Going back to school for older adults

“I finished the last 2 years of my degree at night as a non-traditional student. It took 3 years to get it done at 9 hrs/sem plus summers. I was 27 when I started back. Worked full time also. You tend to keep your priorities straight when you understand whats at stake.

Beware the AAS degree (assoc of applied science) as they generally will not transfer to a 4 year program.

I would value any advice from Phil on these matters. He appears to be one of the real "gurus" in his area.

Go Do It!”

“newgirl - I would be happy to be your academic advisor! I can also tutor in a lot of subjects.

maple - LOTS of good advice and encouragement from your TT friends on this thread. I guarantee that when you finish you will be happy you did it.

Regarding the GED, I had a cousin who never graduated from high school and she called me for advice. (In California you can attend the community college without your high school diploma. When get 56 sem. units you can transfer to a 4 year state school). She went to community college and then UC Irvine. She is now VP of HR for an investment company.

Regarding professors, some programs are aimed at the non-traditional student and some are not. That is important. Community colleges are usually accommodating to re-entry and non-traditional students. Hint (I did this): Visit the school and program you are considering and walk around the halls during classes. Talk to students and teachers in the hallways. You find out what people "really " think about the program and whether they are "friendly" or not.

If you major in Liberal Arts you will do a lot of term papers. Later I will give you the secret to doing term papers easily, quickly, and without tears (and I am not talking about plagarism)..”

“I started college at 16--got PG the same year. Twelve years later Robert and I packed up three school age children and went down to Tucson and college. The schoolwork was easy--the competition was 18 and flaky.
Running our home was difficult. We had to schedule things like house cleaning on Sat. with all five of trucking. The budget was ever so tight. We traded in our nice car for a Volkswagen for the gas mileage. We rode bicycles--I took the youngest child to school on the back of mine. I bought food in bulk made everything we ate from scratch.
We remember that time as one of the very best in our lives. The children feel that way too.”

“I went back to school part-time this past September. I had not done a paper since the 70's. I hope to go into education. I am non-degree seeking at the moment.”

“You CAN do it! I went back to school, at 40, on a GED. I found I actually enjoyed it. Not at all like HS some 22 yrs before. One particularly gratifying moment was at the first class of an English course. A post-high-school "child' walked in, looked around at all the "adults" in class, and asked " am I in the right room?" Most everyone in this class was 30+. I found life skills helped immensly in most classes. It took me 5 yrs to det a two-year degree, but now it's done! Hang in there!”

“I didn't walk down the aisle when I graduated from high school. I wound up having to go to summer school to finsih.

Now here I am 12 years later quitting my job and going back to school full time. I have 115 credits towards my BS and I already have my AS. Now I am finally going full time at the age of 30. I want to first get my BS in Biology with a minor in Chemistry. I might do a dual-major in Environmental Sciences or Biotechnology. Then I will continue going full time towards my Masters in Biology.

Good luck to all of you that are also attending school. Persistence is the key!


Twenty years from now you will be disappointed
by the things you didn't do; not the ones you did.
.....explore.... dream.... discover.
- Mark Twain”

“I had decided to attend college last fall/winter to start heading for a degree in journalism/advertising. I enjoyed going back to the classroom but decided that I would much rather remain in the job I have which I enjoy very much. In the meantime, my passion is with the arts and I am currently looking into a couple of ceramic/pottery programs in the area. So, going back to school to obtain a degree is not priority for me as much as feeding my passion is. I make decent money in my job but it is by no means one that takes care of me as a whole person. I commend anyone who goes back to school and betters themselves academically.”

“Like others said, GED doesn't matter maple - I barely had two years of high school - got my GED as soon as I turned 18. Where I work it doesn't matter what your degree is in, just that you have a degree.

Unlike Artex, I say sit toward the back by the door. :) I liked to be able to walk out when I needed a break, without anyone noticing too much.”

“I went to college right after high school and earned a BA in English with so-so grades. When I went back to night school to take the business classes I needed for my job, I enjoyed it much more and did very well. The job I have now will always require continuous education to meet licensing requirements - I like the idea of alway learning.

