The Cost of Bush's Folly

“You must've said 'librarian,' LOL

Noooo, I can't go the whole Libertarian Route. I don't think deadly force should be sold in bubblegum machines.


Back to brass tacks, here... What's up with all these knuckleheads using The War On Terror to milk their donors for more cash?”

“I keep reading referrences to the resurrection of the so-called "Hashemite Plan" to combine Jordan and Iraq after the war. It's supposedly being supported by the Bush Hawks, and I know it's being discussed in the Arab media, but I can't seem to find any analysis in English. Has anybody read anything about this?”

“"Hashemite Plan"

on Alta Vista

on Ixquick

on Vivisimo”

“Thanks Tilt. I've gotten into a bad habit of relying almost soley on Google for my searches. 'preciate it.”

“Nothing to it... I think I heard about those last two watching Computer Chronicles.”

“and have just a couple of questions about what happens next.....

Assuming we go in (hard to imagine not, unfortunately):

1) Do we encourage a democratic government? Even if the majority of the Iraqi population is Shiite, with close ties to Iran (remember those other axis of evil folks)?
If not, do we just install another puppet government (remember how effective the Shah was in our long-term security)?

2) We're helping to protect the Kurds, who've been gassed using weapons of mass destruction. Right? Are we gonna support their desire for autonomy? If so, how do we reconcile this with our willingness to stand by and let the Turks go after "their" Kurdish population? Or do we help the Turks, and continue to suppress the Kurds, as the present Iraqi regieme has?

3) Uh, not to belabor the obvious, but where is the money for all this gonna come from? Education funding? Transportation funding?
Medicare? Housing? Research into other energy sources? (no, cancel that one- we'll be sitting on the world's #2 oil reserve- won't need to worry about that one)

4) If this somehow manages to enrage most of the Arab population out there (wonder why), and this results in more terrorism, which of our civil rights is gonna get yanked first?

just wondering.....”

“Stepford Citizen Syndrome: Top 10 Signs Your Neighbor is Brainwashed
by Maureen Farrell

Though much of the world is convinced the 2000 election was a coup d'etat, and many believe we're being lied to regarding 9/11, we Americans are unaware of how numb we seem. Not only are we being coerced into World War III, but at this very moment, unnamed souls are secretly locked away, the Army's drafted plans for civilian detention camps and there's a shadow government buzzing beneath our streets. And yet, we continue to ignore the oily elephant in the living room.

The administration's Iraq war dance is likewise baffling, particularly when Dick Cheney says Saddam can't be trusted --even though, not too long ago, he was trusted to the tune of $73 million during Halliburton/Iraq transactions. Moreover, newly discovered memos reveal that Cheney was also involved in a 1975 cover-up involving the CIA's mind-control experiment, MK-ULTRA. Back then, the government paid $750,000 restitution to Army biochemist Dr. Frank Olson's family, after admitting the CIA slipped Dr. Olson LSD days before his 1953 fall from a New York City building. When the Ford administration finally came clean, they promised they'd revealed everything. Yet according to an article in the "Mercury News," (Scientist's death haunts family, August 8, 2002) key officials, including White House aides Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld pushed to continue to conceal information.

But not only has the government tried to control people's minds, they've copped to controlling the media, too. Operation Mockingbird, the CIA's plan to infiltrate America's newsrooms, was such a success that former CIA director William Colby boasted, "the Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any major significance in the major media." Carl Bernstein substantiated this, revealing that hundreds of journalists and news organizations were involved in this subversion. And though officials have admitted to planting fabrications in the past, it seems they're still at it. Remember the story about the terrorist's passport surviving the fiery crash into the World Trade Center? What could that be but government-issued pabulum? And what else but full-scale public brainwashing accounts for the rash of Stepford Citizen Syndrome spreading throughout the country?

Which brings us to the case in point. Researchers have identified the following symptoms. If you overhear anyone making the following statements, assume they've been brainwashed and intervene immediately:

1) "George Bush is a decent man."

Abraham Lincoln once said, "f you want to test a man's character, give him power." If he steals power, however, the nature of his character is no longer in question. This week's out of court settlement with the NAACP over Florida's foray into election fraud confirms BBC's Greg Palast's report that the election was rigged. Yet pundits ignore this travesty, while referring to Dubya's decency in much the same way our ancestors spoke of Earth's flatness. Overlooking our thrice-arrested president's blatant disregard for civil rights, human rights and the environment, they continue to downplay scandals and downgrade their role as protectors of the public trust. But with oft-repeated quips like, "lucky me, I hit the trifecta" and "if this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck of a lot easier," G.W. offers a glimpse at his indecent inner frat boy. Especially revealing was a Talk Magazine interview, in which he mimicked death row inmate Karla Faye Tucker. "Please," Bush whimpered, mocking Tucker's plea for clemency, "don't kill me." Gallows humor is only funny when those telling jokes don't have the power to save people from the gallows.

