Back pain again

“I'm pretty messed up today. I am having severe back pain again, and I can hardly walk. Can't stand upright. Have to get a couple of things done here at work, then shuffle out to my car and drive 70 miles home, where a muscle relaxant awaits me. And pain pills if I get desperate.

I'm kinda pissed about this. I've lost some weight, and strengthened my abs some, this problem is supposed to go away...”

“Sorry Fritz. Good thing it didn't happen in Maine, but bad that it happens at all. Feel better soon.”

“Must be bad. I throw my back out every now and again and the pain is worse than the broken leg.

Get the muscle relaxer and chill. Report to the Injured Reserve Thread immediately.

Hope it passes soon.”

“I know how you feel.
I'm pissed at my body too.
Hope you get to feeling better soon.”

“This sounds like a related side effect that can often occur when having bouts of P.D.T.. I would recommend taking those relaxers and sleeping the next few evenings on the floor until you are ready to try the bed again.”

“I know they can be pretty wacky, but my wife has been going to a chiropractor for several years now. She was at a point where she couldn’t sleep or perform everyday chores. He’s helped her out tremendously. She just has to shut off her hearing when he starts in on how many people have been killed by traditional medicine and what-not.”

“I used to go to a whacky guy too but he did help...i also needed a 7mm lift in my left shoe and that has cured my backpain. mine was caused by slight scoliosis which made one leg longer than the other. after the lift, it straightened out everything.”

“awww...i hope you guys feel better!

”

“Wow Fritz, that sounds bad. :(
Take care of yourself, hope it gets better for you.”

“My chiro has helped me tremendously with my headaches. They are much less severe, and come much less often than they used to.

But she does get upset when I tell her how heavy my pack is. :)”

“you should hire yourself out a sherpa”

“My wife's chiropractor got all upset when he saw my daughter in the waiting room with her little doctor kit. He said the play syringe would lead teach her to do heroin. Yeah, yeah, just adjust my spine will ya?”

“I met a guy recently who is disabled and has neurological damage he attributes to a chiropractor (which is really a low-grade, unlicensed osteopath).”

“You and I seem to have the same ailments Fritz; knees and back. There are no magic cures. I wouldn't take a muscle relaxer unless I was practically paralyzed but that's just me. There are no easy cures. I've been doing yoga which I highly recommend but it's no cure all and you have to work your butt off - at least 5 days a week. No more weights for me. I think that is prob. the main reason for my pain now-heavy lifting plus all the sports I used to play. Get a good teacher before you go it alone.”

“bbinkley, know where i can get one?”

“They have loads in Nepal.”

“Wolf --

Your comments about yoga and weights are interesting.

I have never been big, and am in no way a classic weight lifter . . but I have been doing some basic lifts for a while now. I love squats (does anyone really like squats?)but think that, at the top end of my range, they are doing in my lower back.

I do 2 sets of ten reps at 180 lb between 2 and 3 times per week. . . I weigh about 155 and have legs like a chicken. I don't want to give them up . . .but am thinking I'll have to modify.

I ahve also been using a basic/intermediate yoga book to guide me through some stretching . . i really like it, and may look for a class.”

“Fritz -- the back sucks . . .sometimes I get severe spasms NOT from the activity itself . . but afterwards from something stupid.

E.G. the weight lifting, backpacking and/or stonewall building won't result directly in a spasm . . .but 2 days later tieing my shoe or reaching for my coffee cup will.

I think that I am braced/prepared for the big activities and therefore get through them okay . . .but they put stress on my back muscles that linger, and set me up for a spasm just a short while down the road.

Train your wife in massage . . .or find a good masseueueuss”

“Fritz- do you know what is causing the back pain? Is it compression? THere's a treatment here that I call "the rack." It's called vax-d, and they stretch your spine to allow decompression of pinched nerves and tissues. I know it sounds quacky, but stretching is one of the few things that helps my Mom's back problems.”

“Another alternative is accupuncture. My wife has had back problems and swears by the accupuncturist.”

“dang there is a lot of back problems here!!”

“Hot towels and massage. Now that would be the life!”

“squats are what killed me. I read a book "supersquats" and followed the workout to a "T." Other lifters swore by the book for putting on mass. DON'T READ THE BOOK except for entertainment purposes. I am 6' and weigh 170 lbs soaking wet and have "chicken legs" like yourself. I was squatting 250-275 - 25 reps. Yes, I got strong and yes I ran faster than ever before but i didn't gain weight(although i was eating like an animal) and now i have PAIN. Squats are a great excercise. You are doing the right thing by sticking to basic compound movements: squats, deadlifts, bench, standing presses. Just don't overdo it like i did.”

“And, of course, we all know that emotional stress is one of the biggest contributors to back pain. However, avoiding stress is easier said than done. I hope you figure it out, Fritz.”

“MEDITIATION - ommmmmmmmmmmmmmm.”

