NEVER again

“everything was set, my hand had been dealt & it was a good one. rented a killer cabin near hasty on the biffalo, brother & girlfriend & my sisters family came down. we got to the cabin around dark & had a few ebers & crashed.

then came the wild card....my sister had called an old friend(we used to live nearby in Harrison) who decided that she would join us for out dayhike down indian creek, at kyles landing. well....i hadn't seen this girl in 5 years so i said it should't be a problem. when she showed up, i got worried. she was WAY outta shape! like 80 lbs overweight. i shoulda picked a different hike route right then(this is a very rugged bushwack hike), but i was determined to stick with plan A. which was hike from the top of the drainage all the way to kyles landing on the river. around 2 miles.

it was a dissaster! as soon as we hit the rough stuff she started whining, had to take breaks every 20 steps, she dint wear socks & got blisters, got dizzy, blacked out, cussed me, threw a big fit , completely paniced, setting of my sister to panic....on and on and on, it got worse and worse. we had to turn back cuz it was getting worse. so we had to deal with it all the way up too. omg, it was horrible.

finally we got back to the truck & went to bluehole, which is friggin awesome. went and looked at the opening of this HUGE cave(it's locked up for bats). you could fit 2 semis, side by side in the opening. FRIDGID water coming out of it, & the air was 25 degrees cooler than everywhere else.”

“Talk about a wet blanket!!!”

“first off im sorry you had to go through that kind of thing. I took a friend of my daughters with us for a nice 5 mile hike. should have only taken 3 to 4hours. but it took 6 hours. First off I learned to ask alot of questions when Im taking someone on a hike that ive never gone with. You should have done the same. Yes, if you saw she was out of shape you should have choosen another trail. I know it would have suck but it would have been better then what you went through.
Or your sister should have told her how hard this hike was and told her NO.
id be pissed at my sister more then anybody.
As soon as you knew she could not do the hike and was having trouble i would have truned right around and gone back.
it would have saved alot of bogus crap and you still could have saved the day.
botton line....
as a leader try to know what everyones hiking abilities(sp) are. thats the first golden rule of a leader.”

“darn whiners”

“Leave the driving to us. I'm not sure what that means, but it popped into my head and I had to write it down...interpret it anyway you want.

As trip leader, you made the mistake, but your sister should have used her noggin and spoke to you, but then again, its the fat chicks fault for getting fat. Sorry if that sounds cruel, but I never said I was a nice person...other people say it.”

“whiners suck”

“i agree with alla you, yer right sticky, she's jus plain lazy. i mean it was rediculous. and yes maple, i should have gone to plan B. i was thinking that the whole time. my sister probably didnt realize how difficult it was gonna be, so i'll taske the blame. i apologized to everybody. they were all as dissapointed as i was that we couldn't go down in there. it was just startin to get killer. i am so used to going with people who love it. she didnt even wanna be there.



on the bright side, she told me she never wanted to see me again. i'm good wit dat!”

“lol, I bet your heart just broke when she said that!”

“These sorts of incidents are unfortunate, but bound to happen.

What do you say when someone shows up for your hike and it's obvious that they won't be able to do it? Which is more courteous, saying nothing because you're afraid you'll offend, or warning them that they are unlikely to enjoy the hike because it's very strenuous and they're not ready for it?

Personally, I tend toward the latter if I really think the person shouldn't be on the hike. They can then make their own informed decision about what to do.

Of course, in the South, giving a warning like that is like waving a red flag in front of a bull. They'll go along then just to prove you wrong. lol.....”

“whats really abd is, she has lived 15 minuted from the some of the most awesome backcountry anywhere, all her life....and wasted it on her fat a$$ in front of the tv.”

“I told seven adult aunts and uncles "you can come along but it'll be hard and if you get tired you can either sit and wait or go back to the car. One came along. I was glad. Fair warning is the best bet IMO.”

“So I take it that your sister's friend was the one who said she never wanted to see you again, strat? At least you don't have to worry about a repeat performance!”