My son was younger when I first was going to night school. I was lucky to have a boyfriend who was willing to take care of him while I was in school. That really helped.”

“Mapleleaf, I teach at a rural northwoods community/technical college. We serve both traditional and non-traditional students who for a variety of reasons don't go off to one of the UW schools. I really enjoy most of my older, non-traditional students who are back in the classroom for the first time in years. They tend to be more focused, more purposeful, more enlightening. What they may lack in polished skills is usually more than offset by their experience.

That said, it is still a challenge for many non-traditional students to get in the groove of college, particularly when it comes to required reading and conceptual thinking. My tips for success are as follows:

1. DO sit in the front or close to the front so that you can hear instructors and see work on the board or projection screens more clearly, as well as be easily noticed and heard when you have a comment, answer, or question. Participation helps the instructor remember you and helps you feel part of the class.

2. DO read your textbook, but don't expect it to be recited for you by the teacher. While I often give an overview of key concepts in chapters, I count on students getting the details from the text and then being able to apply that knowledge in their assignments.

3. DO take good notes. The act of listening, mentally paraphrasing, summarizing, and recording the info accurately seats the info more effectively in your brain than simply listening (even if you never read the notes you took, though I recommend you do use them to study). In Interpersonal Communication, we refer to Level 1 Listening or Active Listening. It is participatory, not simply receptive. It takes more effort, but mays many dividends (and avoids many embarrassments -- just think of Peppermint Patty in Peanuts, who is the classic Level 3 listener in class, only paying just enough attention to know when she hears her name called, and then blurts out a wild guess that is invariably wrong).

4. Read your course materials, such as policies, schedules, and assignments, very carefully (and keep these handouts in a safe place until the course is over). I have students who get lower grades than they should simply because they do not follow instructions and therefore do not complete work correctly or accurately or completely. If you do not understand what is expected of you after carefully reading the material provided (or listening, if the assignment is given orally), make sure you ask questions of the instructor until you are clear.

5. Be humble and focus on what you are trying to accomplish. My goal as an instructor is to help you learn how to do what you need to do in your field at as high a level of proficiency as is practical in the circumstances. I hate grading, but I also hate it when students are more focused on the grade than the course content and goals. I don't want to hear about what GPA you are pursuing, I want you to SHOW me you are proficient at the skills the course addresses. If you do that, the good grades will take care of themselves.

The tough part in some courses is determining what the skills set is. Our system is working hard to be explicit on expected outcomes. But in a purely old-line academic environment, the skill set, unfortunately, may be sorting through reams of info so you can navigate a lengthy multiple choice test. Hopefully that won't be your purgatory. In a liberal arts course that assesses through term papers and essay exams, the skills set assuredly includes the elements of critical thinking. The instructor doesn't want to just know your opinion or conclusions about the issue, the instructor wants you to show your thinking that brought you to that conclusion -- concept, information, analysis, synthesis -- drawing on course readings, lectures, handouts, discussion, and research.

BTW, I went back to school full-time for a master's in writing after being out in the working world for 15 years. It was two absolutely fantastic years in a very supportive environment, which I know is not the case for all graduate programs. But I certainly appreciated being at the university more as a 38-40-year-old than I did from 18-23, even though I had much more serious responsibilities hanging over me the second time around -- such as a child to support. Returning to school will open many new doors for you, both figuratively and literally. It got me a year-long trip to China that would never had happened if I hadn't taken the leap back into school. Go for it Maple, you can (and WILL) pull it off!”

“...I've been invited up to your alma mater, MTU, to advise the humanties department and its graduate students in Technical Communication on preparing to teach at the community college level. Tech is thinking about starting a master's track to specifically address that focus. Of course, some of the very issues of this thread will be on my list of things to discuss.

Anyone you want me to say hi to if I run into them?”

“Say hello to the Delta Zeta's for me, although they prolly don't know who I am. I'm way too old now! I don't know anyone in the STC program (staff wise), so no.

Sunshine is there, so say hello to her!

Let me know if you want any suggestions on the fine beverage establishments in the area. :)

What I would do for a tostata pizza and a fish bowl...”