“I have to second (third?) the motion on the chiropractor. As I noted on the TT Injured Reserve thread, the SIX doctors I saw about my hip problem were a joke. The chiropractor I've been seeing seems to be solving the problem. The best thing is that she has taken an overall view of my health, not just the hip. The even better best thing is the way I'm treated at the office, not like a piece of meat with a wallet like at the doctors' offices. There are different chiropractic techniques - mine uses what she calls "directional non-force" technique, which involves, well, it's hard to describe. It doesn't seem like she does much of anything, then, BOOM, later that evening or the next day it hits you. Another half day after that and you feel great.

Hope you are better soon - be sure to keep us updated!”

“Well, I have made it safely home...I can still walk, and although it is painful and I look like a 90-year-old man, all hunched over and slow, at least I can make it to the bathroom and back. :)

Thank you for the sympathies and the ideas. If this gets just slightly worse, I will categorize it as officially episode #4. The first three all had me out of work for two days. For the first 24 hours I literally could not move without excruciating pain. Right now I am just barely better off than that.

Episode #1 - hit me in the grocery store. Without the cart, I would not have made it out to the car. I got home tumbled onto the driveway, and crawled through the garage into the living room, where I laid on my back and then simply could not move AT ALL. Four hours later the ambulance took me to the hospital. Two epidurals did nothing for me. I didn't get on my feet again until 2 the next afternoon.

Episode #2 (a year later): Sorting socks in my bedroom. All of a sudden I just knew I was going down and not getting back up. A week or two later I went to the orthopedist to have my back evaluated. They did flexibility and reflex tests, and x-rays, and told me they could see nothing wrong.

Episode #3 (a year later) - playing volleyball. Well, not even playing, I had been there for about 10 minutes, hadn't really jumped or dove or anything yet.

Episode #4 (today, 4 months later): After 5 mins of fast walking on the treadmill I started to jog. A minute later, my back zapped me and I almost fell down. Quit immediately, showered, went to my desk. Pain gradually got worse throughout the morning. At lunchtime I left work and drove home.

So I have been to the ER and to the Doc for xrays and have no real answers. I thought (and still think) that by losing weight and strengthening my abs, I can improve my situation.

Chiro's scare me. Pain meds scare me. Surgeons scare me.

The prospect of losing the ability to participate in all the activities I enjoy -- that TERRIFIES me.

Interesting, I have never had a problem backpacking. Today's problem is the nearest in proximity, and it has been a full week since I left the trail.

treebait - compression? Would that show on xrays?

yoga - I think that could be good.

... Ouch ... I'm just not having one of my better days... I may just go to bed for awhile.

Wolfman's Brother - why do you avoid MR's? Pain pills I avoid, but I guess I think the MR's actually have the potential to help me get better...”

“Dan and WB - yes, of course, stress - but there's no stress in my life! Just me and the five kids, the difficult marriage, the massive debts, the self-employment, the problems with the tax-collecting authorities, and the constant wory about how in the world I am going to put my kids through college.”

“I get severe muscle pulls that drop me like that. There never seems to be a reason. I just bend a certain way - a way I bend all the time with no problems, and then whammo, flat out like you said.

The instant it happens my mind screams out, OHNO,NOTAGAIN!!!

It usually takes about three days before I feel able to walk almost normally.”

“Backs are nature's way of telling us we're getting old.”

“Fritz, I understand that the common image of a chiro grabbing somebody's head and twisting their neck around 'till it practially pops off would be scary. Believe me, the technique I mentioned above is the farthest thing from "scary" you'll ever see. It's more like a massage than anything else. Yesterday I almost fell asleep during the "adjustments." Then, at the end of the appointment, you must lie down with an eye pillow on and relax for 15 minutes. Then, before getting in your car to go home, it's a 10-15 minute walk through the adjacent neighborhood. Not scary. I recommend it.”

“You certainly have your plate full, Fritz. I will refrain from any more advice. I hope we read a thread that tells of your recovery, soon.”

“Fritz, you and I talked about this, but I thought you said that muscle spasms were NOT causing this. But it sounds to me like it is.

* Hot wet towels or wet towel with heating pad.
* Muscle relaxer meds
* Intake of calcium, magnesium, zinc and potassium
* yoga, lots of careful stretching
* Hot wet towels again

In my experience, the backpacking helps because it brings heat and blood to the muscles. But if depleted of certain nutrients, the muscles can spasm.

As far as the stress, the kids will get college financing. This is probably the most stressful time you will go through. As the kids get older and fewer are at home needing chauffering and coaching, it should start to ease up. As far as the wife issues, only you walk in your shoes, so advice is usually lame. Some people go to counseling, most don't.

