Your thoughts, please.

“None of us will forget where we were on September 11 2001.

I was in a hut in the Shropshire forest, without running water or electricity, cooking and keeping warm by a wood-burning stove. Only when I switched the car radio on to come home, did I hear what had happened.

My agent is in New York, and I have a special affection for that city. Its energy, its verve, its rudeness, its hospitality, are in a blend unique to itself. There is only one New York.

I missed my trip there last autumn, and as I prepare to go this year, at the end of the month, I am thinking about America, about the terrible events of last year, and how much the situation has worsened in world politics.

I am not a fan of George Bush. His rhetoric and his stupidity are frightening. He has no idea about the rest of the world, dividing it simply into allies and enemies. He is uninterested in the cultural life of other nations. He would rather fight than negotiate. He is the most powerful man in the world.

Much as I admire America, the unwillingness of the USA to engage imaginatively with other nations is dispiriting and probably disastrous. I'm not just talking about the Middle East - Europe is of no interest to America except as a trading bloc. The so-called special relationship with Britain only disguises how radically different is Europe to America. Britain would rather be American than European. At present it is France who is fighting hardest to keep out the all-pervasive American way of life. And it must be kept out, if only because the world thrives on difference not sameness. We cannot all be a giant franchise of Hollywood and Macdonalds.

Bush has made his views clear - he doesn't care about the Earth Summit, because he will do nothing 'to hinder the way of life of the American people'. This sounds as though the American people live on a different planet to the rest of the world, and while the rest of the world must juggle and compromise and negotiate, America will live as it likes and hang the expense.

If it is really true that 95% of Americans do not have passports and have never travelled outside of America, then we are all in trouble. How can we expect any feeling for a complex world order when it is only ever viewed from the home state?
True, travel is a modern phenomenon, but so is globalisation. If we live in a global village, we had better visit it.

Europe and the world will grieve for America on September 11th. But I hope it will be a day of remembrance and reflection, and not an opportunity for revenge. Toppling Saddam Hussein and wiping out the Taliban will not make either the USA or the world a safer place - while there is misery and oppression there will be terrorism and despots. If we don't get closer to the causes of terrorism, there is little purpose in wiping away the symptoms. They'll be back - bigger, better, stronger.

There are plenty of people who want a war. War is in the air. War is being set up as the only practical solution - the only sane solution to world problems. War has never solved a problem - war is a violent temporary solution. War wastes the earth, animals, nature, people, resources, time. War mortgages the future. War ruins lives. In Britain and America, more and more people want war because they think it will be fought somewhere else. Someone else will get the bombs and the bullets, the starvation and the contaminated water. Someone else will have their limbs blown off and lose their loved ones. It doesn't matter because that someone else will be the enemy.

I have been reading a book by the ex Bishop of Edinburgh, Richard Holloway, called On Forgiveness. It's a short book and well worth reading, because it talks about forgiveness as the only means of unlocking the future. Without forgiveness, we never move past the crime. Without forgiveness, there is only hatred and revenge. He says, rightly, that while we cannot forgive the crime or the harm, we can forgive the person who has done the crime and the harm.

It is a controversial book, but it is a Christian book in the true sense - that is, a book about values and humanity and what things matter. Those Bible-belt Christians who want to nuke the world had better go back and read their primary text. Great evil has been done in the name of religion, but that evil is a distortion of what religion is - not fanaticism and killing, but openness and forgiveness,
It is not necessary to believe in God to believe in higher values. If human beings invented religion, we did so partly because we were looking for a moral code and a conscience, and for strange values unknown to the animal kingdom, like mercy and tolerance.

In your own moment of silence on September 11th, forgive someone who has hurt you. Forgive yourself for something you did to another, and ask their forgiveness in return. If we could fill the day with forgiveness, it might make a difference.
It's worth a try.”

