the ergonomics of hikng and camping

“Hi,
I am new to this website. I have been asked to speak at a conference on the ergonomics of hiking and camping. I have specialization in ergonomics, however my expertise is not in hiking and camping. I have the basics down about boots and packs, but some of the other essentials I am not sure of. I know once I have an expansive list of items and tips I will be able to link them to the science of ergonomics. What I am looking for is any information, links or tips you could provide me that help in reducing and/or eliminating fatigue and discomfort from hiking, backpacking, camping and even rock climbing. My audience at this engagement will be outdoor enthusiasts. Thanks so much for your help.
Andy”

“Checkout the 'Squatman' link on Phil's photo page. It deals with the most difficult ergonomic task.”

“Damn that was quick, bacpac. amrich, you're gonna have to get a little more specific- You said you had the basics of boots and packs down, but you're looking for tips regarding ergonomics? Have you put on a pack and some boots and done some walking? The only ergonomic tip I can give you is this- After getting the proper pack and boots, perhaps a pair of trekking poles, and then looking into all the lightweight hiking gear so you're not putting undue stress on your spinal column and/or knees, the most important thing I can tell you is DO NOT, under any circumstances, go to Hot Dog Johnny's. It's just not good ergonomics.”

“Call me cynical, but I ain't bitin'...”

“so when is your gig? hope it's not too soon, you gotta lot to absorb. you could always just read everything in the archives on this message board. ask violin bout his pack.


maybe one of them snooty hikin books ya'll are always talkin bout. ultimate hiker er sumpthin. i wouldnt know, i never read them.



seriously, that's like asking how to build the titanic and then explaining it to a bunch of shipbuilders. i think yer screwed.”

“LOL, strat. Yo' mama plays a draw knife!”

“Besides being somewhat in shape for the activities you are talking about, eating and drinking proper food and water should help prevent what you are looking to prevent.

and pain relievers, also.”

“Different gear fits different people differently. Wow, I said "different" three different times in that last sentence! Holy crap, I said it two more times!

But seriously, it all boils down to what feels right. If a pack fits properly, you'll be more comfortable and go farther. Trekking poles aid in balance and transfer some of the work to the upper body, allowing you to go farther. The list of examples could go on and on.”

“what is ergonomics?”

“A camp chair is ergonomically helpful whilst relaxing around the campfire...thermarest chair kit or crazy creek chair, etc. Rolling up one's polartech jacket and using it as a pillow at night is ergonomically delightful.”

“I appreciate everyone's quick response. Just so you know, I am planning on running this thing more as a group discussion and interjecting when I can, and really work more as a moderator. For those who asked, ergonomics in a nutshell, is basically working smarter not harder. By that I mean, building the equipment to meet the user's needs versus forcing yourself to fit into the equipment. For example, a simple ergonomic redesign would be to lower someone's computer monitor if it were too high. Most research and users say your eyelevel should be at your menu bar when you look straight at the monitor. Many people have the monitor too high and not only do they have neck discomfort but they look like computer vultures. Anyway, most outdoor gear I believe follow the basic guidelines of ergonomics. Its my hope that the group will be more of an information exchange and I will be there to explain why a pack is built a certain way as it relates to back pain and other musculo-skeletal problems, if you get my drift.”

“Just what an experienced group of outdoors people need; someone who doesn't know $hit from Shineola telling 'em how to do it, LOL. Violin, you're really outdoing yourself, pal.
You'll have to excuse me, I gotta go prep for the nuclear physics lecture I'm giving at Cal Tech tomorrow...”

“The hip belt is the most important part of the pack, IMHO. If it fits well, it takes all the weight off your shoulders and back and distributes it across the pelvic cavity where it's easier to manage and keep the load stable.

This is what biologically makes women's body types more suited to backpacking since we have larger pelvic areas (in general) than men and can spread the weight around. Course, mens' muscular strength in their shoulders far out paces us women, so they could prolly carry all that weight on their backs and shoulders and never miss a step.

Part of ergonomics is stretching, both before and after and proper hydration so help the muscles work more efficient and prevent cramping.

Ok, that's my 4 cents. Nite Y'all!

Tex”

“i have a breathing technique(really no help since i can't explain it) but it helps me out a lot. deep breath in through mouth and nostrils then 2 quick breaths out on uphills. keeps me from losing my wind, don't know why but it works.”

“Well, JOSH, if'n ya ever share a tent with Dodder, you'll have to learn ta hold yer breath!”

“If you want to know more about pack design check McHale packs website at www.mchalepacks.com His packs are custom made and have features you just won't find on any other line of packs. McHale holds the patent on the bypass harness and the bayonet frame system. His belts are unique too and everything about his packs ooze ergonomics and close fit. Check it out before you have any discussion about packs. You can tell Dan actually uses a pack and doesn't just build what will sell to retailers and the mass market.”

“Pelvic cavity?

Come on call it what it is. Don't be so ergonomically correct.”

“i know you didn't say that!


lol fatherGEE, yer momma plays a uranium trombone...”

“Got a link, rich?”

“Make sure the wheel chair is designed to fit the rider's body and has 4 wheel drive.”