2) "I have faith in our system of checks and balances."

Certainly, the uproar over Operation TIPs and recent court decisions on FBI abuses and secret deportation hearings are healthy signs. Except, of course, that controversial findings against Ashcroft's Justice Department will most likely be appealed before the same felonious five who handed down the 2000 selection. Chief Justice Rehnquist has already warned that, "in times of war, the laws are silent." Then, too, though the Constitution grants Congress the sole right to declare war, since 1948, America has been involved in approximately 250 military incursions without one single declaration of war. The Bush regime has already said they don't need Congress' approval on Iraq. So much for checks and balances.

3) "We have to defend ourselves, and the war on terrorism is the only way to do that."

Anyone who believes this war is simply a drive to eradicate terrorism must be brainwashed. The U.S. has been building military bases along proposed oil pipeline routes, and has its eye on the oil and gas reserves in the Caspian Sea region. All anyone need do is read Zbigniew Brzezinski's "The Grand Chessboard" or brush up on the Wolfowitz Doctrine to understand the not-so-hidden agenda behind U.S foreign policy. In recent appearance on Crossfire, Insight Magazine's Jamie Dettmer deftly addressed America's aim to control the oil fields in Iraq. "Nobody has suggested the United States is going into Iraq to control the oil," Tucker Carlson asserted, leaving some to wonder if Tucker's bow tie isn't too tight. "Let's not be unsophisticated about this," Dettmer replied, warning that, "in the end, if America doesn't restrain itself, going to provoke groupings of countries which will restrain America instead."

4) "Since September 11, George Bush has shown strong leaderships skills."

Since September 11, George Bush has led us away from progressive policies and alienated us from the rest of the world. British papers describe the biggest rift between Europe and the U.S. in more than 50 years, 85 percent of Germans no longer trust America, and veteran reporter Helen Thomas bemoans how, "friends and allies wonder what's happened to the United States." Our $7 trillion surplus has followed the president's example and gone AWOL, while unemployment, crime and intellectual numbness are on the rise. Under Bush's "leadership," the U.S. has become the kid who picks his nose in class. Those of us who love America are embarrassed; others are repulsed.

5) "Europeans don't agree with us because they're effete appeasers."

Europeans don't agree with us because we're wrong. They understand the geopolitical motivations behind this war, as their press isn't as censored. In America, however, stories about Enron's involvement in the proposed oil and gas pipeline though Afghanistan were squashed, and if you wanted to know about the Taliban's trip to Texas, you had to learn about it in the National Enquirer rather than on Meet the Press.

6) "George Bush's administration is filled with solid, foreign policy pros."

Aside from Colin Powell, George Bush's cabinet is swarming with neo-conservative ideologues who'd be clamoring for an attack on Iraq even if the atrocities of 9/11 hadn't occurred. Despite the chorus of countries opposed, Dick Cheney unilaterally forges ahead, while Donald Rumsfeld says he's certain America will receive backing from the international community. Meanwhile, the international community scratches its head and wonders what's become of our once great nation.

7) "George Bush is doing an excellent job in the war on terror."

Given limited media coverage, how would anyone know? Unless one digs through foreign press and alternative media reports, there's little to go by. When one reads reports from journalists like Seymour Hersh, however, a different picture emerges. Stability in Afghanistan is but a myth, warlords carry out atrocities without intervention, and the State Department is forced to guard President Karzai. Meanwhile, many warn that Bush's plans for Iraq could lead to Armageddon. Yet "Bush is doing an excellent job in the war on terror?" How?

8) "People who say the Bush administration 'let 9/11 happen' are conspiracy nuts."

Forget the president's odd behavior on September 11. Ignore that jets weren't scrambled from Andrews Airforce base, or that the FBI reportedly thwarted investigations. Pretend there are no connections between the Bushes, bin Ladens and the Saudis or that Bush #41 doesn't profit from this war through his connections with the Carlyle Group. Imagine, for a moment, it doesn't matter that those heading the closed-door investigation into 9/11 met twice with the former Pakistan intelligence chief, who reportedly helped finance Mohammed Atta. And never mind that, despite warnings, only 14 planes were defending our mainland on September 11. These oddities could be explained through coincidence and incompetence rather than complicity.