“http://www.mtulode.com/viewarticle.php?ArticleID=872 (article was written in Jan.)

If you want to see a Tech phenomenon, go see Gary play. Its a great time, and Gary is really part of the Tech culture. I remember the days he played at the Library, and then JD's (Wednesdays, $1 Rolling Rocks, got VERY sick one night!), and the other places he's played. I've also seen him downstate a couple times.

Gary likes to drink Tequilla. Once you get him going, he really starts rocking the house. Lots of sing alongs, and other interactive songs.

Thanks for letting me reminisce. :)”

“I teach a couple of courses at Boise State U, and I love having older students present. They always bring some life experience and maturity. The students that become a problem are those few that feel that they have to have a comment on everything I say, especially if they don't have knowledge about the subject matter. You would not believe the dumb things those few students ask or contribute. We were talking about layering clothes one time, and one of these problem students asked is you could use used carpet to make chaps with. Huh? Don't you engage your brain before you talk? (I thought). The older students never do stupid and time wasting stuff like that. You should have seen the problem student on the winter overnight trip. She showed up with a full pack and a suitcase full of the overflow! She had bars of soap in the suitcase, and books, and other crazy stuff.

Sorry to wander, but I think most teachers appreciate older students.”

“If a professor consistently sees averages grades on the first exam in the class (over the last several semesters) around 45%, doesn't that trigger something in the professor's brain, that perhaps the test is somewhat over the student's heads, or there was too much material covered on the exam? I had a multiple choice test, 25 questions, that covered 14 chapters of astronomy. The average this semester was 44.5%. I scored a 68. Thank goodness he grades on a curve.”

“pekka - good stuff.

smiley girl - Grading is a whole 'nother subject. I still struggle with it after 20 years of teaching. Frankly I agree with Dr. W. Edwards Deming that we should do away with traditional "fear-motivated" grading. They officially did away with "grading on the curve" at our university about 15 years ago. Grades are supposed to be based on what you know, not your rank in the class. Consequently you could give the whole class A's if they all mastered the material. I don't think anyone noticed it but me.”

“Smiley, no curves in my classes. All can get A's, or all can get F's (I don't give D's, however, just A, B, C and F -- Excellent, very good, competent, not competent would be a way of looking at that). As Phil said, mastery is the issue, not ranking.

And yes, if there is a pattern of students not being able to master the material or skills, the professor/instructor should be re-examining the assessment method, as well as the instruction method. For example, in my Technical Reporting class, I begin with a foundation of the Tech. Reporting Process -- the five-step concept (with 19 sub-steps) that applies in any reporting situation (and also applies to any homework assignment). Conceptual elements are often very difficult for my application-oriented students. Success on the explanatory essay test (the only test I give in the course) over the process was mixed; certain students had no problems, others just couldn't retain the framework nor elaborate on the elements.

So I created an initial project that requires them to create a mnemonic device -- a tech reporting rosary essentially -- that helps them remember the process -- and to write a set of instructions to tell another student how to construct and use the device. The students have to use the reporting process to learn the reporting process in order to tell someone else how to use it. They are allowed to use the "rosary" when taking the test. My overall success rate has been climbing as I have refined this assignment. This term, all students in both sections passed the test on the first try.

As Phil notes, though, many faculty are very set in their ways of teaching and assessing. Sometimes that is actually comforting to returning adults, because that was the system they last dealt with. They may not like it, but it is something they understand. Throwing a whole new assessment system in their laps can cause, initially, a whole new set of doubts about their chance for success. However, I try to work with them to accept that I am more interested in them showing me what they can do than on placing them somewhere on an abstract scale.”

“pekka - More good stuff. I agree: Low class grades probably means poor pedagogy, assessment methods, or both.

I use the instructional assessment for each course to improve it for next time. I am experimenting with WebCT now for assisting with face-to-face courses and teaching on-line.

In most of my classes I don't give tests any more...instead I give 5-7 quizzes and then drop the lowest one or two. Quizzes are becoming less of the total grade and team projects are becoming more important.”

