Protecting the Environment-Any ideas?

“The Next Industrial Revolution

design with no harm to any living creature or system as part of the design intent

"regulation is a signal of design flaw"

McDonough Website”

“i think i would blow the whistle on them biz. i think to answer your question, the reason taxpayer don't get mad is that they don't have any idea of how much money government wastes. i'd rat um out in a heartbeat. just think of all the real good we could do if we cut out all the waste and fraud. a billion dollars would help, in the right hands......



newgirl, i like the way you think. very honest and practical. you know......for a girl n evrything....”

“What does everyone think about Bush's proposal to put snowmobiles back in Yellowstone. I just don't know enough about the issue from here in Indiana.

But from an uneducated point of view, it pisses me off that Bush is undoing some of the seemingly good environmental things Clinton got done while in office.

If it is really so bad that park workers have to wear resperators and ear plugs than it is really a shame. Any opinions??”

“They shouldn't allow the snowmobiles off of the road system, and they should have no snowmobile activity after dark. They can't allow it to get like the town of West Yellowstone.

They should require 4 cycle engines and mufflers. They should encourage snowvan/snowcoach travel between lodges.

Check out my trip report from Yellowstone in the winter. Skip down to the photo links, the first couple are of West Yellowstone and going into the Park in February.

Yellowstone ski trip”

“Thanks for the links Pathman. Unbelievable trip report. It must have taken you month to type it all up.

I can't view the photos now. My computers down and I'm working off an old laptop with a 33K modem :(

I thought that I heard the new rules on snowmobiles are going to ban 2 stroke motors?

Are the snowmobiles being used as transportation from place to place,or are they just joyriding through the wilderness?”

“Protecting the environment will be tougher now that Bush has won such support.

Hopefully they will keep the loggers out of Sequoia and the RV's out of the Imperial Dunes area of California.

How about the oil pipelines they want to run?

The Clinton administration was terrific at establishing National Parks, wilderness areas, and envionment peotection. Let's see how fast #43 and his gang of capitalists can run roughshod over the wilderness.”

“Indiana John, that was Feb of 2000. I don't know the current status but I know Bush wanted to liberalize them.”

“Indiana, I haven't been up to West Yellowstone in a couple yrs., but I do know that some of snowmobiling is legitimately used for transportation up there. There is alot more of the touristy, joy riding stuff though. I think that kinda' sucks. I have a friend that guides sled dog trips in the areas around the park. I think that is way cooler. She says that the people who do it love it and she likes it enough to take the winter off every yr. to do it.”

“I'd like to see more accomplished to deal with the ATV problem. Some of the new laws they put into effect last year don't seem to be working and they are still littering our forests and tearing them to shreds.”

“I've enjoyed reading the many viewpoints and experiences here. I am always trying to find that balance within me of wanting to keep all undeveloped land undeveloped and that fact that every city in the world used to be undeveloped at one point or another.

Florida has some weighty environmental issues, the most prominent of which is the protection of the Everglades.

It does start with individuals. We can all make a difference and set an example.”

“well said, Coop. Good thread, Biz. It's been a while since I've seen one one of these.

I read an interesting article the other day, that mentioned tax write-off incentives in the works for those purchasing certain fuel-efficient vehicles. It also described several new models in development from many of the major auto manufacturers. The writer proposed that "hybrids" (cars that run on fuel and electric combined) will become the new competition

Whether this is prompted by threats of war with oil-filled countries(likely) or a genuine concern for the environment(yeah right), it is still a good start.

I love my little Honda, which gets up to 32 MPG. Now, where's my rebate?!
:)”

“This is a good thread!

I expect to be joining the West Virginia Highlands Conservancy soon.
Geobeet, please hound and shame me into following through on this promise.

AmyG, what's happening with FYAO'03?
Mine is quite ready to be frozen off!”

“Get rid of Bush.”

“If you're not in favor of urban sprawl, contact a local "1,000 Friends" or "Smart Growth" group.

I was at a recent speech by the 1,000 Friends of Iowa's executive director.

I thought the story I did might be on our website, but it's not. So, if you're so inclined, here it is. Yes, it's a lot more than a short, friendly reader piece.