That said, remember this: After World War II, the CIA recruited Nazi scientists to share information later used in the aforementioned MK-Ultra program. In the '60s, the Pentagon drafted plans to kill American citizens and blame it on Castro as a pretext for war with Cuba. And Army-based concentration camps aren't merely a gleam in Ashcroft's eye. The brainwashed are conditioned to hear "conspiracy" and shut down, however, immediately deducing information isn't true and the messenger is daft. But even Bill Clinton reportedly asked Webster Hubbell to find answers to two questions: "One, who killed JFK? And, two, are there UFOs? " He never found out. And odds are we won't either. Even so, it's not crazy to demand an independent investigation into 9/11. Nor is it nuts to wonder why the administration is doing everything in its power to make certain we never uncover what went wrong.

9) "The media is liberal."

Ann Coulter complains about the liberal media through the "liberal media," where she's regularly given a forum, yet Michael Moore has appeared on less than a handful of shows, though his book's been a bestseller for six months. During the election, the corporately-controlled media portrayed Al Gore in a negative light, while touting Bush's phony ranch-hand charm, and according to a report in F.A.I.R (Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting), 75 % of the dominant sources of opinion on all three major networks are Republican. Yet the brainwashed continue to believe the media has a liberal bias. Go figure.

10) "Saddam has weapons of mass destruction!"

This phrase has replaced, "Saddam gassed his own people!" as the #1 mantra of war-mongering dittoheads. But despite former weapons' inspector Scott Ritter's assertion that there's no proof Hussein has amassed weapons of mass destruction, Dick Cheney says there's "no doubt" he's got them and plans to use them. During the Cuban missile crisis, John F. Kennedy relayed photographic evidence proving the Soviet Union was up to no good. Where's the proof now? Why hasn't the administration won over our allies? Why do so many doubt there is "no doubt?"

Latest polls indicate that nearly half of all Americans believe the First Amendment "goes too far," proving that Stepford Citizen Syndrome is now a national crisis. We have an obligation to rouse our loved ones out of their stupor. If we don't, the thugs who've stolen America will steam-roll right over us. And if you can't see that, chances are, you're brainwashed.”

“Why is Bush such a bad guy when Clinton tried to do the same thing in 1998? None of you liberal bleeding heart whiners cared then, or was it justified then?”

“Without using derogatory titles could you describe how striking at military targets that allowed Saddam to produce, store and deliver weapons of mass destruction compares to a full scale invasion aimed at disarmament and regime change?”

“Without using derogatory titles could you describe why it was okay to bomb the heck out of Serbia, destroy civilian targets and instigate a regime change, but taking this same action against Iraq is bad?

Regarding the article posted by Rosey, was there really a $7 Trillion surplus? or was it the creation of funny math?”

“We don't know what targets to hit, so how can we do this? He doesn't let us in...and him letting us in know will go just how they did in the past, people running out the doors as inspecters enter the building.

DO YOU GET IT????

Assuming he's not doing anything has got to be one of the most naive mind sets I could fathom...”

“What I really don't get is why so many people take the view of the UN? The UN is as f'd up as FDR was for starting it...

Iraq is the country who doesn't follow the rules, correct?”

“A lot of people take the side of the UN because if it were to leave New York, all the prostitutes would become unemployed.”

“LOL....”

“"You liberal bleeding heart whiners!" <SKIP>
"You liberal bleeding heart whiners!" <SKIP>
"You liberal bleeding heart whiners!" <SKIP>
"You liberal bleeding heart whiners!" <SKIP>
"You liberal bleeding heart whiners!" <SKIP>
"You liberal bleeding heart whiners!" <SKIP>
"You liberal bleeding heart whiners!" <SKIP>
"You liberal bleeding heart whiners!" <SKIP>
"You liberal bleeding heart whiners!" <SKIP>
"You liberal bleeding heart whiners!" <SKIP>
"Where can I get a good deal on a Range Rover?"

-- Itsonlynatural”

“but it's official dood, yer a blithering idiot.....

tilt, abraham lincoln was a republican you dumba$$. call me a racist again and it's on. don't hand me any cr@p about name calling either, that's as low as it goes....


ya'll(bush bashers) kiss my a$$, i aint talkin politics with any of you any more, cuz yu lack the intellectual capacity to have a healthy debate... with the exception of pedxing, and once inna while phaed.”

“Uh oh. Got your $#!+ hot.

