deal in your most pissed of voice and tell'em that we (the mill) ain't paying for soomething that we didn't order. Then tell'em that your waiting on a call back from them and that you intend on handing there @ss over the the police and theating legal action. Be sure to get red in the face. After that, slamm your fists on your desk while foaming at the mouth. After he walks away in utter shock, call the b@stards up and really do it...”

“im a purchasing agent. i went through that a couple of months ago with one of our branches.
nothing gets paid until my name is on the inv's and of coures the controller.
but here is the thing, i recv'd a inv saying that my branch aggreed to sub. for 2 yrs for about the same $ as you.
there was no way that i was going to pay this. first off we have a person that does all advertising and i would have been told to pay this inv.
so i called the branch and asked what the hell happened. he said he had no idea and did not understand. i called the company back and they said they had it on tape that he said yes to the book. well i said i wanted to hear a copy of the tape. well with that they said it was not the policy(sp) to let the tape leave there office.
so i said NO im not paying for it.
still waiting for them to try and rebill me. im sure its not going to happened. hay send them my way i love to deal with vendors that are wrong!”

“You are not liable for the invoice. DO talk to your boss about what happened. It's better that he find out from you than second-hand should some excrement hit the rotating oscillator, which is unlikely. Do they have your signature on anything? i didn't think so. Don't worry about it.”

“The only advice I would have isn't going to work if he's not 'sit down and communicate like a human' type.

<yikes>


I'd just explain the situation... sooner rather than later.”

“this is a scam so dont get upset at all
i get it all the time.
my fav one is the lady that called me up saying how she new my boss, and she was coming to town to take me to lunch
yadda yadda
then she asked "by the way how many print cartridges did i want her to bring with her when we do lunch?"

so please don't sweat it. tell your boss and if they insist on you paying, direct them to your boss!
power is everything”

“Thanks for the advice. I'm going to wait until this afternoon and call them back if they don't call me. After that I will talk to the Big Man about it. Maple Leaf, I thought of that tape thing too and I will definitely use it when I call back. They know it is crap, or they would have sent several invoices by now. Not one phony one and then a "Final Notice" months later. Bit, the thing is that there is an "ad," but like I said it is about 1 mm and virtually impossible to find. No business owner w/ any common sense would spend money on in ad in this directory.”

“If they insist on getting paid, tell 'em to send you a copy of the invoice and the purchase order with the authorizing signature. That should shut them up.”

“Like Father Goos and Tilt, I think your boss needs to know about this.

Even if he gets pissed off, don't back down on your position. Perhaps he'll even respect your approach if you maintain a level-headed, in-control attitude.

Good luck!”

“no don't call them
let them call you
you will seem desperate
stand your ground and don't play into there game
its all about high presserd sales”

“I'm sure that these swindlers will be punished in the end.”

“if i know im right then i make the first call
after that the ball is in there court.
if they think they can get you to pay by upsetting you and harrassing you then thats what they will do.
so back off and let them make the next move.
one thing i have learnd is make them prove it”

“Hey, Leaf. Can I interest ya in a correspondence course in remedial English? No signature required, we'll bill ya, LOL!
j/k”

“I've got a copy of the original inv. and there is, of course, no signature. It just says, Purchaser: and then my name. Ridiculous. I know it is a scam and I am not caving into paying it, but I am worried about speaking to my boss about it. He likes the freak out and squash the stupid employee's soul approach (he is unusually stressed and has too many irons in the fire, I try not to take it personally).”

“fax it to me ill take care of it :)
FG, leave me alone about my spelling......
i would make newgirl pay for the course if i took it LOL”

“First ask them for their name and ask for as many names in their office.
Then tell that person that unless you get a fax stating that you dont owe em anything,that their name and all the names that she spouted off will be Submitted to the State Attorney general and your own lawyers!!!O ya tell her that this conversation was taped!!That will make em chit their pants.
Ive been stonewalled before and I've had immediate results when I tell em im bringing in the lawyers!!”

“I hate this sort of thing. I can not believe there are entire companies dedicated to swindling.”

“newgirl,
im not kidding about you sending it to me. i would be glad to take care of it.
im better over the phone then my spelling skills”

“Well, that's a whole 'nother thread...

I used to work at a place where the CEO was like that. Eventually, everyone figures out their job is to avoid an ass-chewing from the boss, so little real work gets done, just CYA work. I was fairly insulated from it until my boss started cracking under the strain, so then I went and found someplace else to work.

Anyway, don't give into these ripoff artists. There are a million of them out there who are making money on scams like this, but it's usually just with copier or printer toner, or overpriced office supplies.”

“Thanks Maple. I can handle it. Bit, you are right. That is a whole other thread.”

“aahh man
you took all the fun out of it.
oh well i guess im just going to have to yell at father goose for picking on me!!
:)”

“Newgirl, Hope everything gets worked out. I have my own huge problem-o. I was just moving digital photo files to a new location to burn them on a CD-R and lost an entire folder of photos. I have no idea what happened. They just weren't there after I dragged several items to this new folder. The folder contained 159 pics of our recent alumni reunion. Photos are the only copies and were to be used for two upcoming newsletters and a score of alumni brochures. I just called our computer help desk and they're having trouble with our back-up. I'm screwed!!!!”

“Newgirl, when you tell your boss about it, tell it in a way that assures him you're handling the situation, as it sounds like you already are. Its not going to solve itself overnight, but just let him know you're on the case. Bosses are supposed to like employees who take some of the burden off of them. :) Good luck!”