1,000 Friends call for end to urban sprawl

By lizs<<<

The tragic death of Minnesota’s United States Senator Paul Wellstone in a recent small airplane crash did not go unnoticed as a group of people concerned over land use issues met Saturday morning at Luther College in Decorah.

Ed Fallon, a founder and current executive director of 1,000 Friends of Iowa, is involved in politics himself. A Democrat, he represents District 66 – downtown Des Moines and surrounding environs – in the Iowa House of Representatives.

In his opening comments, Fallon remembered Wellstone as “America’s Senator.” Fallon recalled the only time he gave his 1,000 Friends of Iowa presentation to an audience of one – to Wellstone, at the Senator’s request.

“He asked a lot of really astute questions then,” said Fallon, adding that Wellstone’s progressive leadership would be missed in Washington D.C.

Responsible land use
The 1,000 Friends of Iowa organization also goes by the name Citizens United for Responsible Land Use. Members fight against urban sprawl and its perceived problem, often while forming unusual alliances with other groups, according to Fallon.

He compared urban sprawl to a doughnut. As more people build farther from a city’s core, it pulls the city’s infrastructure farther out, while leaving a hole in the center for what used to be a vibrant and functioning downtown area.

Fallon noted 50 percent of land inside Iowa’s 950 cities is still zoned agricultural, according to an Iowa State University Extension Service study in 1998. However, it said that from 1986-97, 88 percent of all new growth occurred outside cities.

Sprawl is negative
The negatives of urban sprawl affect many different topics, according to Fallon.

He cited nuisance suits by people new to a rural area. “The urban fringe can conflict with a farmer’s ability to produce,” said Fallon.

Natural and scenic areas are affected, according to Fallon. He noted the Loess Hills on Iowa’s western boundary being ripped apart due to development. The unique characteristics of the Loess Hills area have led to it being suggested as a national park.

Urban sprawl leads to the decline of urban centers. Fallon said that Des Moines has 5,500 vacant lots, while the new homes continue outward.

He said he hated to see the decline of historic buildings in a town’s center. “They’re wonderful buildings,” said Fallon.

Bad for business
New shopping centers at the edge of cities negatively affect already existing centers and downtown businesses, according to Fallon. He noted the new Coral Ridge Mall at Coralville has caused a decline not only to business in downtown Iowa City, but also to a surrounding 16-county area.

“We don’t have a free market anymore,” said Fallon. He noted the Coral Ridge Mall used TIF (tax incremental financing), which "stole taxes" from the surrounding school district and thus resulted in higher taxes throughout the state to tax payers.

Fallon spoke of how much money goes into new roads, sewer and water to new areas at the edge of cities. He noted the extension of services is not an economical use of funds.

Developments are often tax subsidized. Fallon said that functions against the current small businesses of a town.

“Studies show residential developments almost always lose money,” he said, asking how 160 1-acre lots could make money after the extension and expenses of roads, sewer, water, TIFs and tax abatements.

Possible solutions
Fallon also suggested solutions.
He said coordinated, comprehensive planning is needed, that would look at growth at least 20 years into the future.

When asked about comprehensive plans for counties – and their relationship to actual zoning ordinances – Fallon said they are a binding legal document. When another question pointed out that zoning often seems to not follow its respective comprehensive plan, Fallon said he would check with the Iowa Attorney General’s Office on legalities.

Fallon also suggested targeting existing subsidies.

He said the pursuit to save land has created some “creative coalitions.” Fallon noted staunch Republicans and Democrats working together, as well as religious groups, school kids, farmers and hunters.

“It’s not a partisan issue,” said Fallon.

Students researched
His appearance was one of a series of events during a three-day land use symposium at Luther College.
The symposium was the culmination of research by eight Luther students exploring the relationship between people and the land where they live.

The research was supported by a $40,000 grant from the National Conferences on Undergraduate Research (NCUR) and the Alice and Leslie E. Lancy Foundation.
The students – Miriam Blom, Tim Fink, Amy Frye, Eric Hudson, Kate Jacobson, Holly Johnson, Gwen Rudy, and Nick Schmidt – conducted their research during the summer of 2002. They made Winneshiek County their laboratory, interacting with its citizenry and asking questions about the choices people make relative to the environment.

Luther was one of only two colleges to win grants in the current round of the NCUR/Lancy Initiative. Twenty-six colleges and universities submitted proposals to the competitive grant program.”