“What do I think..Let's see..Well, that if you really wanted to sway someones opinion you should use less of the rhetoric and bent opinion that you claim to despise...I think you should try and see the difference between atrocity and self defense...I think you managed to use religion, economics, culture, and politics within the framework of your arguement, but incorperated no facts to support their use...:)”

“your model for a perfect nation is france? they have always hated us. even after we saved them in WWII from a really bad person(i'm assuming a rabbi would remember the holocaust). was hitler appeasable? forgivable? able to be negotiated with?


sorry rabbi, ,i hate death and destruction and misery & i really do wish everybody would just play nicee and there was no need for national defence. it is bush's main job to protect the nation from terror. they have no concience and therefore will never be able to be reasoned with.


good luck on your trip.”

“Liked the first 4 paragraghs...after that it started going downhill.

There will always be people going after #1...whether it's a country, a sports record or highest class marks etc. It's a fact of life.”

“You frenchy jerry lewis lovin bastards. If you like france so damned much, why don't you go and stay in a hut with no electricity or running water over there, oh, that's right, that's all the homes in france because they can't do a g-damned thing for themselves.

France doesn't want a confliuct with Iraq because they know they couldn't win in a battle with them. They can't win wars, it's a genetic thing with them. I guess we should just wait like the french did in WWII, and let Saddam deliver a nuclear warhead right in your back pocket, and then the USA will come and bail you out again.

Screw that, I'll fight for anything for this country, except to again liberate you cowardly, yellow-bellied, loud-mouth, rude, ungrateful, whiney french bastards.

France sucks, you suck, and please, warn us when your posts are modeled on french principles, so i can skip them and not get all pissed off on a Sunday morning.”

“BTW - You can take your damned statue back too.”

“france ane russia are the main buyers of iraqi oil. look it up, that's why they are opposed to all this....”

“But how do you really feel, Buddha?”

“Real quick:
-America is the greatest nation on earth.
-"Toppling Saddam Hussein and wiping out the Taliban", will make the world a safer place.
-Forgiveness is a good idea, and so is justice. One can forgive and still enact justice. Ask any loving parent.
-I'd rather keep "that damn statue"”

“Wow, we've heard from the Ugly Americans!

Just three little sentences about France's desire to keep American "culture" from overwhelming their own and its all about France, huh?

What are you guys going to fight for.....U.S. hegemony?

I expect we won't be hearing from
all of you cowboys since you tough ba$tards will be joining
the U.S. Army Rangers......Rangers Lead The Way!
Hoo Ah!!!

Oh, by the way, I'll be running a shuttle service to Canada for any of you or your teenage sons who want to dodge the coming draft.

Big Smile, Big Smile!!!”

“who you callin ugly? sunshine says i'm cute, SO THERE! and WTF is hegemony? go hug a taliban ya linguini-spined, appeasing peacenik!


speakin of france.....ask chaimberlain what appeasement will getcha....”

“!!!”

“Hegemony; donination of others, supremacy....
Gee, wasn't the U.S. founded on the desire to be free of foreign domination?

Linguini my a$$, I prefer capellini(angel hair)!
And my tomato sauce is tres extraordinaire!

Hitler and Sodomy Insane are like apples and oranges.
Is that the best you war mongers can some up with?

Ugly?
Well, that is some rather ugly talk.
Brute force doesn't always work.
Stay tuned and we might just see that it makes matters worse.
But it certainly makes money for the military contractors.
And after all, isn't making money what its all about for the Bush Crime Family?

What the Rabbi said was thoughtful and you guys had to trash him.

I'm gonna invite him over for dinner.”

“Do rabbis go good with cappelini?”

“Hmmmmmm....?

I don't know about rabbis, but there is a Polish sausage maker in Baltimore who makes the best Italian sausage and THAT is excellent with cappelini.

Their Polish sausage is very good too!

That brings us back to the rabbi......I doubt if the sausage in question is kosher.”

“france what a joke. hahahaha!!!!!”