The South became solidly Democratic in reaction to Lincoln's Republicanism and bad blood from Reconstruction. It remained so for a century... until the mid 1960s.

Is this MY fault somehow?

I was taught that in the sixth grade, not by some 'pointy-headed lefty college professor'. You need to catch up on your history.

Like I Already Said... I think you would have more of a problem with the folks at Bob Jones U. than you EVER would with me. But if you want to identify with those guys, is that MY fault?

(I have absolutely no way of knowing if you do or do not)

Is it MY fault that George Bush spoke there during the campaign and then tried to play dumb?

Good grief.”

“it's your fault for inferring that because i am a republican, i am by definition a racist. i know all about the history and it was democrats that were proslavery. the whole reason for the formation of the republican party, which lincoln was a major player in, was to state their disgust for slavery. the democrats of the time were the poeple who fought to keep slavery alive. that's what happened.


bush appointed more blacks to his cabinet than any president in history.......”

“Most people who know something about political science will tell you that the Democratic and Republican parties have traded roles over the last 140 years. When the Republican party first formed, they were the populists and the Democrats were the party of established power. Today, nearly 40 years after the Civil Rights Act, I think they've homogenized.

Personally, I think they both perpetuate racial and economic strife between the Lower and Middle classes as a subterfuge while they cater to Upper classes.

Yes, Republicans have nominated minorities... like Clarence Thomas, LOL. Not exactly another Thurgood Marshall. From what I've heard, he's never written an opinion; he just rubberstamps whatever Rehnquist and Scallia produce.

As for George Bush, Al Gore and those types... I'm just not a big fan of monarchies. I could do without these 3rd, 4th and 5th generation politicians.

BTW... What was your reaction to the flap over Bob Jones U.? Was it just another invention of the (Wholly Corporate Owned) liberal media?”

“the bob jones thing was stupid. that's my reaction.

and what the hell's wrong with monarcs? they are one of my favorite butterflies!

personally i think that liberals use minorities and pit them against other groups & try to create a dependant class in order to keep them comng back for more. it's all about votes & it's disgracecful. they don't want them to do better. they want them to think that without the gubments help, they can't thrive. read dr thomas sowell or professor walter williams if your really interested in the truth. you been duped SUCKAH!”

“But Republicans don't play the same games? I think they play the Middle class the same way... Then Somebody Else gets the lion's share of the tax cuts.

I understand why you don't trust Democrats, but why would you trust Republicans?

The story that killed me was the one about how the Gallo Family (of jug-wine fame) spread $2 million around Washington back in the 80s. Consequently, a small BIPARTISAN amendment (sponsored by Bob Dole, among others) was slipped through that saved the family $102 MILLION in inheritance taxes. Just Them... Nobody Else.



I think you're confusing Liberals with Democrats. Some people on the Left think all Republicans lean toward Facism. It's the same sort of assumption.”

“no, i chose my words carefully. i know that not all dems' are libs. thats why i said liberals in the last post. likewise there are different degrees of republicans. some are way more conservative than others. many many many conservatives think bush is way too liberal and criticize him alot(which makes no scence politically). he's actually somewhat mederate, as am i.

roseymonster on the other hand..... geesh. he thinks donald rumsfeld is worse than osama.”

“Yeah. Rummy's a warmonger too, bubba. And as for Sowell, he's a racist. I read his column for years when I lived in Atlanta, wrote at the AJC and it was carried in the Constitution (the edition with the conservative editorial board). Do an on-line search there and see what ya dig up, maybe you'll become enlightened.

Bush is a prick.”

“you do know that thomas sowell is black don't you?”

“Life Law #1: You either get it, or you don't.
Life Law #2: You create your own experience.
Life Law #3: People do what works.
Life Law #4: You cannot change what you do not acknowledge.
Life Law #5: Life rewards action.
Life Law #6: There is no reality; only perception.
Life Law #7: Life is managed; it is not cured.
Life Law #8: We teach people how to treat us.
>Life Law #9: There is power in forgiveness.
Life Law #10: You have to name it before you can claim it.

Fighting Fair

How you argue — especially how you end an argument — can determine the long-term success or failure of your relationship.

A primary requirement for any fight is to maintain control. You do not have the license to be childish, abusive or immature. If you have legitimate feelings, you are entitled to give a reasonable voice to those feelings in a constructive way. (That includes not being self-righteous or taking yourself too seriously.)”

“No really, Strat, thanks for cluing me in about Sowell. His friggin headshot is only next to the bi-line. You're extremely composed, as referenced in your above post beginning, "rosey...i tried...but it's official dood, yer a blithering idiot....."