“Pekka and Phil, you both hit on a point that I was trying to get at (although I didn't define it very well above). There is some connotation in being set up to fail the test. Before the guy even passed out the exam, he told us the average was 47%. Maybe I have rose colored glasses on, but seems that you'd want your students to succeed, not fail from the start. Failing the first exam in the class does not give one much confidence in one's abilities to handle the rest of the class, at least based on raw score. I don't see how you could set your students up for success, which I thought was part of a teacher's responsibility. The student's responsibility is to succeed.”

“Smiley, that was certainly my growing concern. When the first assessment in Tech Reporting was a test that left some students feeling defeated or incapable of success -- especially for older, returning adults or younger students who had limited H.S. success -- it did not help them get better engaged with the class.”

“Thanks.

This school experience will be quite different for me overall. Of course I'm trying to grasp all the material and do well in my classes, but more often, I find myself taking notes about how my professor is teaching the class, things I like and dislike about it, things I would do differently, etc.

Of course sitting in class making these observations, and actually putting them to use are two different things. :)”

“Smiley, sounds like you are well on your way to being a successful teacher..”

“Where to you teach? I see by your profile you're in Wisconsin. Where in Wisconsin?”

“Rhinelander.”

“you better learn to spell application before you send your applacation to them”

“do YOU really care?

gee did I spell the correctly or is it right?”

“Man i forgot what is was like to do homework.


ggggrrrrr

The libray was closed on Monday. So now I have no time to go afterwork. How do you guys find the time to study and do homework?
I really would rather go to the libray to do research then on the internet.”

“Just remember the goal.
It will be hard to get back into a study mode after all these years, but buck up and DO IT.
Set aside time for study every night and make yourself do it.
It will get easyier over time.”

“Maple, I usually try to eek out some time before or after class ea. night, when I go to the library at school and study. The other time I use is very early AM at home, when Newergirl is still asleep or very late PM after Newergirl is in bed. I also make the drive to school every couple Sundays and use the whole afternoon at the library. Other than finals time, this seems to get me by for studying.”

“Maple... always wait to the last minute LOL that works for me....if you study drunk then take your test drunk...same applies for being stoned. You want to take the test under the same conditions or as close as possible. Oh yeah study in the union where you can be distracted by all the hot guys that hang out there....”

“Man, I am glad that I forgot how to do homework! Been there done that! Between working, going to school, and transporting my daughter around was a little rough finding just the right time for studing. (BTW, graduated fall, 1999 from college and daughter graduated just last year from high school)I liked the studing at the school library, although there were times I'd be right in the middle of something and just had to put my head down for a short nap. Some nights and weekends were pretty much taken for studing, not much time for a social life, but did manage to fit "some" in anyway. If I didn't I would've gone insane.”

“First, all hard work is rewarded. There will be some other things sacrificed to get your stuyding time in, but there just isn't enough time in the day to do it all. Its like anything else in life, you make choices.

Second, my mother gave me some great advice when I started back this semester. She told me "don't study too hard, just do enough to get by." Yes, my mother told me this. I think she meant do your best, but within reason. Don't kill youself to get that "A" when you could do a lot less, spend more time with your other obligations in life, and get a "B". I think that's important for older students. At this point, no one looks at your grades anyway.

I've found it hard to keep up with all the reading I need to do, so I plant myself at the local library for a few hours each weekend. That way I can't get distracted by the bills that need to be paid, the laundry that needs to get put away, or the cats laying on my books that want to be petted!”

“I did very little studying, almost no reading, and have some textbooks I never even cracked the binding on. I attended every class and inhaled as much as I could then. I only read the stuff that was required for group work so I didn't mess up someone else's grade.

smiley girls mom is right.”

“I'll let her know you think so, twigeater! :)”

“Smiley's mom is right. Another way to put what she said is this: "What do they call the doctor that graduates last in his med. school class?" Give up? "They call him doctor." A good friend of mine told me that a few wks. ago. I'm a pyscho about getting A's and he finally said, "Listen, buddy, you gotta' calm down." Then he told me that one, I've been trying to make it my mantra.”