“that sucks!
sorry but in that department I can't help you.”

“Aaaaah, I love Tues. Not as shocking as Mon., but more horrible in its own way. Right Indiana?”

“maybe not telling your boss might be a good idea.
if this is something you know you can handle, then why tell him.
i have a boss that only wants to be told if i can not handle it. I try not telling her anything.”

“Smiley, he normally does love me because I do that. Deflect lots of annoying calls for him, handle sticky situations, deal w/ disgruntled customers, etc., when something isn't perfect for him though, he acts like you have been the worst employee in the history of the world. Mainly, I am here for the schedule and net surfing.”

“hay i got mooned on monday!!
bet you cant top that!!”

“You said it newgirl! I'd give anything for a manic Monday right now.”

“That is my plan right now Maple. Wait until it looks like I can't get the bastards to back down.”

“What these scammers often do is send the "delinquent" account to a collection agency and report it to the credit bureaus.

It's a nasty business, especially if it appears on an individual's credit report. Glad you didn't give them any of your personal information. You go to get a car loan or home loan, and guess what ... you can't get the loan until you've taken care of this "unpaid debt." Most people just pay the bogus "debt" at that point because it's not worth their time to go through the formal dispute process with the credit bureaus.

Don't have any advise about handling your boss, but if they go to Step 2 (above) to collect their bogus bill, let me know and I'll refer you to a consumer attorney in Montana. Also your company should file a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission, on company letterhead. www.ftc.gov”

“ok newgirl,
just remember ive got your back!”

“I didn't get mooned Maple. That is true.”

“Thanks Steve. I'll keep it in mind.”

“well thats alot better looking then my moon!”

“LOL! Bit, I used a pic. just like for the cover of my lunar phases lab write-up for Astronomy yesterday.”

“I wish I could go back to Monday.

First thing this morning I had a message that the Michigan Department of Environmental Quality wants to change the start date of a VERY LARGE grant project. Original start date was July 15. They want to change it to Sept. 15. Oh wait, but we've already started on the job and have incurred over $20,000 of effort! You mean we might not get reimbursed for that because we started when you told us to, now you're changing your mind? I DON'T THINK SO!!

So, my Tuesday has been less than stellar. :)”

“See Smiley, Tues. is more horrible in a different way.”

“I'm sure Mike McGrathMontana Attorney General would be interested in your story. stevehiker's FTC suggestion is a good one.

We had one scumbag scammer threaten to come blow-up our receptionist's car because she wouldn't give out the serial # on our copier. Our President walked around the corner right as she said "#&%!$ you ass hole" and thought she was talking to a client.

I guess a lot of companies never even catch these phony invoices and just pay up or else these scammers wouldn't exist. Surely your boss should admire how alert you are in defending his interests?”

“Anybody have a time machine? Let's all go back to Monday and start over.”

“Newgirl, you got an e-mail address? I'd like to hear more about your astronomy class. Mine is amy5053@yahoo.com. Gotta get Matt to post that.”

“NO,
more then one full moon a week is bad for your health”

“Most of these scammers count on big companies' right hands not knowing what the left hand is doing. Payable gets in an invoice for something, and so they just pay it without bothering to check it.

It is rather disturbing that there are whole businesses that are founded on the notion of defrauding people.”

“While you're at it, you can drop me off in 1997, LOL


It was a very good year...”

“Looks like lots of good advice above - here's my 2 cents:

Do tell your boss. Say, "By the way, some bogus advertising book is trying to rip us off. I'm handling it - I'll let you know when it's taken care of."

If you talk to them on the phone again, you have several choices:
- Tell them that the FBI (or state attorney general's office if you know they are located in MT) told you you shouldn't talk with them any more, that you are supposed to wait until the investigation is complete.
- Tell them (as noted above) that no one authorized the billing, as proven by their lack of a signature.
- Say that the lawyers from your parent company (even if there isn't a parent company) in New York advised you to not discuss the issue until after the legal documents have been filed.
- Tell them about "Grandpa," and make a shotgun cocking sound in the background.

If they send you another "bill," you could either ignore it, or write a carefully worded letter that explains your position, threatens legal action, etc. Sometimes it's good to get some written documentation. I love writing those kinds of letters. Let me know if I can help. Oh, I would also recommend writing a "memo to file" describing what has transpired so you don't forget any of the details.

Finally, you could always send them a "Final Notice," billing them for the time you have had to spend sorting this out.

Under no circumstances should you pay anything to them!”

“as a rule of thumb, i write all notes on the inv. dates and any other info.
it does help when a month from now i need to refer back to the inv and i have all info in front of me.”

“go here, check out the company, file a complaint”

“OH MY GAWD! I just got off the phone w/ this woman. She says that her lady quoted me a price and an amount of time the ad would run for and everything. I said that I wanted to hear the tape of me authorizing all this. She said, they would review it, then I said that we at the co. would also be reviewing, then she tells me, "I just said that we, you and I, would review it together. You aren't listening dear!" She said that a woman called 2 days after the first woman and confirmed shipping w/ me. That is a complete lie. She then asked why I ignored it for so long if I felt that it was an error. I told her that I had felt that it was a scam and basically would go away when ignored. (I realize now in hindsight this may not have been the best course of action, but at I did what I thought was best at the time.) Anyway, she then proceed to tell me she thought I was a bit of "joke." She also told me that they asked me if I was an authorized purchaser and I said yes. The woman asked me if I was in charge of Accts. Payable and I said yes to that. I told her that I would be refering the matter to the owner and he would be taking it up w/ our lawyer.”