PatBuchanan on Bush's War Party

“Hey, SH, weren't you on David Duke's Campaign advisory board?

Buchanan is a poser who will never amount to a political hill of beans.

Pfft.”

“I imagine that that particular sound effect is a sign that Phaedrus doesn't find Buchanon hard to swallow, just hard to digest!”

“personally, i think sadam did this in an attempt to get the UN to tell bush to back off. it doesn't mean anything in the overall of whether we will go into iraq or not. we will go in with proof they support terrorists. they are giving more than one issue for bush's push on iraq.”

“i know funny.......and THAT'S funny!”

“(nah WW, the odd new little troll, was funnier!)

Actually, I found Buchanon's speculations interesting. He offers no evidence, and is not really making an argument, but his speculations are interesting.”

“Buchanan is just another draft-dodgin' chicken hawk like our fearless leader Georgie Butch.


This "Iraqi Thing" is just another Wag The Dog timed to help throw the election to the Repugs.

They'll bring it back to life in time for the elections of '04.”

“Ain't fair to call him a chicken hawk...he is talking against the war.”

“

”

“<GUFFAW>”

“Have you even got a clue?”

“As far as my Israel is not a good ally to the United States statement, I fully plan to document my claims. We'll do that under another thread and in the near future.

Still waiting. Hurry up.”

“Solitary Hiker: If you're interested, the following is an article that refutes the necessity of a huge ground force:

From the http://www.accessatlanta.com/ajc/news/0902/19iraqstart.html

Analysts expect quick start, short war in Iraq
It could be over by Christmas, says ex-general

By RON MARTZ
Atlanta Journal-Constitution Staff Writer

A military strike against Iraq could be launched within 30 days of commanders getting the go-ahead from President Bush, military analysts say. And it probably would be over in just a few weeks.

Combat equipment already is positioned in the Persian Gulf region. Larger and faster transport ships have been leased to move tanks and other armored vehicles from the United States. And the number of troops in the Middle East has increased steadily over the past year.

As a result, a second war against Iraq would be much easier to get off the ground than the Gulf War of 1991, which took six months of preparations.

"This would be the quickest and most efficient mobilization in military history," retired Navy Rear Adm. Stephen Baker said Wednesday.

Baker, a senior fellow with the Washington-based Center for Defense Information, also said he does not expect a large-scale attack against Saddam Hussein's forces before November or December.

'They are sitting ducks'

Retired Marine Lt. Gen. Bernard Trainor said he does not think anything will happen until after the Nov. 5 elections in the United States and the Islamic holy month of Ramadan, which begins in early November and ends in early December.

"They could move by the end of Ramadan and have it over by Christmas," said Trainor, a national security analyst with the Council on Foreign Relations.

It will be over quickly because the Iraqi military capability "is significantly less than it was in 1990," Trainor said. "They are sitting ducks."

The morale of the Iraqi military "is nonexistent," Baker said. "It goes all the way up through the Special Republican Guard. I don't think anybody knows, even Saddam, if they will fight to the death."

Baker said he believes ground action will be limited to scattered special operations missions until the end of "a massive air campaign that is totally focused on making this over as quickly as possible with a minimum of casualties."

"I don't see us storming out of Kuwait and heading for Baghdad until that has done its job," Baker said.

Much of the air campaign is expected to involve precision-guided munitions against specific targets. Some analysts say precision weapons could account for 90 percent of the bombs dropped on Iraq. During Desert Storm, only 3 percent were precision weapons. In Afghanistan, the figure rose to 60 percent.

"Precision-guided weapons are not going to find weapons of mass destruction," Baker said. "It's going to be boots on the ground," meaning foot soldiers.

Supplies already in place

In a sense, the air campaign already has started, Trainor said. Pilots patrolling the "no-fly zones" in northern and southern Iraq have been given permission to go after communications sites and command and control facilities as well as anti-aircraft weapons. This paves the way for a larger air campaign, he said.

Kuwait is expected to be the main staging area for ground troops in the attack. After the Gulf War, the Pentagon decided to keep enough equipment, ammunition and supplies in Kuwait for a brigade -- anywhere from 3,000 to 5,000 soldiers -- of mechanized infantry or armored troops. Those stocks have been increased recently to support two full brigades.

There is also enough equipment for two additional Army brigades on ships near the island of Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean.

About 4,000 troops from the 3rd Infantry Division (Mechanized) have been in Kuwait since March. They are expected to be relieved by another brigade from the Fort Stewart-based division in October, but there is the possibility both could stay there.

An estimated 40,000 American personnel are in the region. They would be augmented by combat units, possibly from the 1st Cavalry Division and 4th Infantry Division, both based at Fort Hood, Texas; the 82nd Airborne Division from Fort Bragg, N.C.; and the 101st Airborne Division from Fort Campbell, Ky.

Baker said scenarios calling for as many as 250,000 troops are probably unrealistic and that the attack could be done successfully with anywhere from 70,000 to 90,000 ground troops. That figure would include British forces.

A portion of the 3rd Army headquarters, usually based at Fort McPherson, moved to Kuwait in December to support the war in Afghanistan. It would oversee any ground operations in Iraq.

And U.S. Central Command is moving about 600 of its staff and a mobile headquarters facility from Tampa to a new $1.7 billion air base in Qatar for a November exercise.

Late last week, Pentagon officials acknowledged that the move could be permanent. Gen. Tommy Franks, the Central Command boss who would be in charge of the war effort, would use it as his command post.

Baker said six aircraft carrier battle groups would be needed for the air campaign. Two are in the region, two more could be moved there quickly, and two others are scheduled to go there in December, he said.

When those battle groups, which include Marine amphibious units, get their orders to move out, or F-117 Nighthawk stealth fighters from Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico are deployed overseas, an invasion is just a few weeks away, he said.

Two other considerations for waiting until December or January are the weather and reduced daylight. Colder weather makes it easier for U.S. forces to operate in bulky heat-trapping chemical protection suits.

And U.S. forces have a distinct advantage over the Iraqis with their night vision devices, the analysts said. Baker said: "The night is a fairly significant sanctuary we have that doesn't slow us down at all."”

“As far as the "Israel is not a good ally" thread, be patient. Good things come to those who wait. Besides I want to be able to site my sources and I need one more book that I ordered to arrive. I'll have numerous incidents to talk about.

The war could long or short. I never mentioned anything about a long war. The point is that after the war is over someone has to occupy the space to keep the locals under control. Someone will have to restructure the society into a "democracy" of our liking. Someone will have to organize and rebuild the infastructure. And even though Iraq will wind up paying for its own rebuilding someone (the US taxpayer) will have to make the intial outlays.

And after we start our occupation of Iraq, what next? Maybe Iran? Pakistan? Or how about North Korea? Now there is a good candidate. They have a dangerous dictator running the country. They have serious quanities of weapons of mass distruction, both biological and chemical. They are working on nuclear weapons. And to top it off they have effective long and short range missles that can deliver the goods!

Don't worry, we wouldn't be that foolish. The average North Korean may be starving but the NK Army is well fed and dedicated. We might win but it would be a bloodbath. And besides the North Koreans don't threaten Israel and the Israelis don't want us wasting good American lives on a country that can't harm them.”

“I didn't notice the word "civilian" mentioned in that entire article. I think I'll read it again...”

“Yup. the closest it came was "a massive air campaign that is totally focused on making this over as quickly as possible with a minimum of casualties."

I guess "kill 'em all" is the mantra.”