“forget getting an A, I just want to pass!
thanks guys for the help.
Im finding it a little hard to get into it all
Sat we have Food Drive then I have to go and tour the Aquiurm and find answers to 30 questions.
But I know I can do it..”

“The Quality Student - Most students do not realize that they can improve their GPA simply by demonstrating to the professor that they are a serious, conscientious, hard-working student. Why? Because the professor may give you the "benefit-of-the-doubt" while grading quizzes or exams or even reward you for your good attitude when determining your final course grade. The "Quality Student" does the following:

1. Always attends class
2. Always takes the prerequisite courses
3. Always pays attention in class
4. Always takes notes
5. Always attempts and turns in their homework
6. Always notifies the instructor about difficult situations that may be keeping them from optimum performance
7. Listens for helpful hints from the instructor
8. Keeps up with class material
9. Plans time to review and study for exams
10. Has a balanced life
11. Does their fair share on team projects
12. Does not "bicker" with the instructor over partial credit
13. Visits the instructor during their office hours with genuine questions from class notes or attempted problems
14. Always buys and keeps their books, software, and other "tools"
15. Looks for the best in every situation
16. Is a student of "interpersonal communications"

Addendum - Notice that it is not necessarily amount of time you put in, but what you do with it. Like Twigeater said, attend class and make the most of it.

You don't necessarily have to do all the assigned reading (depending on the class), although it will help. Learn how to skim and speed read.”

“find good websites to buy term papers off of:)
seriously, though, don't do tha if you can beat up the little kid and take his paper.”

“Of course the easiest thing to do Mapleleaf is to take your writing classes from me and do all your papers on things you learned from Trail Talk and backpacking with TTers. An entertained instructor is a generous grader! (Note: good spelling and grammar still count, though...sorry Ice Tea!)”

“Hey Pekka, you're headed to Da Tech this week, right? Have a great time!”

“Hei hei, smiley girl! Dat's right, der...off to da U.P. dis weekend. I just e-mailed Sunshine to see if she would be around to raise a toast to da TTers. I'll also give my best to your Alma Mater, smiley, and report back on how it's doing in your absence.

Ought to be interesting heading up to Houghton on the afternoon of a major holiday -- Opening Day of Gun Deer Season.”

“Phil, your "Quality Student" criteria set is a big hit with my colleagues. There are several considering adding it to their syllabi (I duly documented the source, so your fame is seeping into the fabric of the North Woods) or including the web address of your study habits page.”

“Just wanted to pop this to the top.....

I noticed on the last TT trip that there are a lot of TTers planning or are at this time going in to teaching....

So who out there plans on becoming a teacher?”

“Me!”

“Although we are not a teacher education institution as such (we do have an early childhood education program and a bridge program to a 4-year teaching degree), many if not most of my students this term are returning adults forced back into school by the economic downturn (i.e. plant closings, layoffs). Many trepedations on their parts, especially the older blue-collar guys.

Returning adults are often my favorite, and most focused, students.”

“Well sure, since they're focused on learning, and not trying to get the phone number of that little hottie on the fourth row...

When I was in college, especially in the math classes, it was the older students who had it the hardest. The pressure of trying to learn higher math from a teacher who barely spoke English, plus the stresses of having to juggle career, family, and school were too much for them. A lot of them fell by the wayside.”

“I went back to school from 1999 to 2000 to become a paralegal. I was 44 at the time. I graduated with a 97+ average and was never so focused in my life. I loved school more than ever. I commend anyone who goes back.”

“As an adult, I was a much better student.

:)”

“Me!!! I posted the same info on another thread, but I just found out that I am eligible to teach up in Maine, so I'll be moving up there this summer. I still have to take some classes while I'm teaching so I can become fully certified, but no biggie, and I was VERY happy to find out that I can teach right away! :-)

I'll be teaching high school science (Life Science or Biology) if all goes well.


Yahoooo!!!!!!!!!!!”

“lol, me too MDS. My first three quarters, when I was 18-19, I ended up on academic probation. When I finally went back for good, in 1987 (24 years old) I was consistently on the Dean's List, and ended up graduating magna cum laude.”