“agreed”

“My grandson Zach hit the panic button on a hike along Red Creek in the Sods last week. He was griping that nobody had a damn map and we didn't know where we were going. I ordered him to sit down in a military manner. Then I threw the map at him and said, "Here's the damn map, find out where we are and tell me where we're going!"

He took the map, unfolded it, and said he had no idea where we were. I called him over with the map, showed him where we were, and showed him the car was just a mile away. He calmed down and that was that. He hiked out as smartly as you please.

When panic sets it, you have to take charge immediately. Have them sit down and explain the situation to them when they calm down. Then take the shortest route out.”

“she was COMPLETELY irrational.”

“she was COMPLETELY irrational.”

“she was COMPLETELY irrational.”

“she was COMPLETELY irrational.”

“she was COMPLETELY irrational.”

“Hmmm, if you said it 5 times, she also must have been hard of hearing.”

“I'd get really sick of stratdewd talking to me like I was a baby

Again...

and again...

and again...

and again...

and again...

and again...”

“Perhaps a general "Trips Ruined" thread is in order?”

“The Horror...”

“I often do group trips with a guy who is extremely particular about the qualifications of people who go with him. Although this is a turn off for alot of people, it saves the quality of the backpacking experience for those who meet his standards.”

“Linkto story about one woman's revenge....”

“I think you have to be tactful in these situations.
"Now ____, it's not so much that you are a fat tub of goo, or even that your folds rival the Grand Canyon. No, it's just that it's been two years since you've been out of the recliner and this might be just a tiny bit more strenuous than clicking the remote control".
Hope this helps in the future.”

“lolol.......she was completely irrational.................lol”

“Bummer!

With people who don't seem like committed backpackers, I try to cultivate this image of going on irrational death marches. I let 'em think I get a little nuts and push everybody to do 20 mile days up and down multiple mountains and don't notice when people bleed, plead or collapse. That generally keeps the whiners away and people that come along are pretty relieved to see how reasonable I really am.

It just struck me as I finished this: Deathmarch99 is a brilliant choice for a screen name.”

“I think Deathmarch 98 might be available, Ped!”

“That really puts a damper on fun. Hope you chewed your sis out for that one.”

“Most first timers expect flat ground and wide even trails. When they do their two mile walk in the afternoons that is what they experience.

I have never been up Indian Creek. There was a trail intersection that headed in that direction last time I was on the BRT. I had heard that there was no trail and always assumed that it was a bushwack to get up to the falls. I doubt there was any water last weekend.

Where is blue hole?”

“Gewd idea Fly... but then I'd have to give up pretending to have original ideas.

Maybe I'll steal the name and start posting on the dark side...

pedthedeathmarcher”

“It sucks when someone is having such a bad time hiking they begin whining. (Thank GOD they were not backpacking)

I do not mind slower hikers at all. I usually take the sweep since speed ascents do not impress me too much. "Even though I have to stay ahead of Snow Nymph!" (just kidding) I would rather stop and smell the roses (so to speak).
I was taught we as a group were only as strong as the weakest hiker. If that meant not summiting, then so be it. If that meant taking someone back down and losing my bid on a summit, Then that is the way it is. (I once had to take a Navy fighter Pilot down off of San Gorgonio on a winter ascent, he became hypoxic and was irrational, he should have known better) If I ever fall into that situation I hope someone will have a little compassion and take me down as well.”

“there is a trail of sorts up there. it kindof eventuallyjust turns into the creekbed itself. it crisscrosses a time or 2 with the BRT & the horse trail, coming out of kyles, so you gotta take the right one. but once you get in there it starts getting really killer & the trail goes up over the creek on a bluff, then back down. there's one spot that alot of people use a rope to get up. its real stee[ & muddy. this is no mickkey mouse hike. awesome scenery though. we came in from the top side & saw a 50 foot waterfall. it was only trickeling. id love to go up in there after a 3 day rain!


blue hole is just downstream from hasty a mile or 2. i used to go there as a kid. can't really tell ya what the road is, it's kindof tricky to find.”

“why didn't you just roll her down to the water...then float her out?”

“I always tell the women that want to hike with me-If you want to whine,go ahead, I will ignore you. You'll have to cry to get me take you serious. That pretty much weeds out the divas.”