“I always suspected Tom was French.”

“oui”

“I say wipe out all of the people that think that they can just kill who ever they want!

They have no right!

8|”

“Trollin', trollin', trollin',
keep them rabbis trollin',
foolish thoughts are rollin',
TROLLHIDE!”

“FATHERGEE! WTF you been dood? wb!”

“Hey, strat. I've been out of town for a few days for a cram couse in real estate before the exam I took Saturday. Then Mother Goose and I stayed with friends at Lake Guntersville to unwind this weekend. Now I'm just trying to recover from all the danged rum I drank last night (hic!).”

“well, how'd the test go?”

“That was the most difficult test I've ever taken. 60 classroom hours plus 16 cram hours, months of study and I can't tell ya whether I passed or failed. I feel like I did well but I may have blown my @ss outta the water. I guess I'll find out at the end of the month.”

“Ha!”

“Huh?”

“i guess you could say that france is americophobic then?”

“Nah, strat. That wouldn't be politcally correct.”

“good point...”

“FG, if my mom can pass the realtor's exam, anybody can. Or at least 25 years ago, anyway. I remember her studying for it and getting all worked up, but she did pass it.”

“bacpac-
You wanna French what?

Hey, knock off this real estate crap and get back to givin' it to the French!

Sorry boys no French in me.

But ya gotta admit, they do know how to live.”

“those freekin french couldn't pass a real estate test if their lives depended on it! !



how's that tom?”

“LOL, strat. Maybe not, but them thar Froggies sure know how to cook!”

“Real cool!

Maybe you should bone up on your French.

Ya know those winos will take over the world.

Ah, Global France!

Yeah, like the British "Empire".....ha, ha!”

“i love french toast though....”

“There's a lot to like about the French.

Their music sucks though, like Latino music.
Eh, guitarboy?

The food, on the other hand, from both cultures is gooooood!

And don't forget that the French saved America in the revolution.
Hmmmmmmmmm?”

“Don't forget the art!”

“I like Latino music...”

“What is the diametric opposite of Political Correctness?

Think, now... what do you call loathing, hatred, dislike for an entire class of people based on race, religion or national origin, hmmmmm?

You know.”

“Ok, sorry about the music.

I beleive it was Duke Ellington who said, "If it sounds good, it is good."

"If its not Scottish, its crap"!”

“I think that Other Word that Some People have trouble wrapping their minds around is CULTURE.

If your exposure is limited to French Toast this is understandable.”

“The Rabbi is Jeanette Winterson?!

What's the matter, too embarrassed to post something 'peacey' under your usual handle?”

“I would strongly suggest to all of you Franco-phobes visit France sometime. Don't spend all of your time in Paris, but go to where the real folks are. You will find some great people much like you find in the USA.
Also, don't miss the burial site on the Normandy coast that was given to the US after WW2. There are many people over there who have not forgotten their history, unlike some of those on this thread.”

“By the way, Paris rocks!”

“now you sound like my wife...she's always wantin me to go....like we could afford it....and like i'm gonna get on a plane, lol. besides, like i always tell her.....there's too many killer places here to see in a lifetime.”

“Well, putting down another country that you haven't visited is kinda like being a conservative because you like Rush Limbaugh.”

“"Maybe you should bone up on your French. "
Tom Terrific
09:59:04 AM
09/23/02

During WWII my grandpa "boned up" on enough french chicks to meet our family quota for 100 years. It's really all they are good for.”

“yeah, what Dunadan said! :-) he's so smart...”

“BTW - German toast is much better than french toast. It's bigger, tastes better, and doesn't look so defeated.”

“well, mr dumdan...i was talking about the current political climate. specifically; their prime minister tellins us how to handle our national security. they don't want us to get saddam cuz they are the primary purchasers of iraqi oil. DUH~


as far as limbaugh goes, if you think i'm that shallow, yer simply nieve.....or just plain stupid”