Good luck, I hope the pain eases up soon. :)”

“Fritz,
I know you are/were a runner. If I were you I would lay off the running for awhile (month min.) and see how that goes. I wouldn't take muscle relaxants b/c that only temporarily masks the problem (and who knows how healthy they are to your insides). You have to determine the root of the problem to solve it. You mentioned the pain kicked in as soon as you went from walking to jogging. That's a big sign right there. IMHO jogging is great for cardio but awful for the rest of your body especially the knees and back. The constant pounding aggravates the joints and compresses the spine not to mention the extreme tightening it does to your hamstrings. REAL bad stuff. Your body can take it when your younger but as you get older...? Of course, some are more susceptible than others. One of my yoga teachers was a competitve runner until he realized the damage it was doing to him once he started yoga. Yea, giving up activities you love sucks but can lead you to better things. I put my martial arts practice on the backburner b/c of pain I was having but now I'm hiking/backpacking and doing yoga more than ever before and loving it.”

“A hot bath and a massage by your favorite babe should do.”

“fritz, im sorry to hear that your in pain. i hope you feel better real soon!
if you need anything just ask!!
i might be heading to PA this weekend.





ps it.s mapleleaf but dont tell anyone”

“Yeah, I could sneak you some beer!”

“My wife's chiropractor doesn't even do as much as martyb's. It's basically a massage, no lying down with an eye pillow or anything. He taught her some very good stretching exercises that I use too when I push too hard. He also taught her what exercises not to do as they can push her spine out of whack. Definitely not scary. Yes she is probably going to go every couple of weeks for the rest of her life but its not because of some hocus-pocus the chiro did – its because her back is screwed up.

She was facing surgery and is generally resistant to taking drugs for anything so this is a good fit for her. The surgery and pain medicine dependence are a little scary IMHO.

Good luck buddy.”

“I thought this was interesting.”

“Fritz, very sorry to hear about your back. I'm in no position to offer advice, but from what I know, I'd look into Wolfman's Bro's advice about yoga.

----------

Here's an interesting theory on why so many people have back pain. I have heard this from a couple people and don't know the source, but it's logical and pretty interesting:

When mankind was evolving, one of the fastest parts to change was the brain. It got bigger, and prehistoric man got smarter at a seemingly exponential rate.

As man was getting smarter, he learned he could stand up really straight to see over tall blades of grass to spot danger or food. Furthermore, by walking taller he could maintain this viewpoint, and use his hands more freely for carrying tools and weapons, and grab fruit from a tree with ease. In a relatively short amount of time, man was no longer dragging those knuckles on the ground.

Conclusion: While our brains evolved quickly, our backs haven't. Our bodies are still catching up and adjusting to walking erect.”

“So the solution is????”

“Ergo, those of us with back problems have brains that are further along in the evolutionary process than those of you without?

:)

OK, folks, I am trying to open my mind to the chiropractor concept...

I will also look for a yoga class.

WB, I have done so very little running over the past 10 years that I have a hard time with that association. I ran on Sunday for the first time in two weeks. I have only run three times in the past year. And none of the other three episodes of severe back problems were triggered by running, in fact they were probably all separated from the nearest run by weeks or months.

This morning before it happened, my whole body was just "tight," I don't know how to explain that.”

“Don't forget the hot towels!”

“Whew! I thought Artex was going to suggest that we all had to start walking like monkeys or something and that that was somehow a way to bring up the Angels' stupid rally monkey thing. BTW, one possible Giants response to the Angels rally monkey is The Rally Phone (people wave their cell phones around or something). OK, so you had to be there.

Fritz, I just did a Yahoo search for "directional non force" and got 188 hits - looks like you could get some info on this pretty easily - good luck!!”

“I did three things yesterday that could have triggered this:

1 - I increased the weight on the ab machine. The one where you sit with a padded bar against your chest and lean forward to raise the weight, I think it is Cybex. That must put some stress on the back, but it should be ergonomically correct stress.

2 - mowed the lawn. We have a self-propelled mower but I just push it, for the workout. That is a little hard on my back sometimes.

3 - carried a dead 17" monitor out to the curb, but it was in a 19" monitor box, so the weight was out in front of me further than I would have liked.

All of those things seem much more likely to be culprits than what I did on the treadmill this morning.”

“I should shut up and quit whining about this. Again, I appreciate all the concern and advice.

Thanks!”

“No solution from me martyb, I just thought it was an interesting theory so I thought I'd share. :-)

Get better soon Fritz, more mountains await.”

“Fritz, Sorry to hear about your back. I had a sore back once and it was one of the worst pains, but it went away in a few days of rest so I don't have any advise. Hope you get better soon.”

“"My chiro has helped me tremendously with my headaches. They are much less severe, and come much less often than they used to.

But she does get upset when I tell her how heavy my pack is. :)"
Smiley girl
11:10:15 AM
10/22/02

"you should hire yourself out a sherpa"
bbinkley
11:15:47 AM
10/22/02

"bbinkley, know where i can get one?"
Smiley girl
01:09:48 PM
10/22/02


I hear there is one that comes to Michigan every now and then. I'm not sure what the rates are per day though.”

“Hopefully some good old fashioned rest will do some good Fritz. A few rest days won't hurt the fitness you gained. You have to get healthy for the next trip.”