“LOL, no fair, strat. It has to be an actual instrument(implement)!”

“my mom made me a hunting vest one time when i was 7. all the hunters at the deer shack said my plad vest was the nicest one there. it had a pocket on the breast for keeping my johnny quest compass in. and extra padding in the shoulder so i wouldn't cry again when my dad mede me shoot his 30-06.”

“You guys are all very funny, and you have convinced me to bring another person in to co-lead this discussion. I will bring in someone with who does not consider Motel-6 roughing it. Maybe that guy with the bear problem. Honestly, I appreciate your help and the opportunity to be the subject of ridicule. I will let you know how it goes, if there is interest. Any I will let you go back to the lampooning”

“i think that's an excellent idea. sorry we're playing around. we can't help it. we're addicted to this infernal site and have nothing better to do. please let us know how it goes.”

“Hey no problem. I can laugh at myself. I am actually going to print these replies out and share them at the event.”

“Hey Vio...I mean amrich5, where's this 'event' taking place? Maybe we'd all like to show up and heckle...”

“amrich -

1. Trekking poles are probably the most recent major ergonomic improvement to backpacking because they take so much stress of off the knees.

2. Light and Ultralight backpacking is another major improvement in the human factors area. Lighter backpacks put less stress on the back, legs, knees AND FEET. It allows you to buy lighter boots as well because you have less force if twist your ankle. Lighter loads allow you to hike much farther in a day. (For a working definition [my own] define ultralight = under 20 pounds.
Light = under 30 pounds.)

3. I also should mention some of the newer lightweight LED headlamps that put out diffused light and really make it easier to function at night.

4. Internal frame vs. external frame backpack is an ergonomic issue. Internals are better for off-trail work because of a better center of gravity, but externals can carry larger weights.

5. Hike management is also a major human factors area. People can get altitude sickness, heat exhaustion, hypothermia, and lots of other dangerous ailments if they do not watch out. Drinking lots of water is very important.

By the way, several years ago I created a website to explain ergonomics. Enjoy!”

“Phil, you're a real hoot!”

“Yall forgot to mention different sleep positions.hammock vs tent ect.

did anyone mention the difficulties of dancing naked with a Ti ax or the subtil differences in bear attack positions?”

“OK, I'll try a link to McHale packs. click here”

“It didn't work and I don't know why, sorry.”

“Don't forget sleeping pads in the discussion.”

“All right, I'll try it one more time. click here”

“Hey it worked. First time it ever worked for me. Big thanks to LyndyS for giving me directions.”

“Thanks, richb. Those look like real nice packs. A bit pricey, though. Maybe when I wear out my Osprey Aether 60 I'll think about getting one.”

“yer slayin me here!”

“Nothing about the difficulty of removing newbies' kidneys in the backcountry? It's the hardest thing there is in backpacking!”

“lest you think we're Normal, LOL!

my pack has this cool thing where you can adjust the length of it, so that it fits a wide range of torso lengths. i thought that was pretty cool!”

“what about hydration packs (platy's and such). and all those pockets in yer pants to hold stuff nearby.”

“Pockets are good, but I've determined that "hydration system v. Nalgene" is a religious issue. I've never had any trouble with my Platypuses, but plenty of others have, and therefore they'll only carry Nalgenes.”

“Hydration is a great ergonomics example...sorry I missed it.

Sleeping pads have come a long way also. I love my Thermarest LE.”

“Egonomically backpacking can be a nightmare. When walking on flat, even ground the body mechanics are not stressed too bad. Uneven trails, rocks, roots, slick leaves, and additional weight strain muscles and tendons that don't get used much.

Ankle injuries are reduced with good footware, but muscle soreness and fatigue are noticible. Knees also take a pounding. I have to use weight training to keep mine from failing me.

I had Guillian-Barre' in 1989, but made a full recovery with the only noticible exception in my hands and knees. My grip is not as strong as it used to be and stepping down is difficult. I use a hiking stick or trekking poles to compensate.”

“Ergonomically speaking, doggie-style does not generally work well in 2-man tent. However, woman on top does.”

“That's the only downside to McHales packs is that they're more expensive than an off the shelf pack. Some of the ultralight models aren't too high, but on the plus side I think they're worth if you hike a lot.”

“You could also mention the increased risk of slips and falls from heavy packs that increase fatigue and unbalence you.

On the other hand there is a "sweet spot" I hear just to the side of the spine. YUMMY? :}”

“only if the tent is tall enough rosey”

“amrich5, take a look at the Hennessy Hammock discussions here on TT, on Sgt. Rock's site, and at the HH website -- the innovative design of this hammock should be good for discussing the ergonomics of sleeping in the backcountry.”

“"Ergonomically speaking, doggie-style does not generally work well in 2-man tent. However, woman on top does."
roseymonster



i'm not THAT kinda hiker......2 PERSON tent maybe, i'm not down wit da 2-man action, lol!”

“Strat plays the skin flute, the pink piccolo...?????
Nawwwwww...”

“fatherG, please keep your lil fanticies to yourself, TYVM”