Please don't feed me your happy horseshhit about how best to live MY life.”

“"personally i think that liberals use minorities and pit them against other groups & try to create a dependant class..."

Well there goes your argument. I am a Liberal and I don't do that.

I do suspect however that people to the right of Cheney might goose-step to work.

Again, you seem to think Republicans are Above That Sort Of Thing, which I find quite naive.”

“i am talking about the liberal leaders. you are merely a pawn, doing their bidding......



rosey....so you think a black man is a racist? care to explain how that is even possible?”

“But I'm not a Democrat.

I collected over 500 signatures for Common Cause's Project Independence in support of campaign finance reform. I voted for John McCain in the primary because he seemed to be the only candidate with a shred of integrity. I vote for a person, never a party.

You label yourself a Republican, and call me a pawn, LOLOL”

“I voted for McCain in the primaries and Bush in the election.

Stratdewd, Tilt is tilted. He really isn't someone to get worked up over.
You express yourself well and don't need to stoop to his level.”

“being black does not eliminate your ability to be racist. you can be racist no matter what race you are. it is not a black/white issue only.”

“Racism is reality.

I don't see any grey people.”

“i don't know of any grey people either. to be a little more specific, "white race/black race only". there are other races of people. a black man can be racist toward a white man, an asian man can be racist toward a hispanic man, etc.”

“buame, no...you dont get it....rosey is saying that thomas sowell, who is black, is racist towards black people. if you really want to know why he thinks this...look up thomas sowell(or walter williams) and see what they say. they cut through the BS and tell it like it is. they think the liberals are the real racists and make a very convincing arguement to show it.


tilt, i told you . i am conservative. and at the moment, i support bush because he is the most conservative president we have in office. john mcCain is a liberal republican and he talks like a slestack.....”

“Why am I not surprised?”

“now i get it.”

“If you bozos want to refight the War for Southern Independece, or rag on the Domocrats/Republicans, or decide who was in the KKK a hundred years ago, or trash BJU go do it in your own thread. This thread is about the cost Bush's Folly.”

“didn't you ever watch land of the lost?”

“Oh yeah...

But I forget, how did they speak?”

“That would be exactly what I expected from someone like yourself...

Just a question to throw out there to all of you? Should a politician/leader have to give his views on going to war or not?”

“Fine SH, but as indicated before, I think the cost --though the definition could be defined purely in economic terms -- is going to be much greater in terms of US respect and acceptance worldwide, potentially far greater in terms of human life should Israel use a nuclear bomb once Saddam lobs a couple of SCUDs with cholera on the tips into Tel Aviv.

Is this how people see the US winning hearts and minds?

http://www.msnbc.com/news/814576.asp?cp1=1

Afhanistan is in shambles and the pipe/bs dream that is Karzai is going to be a short and distant memory. I think the US is positioning itself for a long, drawn-out conflict that wanders from one country in the Middle East, to the next ranging from mediating civil war to propping up puppet governments to quashing "terrorist" urprisings. And whether it is "morally" motivated or just a land grab, I think there will be resentment not just from the residents of these cities we turn to dust but from the rest of the world. Those of you interested in invading a sovereign nation, based merely on the word of a man whose soul is bequeathed to the oil industry, with a 98 IQ and who barely made it through college, feel free. That's what this country is all about. Personally, I don't really want to be known as part of an imprialist nation, despised by the rest of the world.”

“You have no idea what I'm really like, but I think I captured the essence of your spiel quite well (complete with the 'broken record' reference).”

“Tilt...

If the US said no to the world on inspections what would happen??

...a broken record”

“Please clarify...”

“Right on roseymonster!

If the fools who "run" the U.S. want to perpetrate wars of imperial/colonial conquest for their petroleum patrons, they can do so without my teenage sons.”

“Here's my problem: I'm not convinced that Saddam is nearly as much of a threat as the current administration would have us believe. When asked for more proof, the reply is "We have proof, but we can't show you. You're just going to have to trust us."

I have a Large Problem with the current administration pushing for war during mid-term elections. As Andrew Card said, "You do not market a product in August; you wait until after Labor Day..."

The timing of this simply does not pass the smell test. It does not engender trust on my part.”

“It reeks!”

“I must admit, though... they've done a bang-up job of turning attention away from Domestic policy. What's up with the log-jam of appropriations bills? Will the gov't run on Continuing Resolutions until after the elections??

see:
legerdemain
prestidigitation
sleight of hand”

“your money-not theirs.their war-not yours.”