“stop them”

“http://www.stopglobalwarming.org/campaigns/sgw/impact/2145334f77b6a5d0ca98b9310ad0f1fb/

Found a great website!”

“Found a great website!

Could you share it with us?”

“Pull down your pants turn around and look in the mirror!”

“Nicely shaven! ... and round too!”

“I heard it was kinda flat!

jj”

“It was ... until I got Buns of Steel for Men.

That's right, I have buns of steel for men.”

“Better be careful around magnets Sarge. You don't want to get stuck.”

“Beggin' for your date on Saturday night? Don't ask don't tell!

Report directly to out of context quotes thread!”

“How about:

Have fewer children

Eat less meat and dairy

Work closer to home or live closer to work

Do for yourself and ask less of others”

“I think America needs more long-distance skateboard trails.”

“Go buy the best piece of wild land you can find and afford and do nothing with it, ever.”

“Revelations 7-3 The Indians were right. It's too late for us.”

“Build fewer (how about none) golf courses and ski slopes.

Golf courses paint their grass green with a chemical bad for life downstream

and

ski-slopes (at least the ones who manufacture snow/ice) add a bacterial agent to the water so the water from the machines will freeze at a higher temperature than normal freezing and that bacterial agent is detrimental to native life downstream.

Golfers 'suck' (and of course are duly rewarded with their chiropractic dilemnas for vigorously and repeatedly girating their body in an unbalanced movement always in the same direction, HA HA HA) and skiers are not far behind (referring to their attitude).
last edited: 10/28/05 7:02:51 PM”

“And while I'm at it, did I mention snowmobilers, ATVers, jetskiers and pleasure boaters in general, bad attitude.

They don't know how, after spending 30 gallons of gas on a weekend, to just get out and walk.

Top tip: Just stay home.
last edited: 10/28/05 7:20:41 PM”

“Ophra featured Leonard di Caprio talking about global warming. Yeah, sure he can afford an expensive hybrid car. The Prius which is not the cheaper car that he does not own is supposed to be problematic. Should we all run out and by one. I suppose if it breaks down, that's less energy being used.

When they iron out the kinks in them, I will consider buying one, but for now, I am still buying low gas mileage cars, but for monetary reasons.

The "science guy" with Leonardo said to buy these $10 engery efficient bulbs that last forever, so you pay less in the long run and also those other type of bulbs, I forget what they call them; they've been out a while.

Leonardo also built an energy efficient eco friendly house from scratch powered by solar energy. If he wants to build me an energy efficient house, I'll live in it!

Ophra was kind of....not into the whole energy efficient thing. She says she has one of the huge SUVs they mentioned as being the worst gas mileage SUVs at 13 miles per gallon. She says she need her car and gas and she said she doesn't know if her dogs can fit in a hybrid, but she'll consider getting one, yeah right!
last edited: 10/28/05 10:02:48 PM”

“Leonardo flys airplanes in the desert and commercially and goes on lavishly expensive cruises.”

“Why that freakin sneaky B@stard!!!!! I guess he left that part out.”

““How about:

Have fewer children

Eat less meat and dairy

Work closer to home or live closer to work

Do for yourself and ask less of others”
lonesurveyor
6:20:09 PM
10/28/05"

Please stop with the reason and common sense. It will not be tolerated. LOL!

A virtual march? Have the enviro-wackos gotten that damn lazy they won't even get out their in their hippy clothes and drum circles and actually march? Damn, and I though Buddha Bear and Violin were frickin' lazy in their cut and paste activism. But hey, whatever keeps the far left docile and inert.”

“Lone's list makes good sense.

I'd add Repair and/or re-use when you can.

Those compact florescent bulbs really do save money and energy in the long run.

Also, eat what you need - don't let yourself get overweight (I'm not good on this one - over-eating does me no good and it means a heavier ecological foot-print on my part).

Wear sweaters and turn the heat down in the winter. In the summer, dress for summer and take it easy on the AC.”

“LOL! I'm not sure if you guys are serious or not.”

“Interesting Evangelical statement on the environment:

http://www.nae.net/images/civic_responsibility2.pdf

Home page for NAE:

http://www.nae.net/
last edited: 10/29/05 10:19:46 PM”

“There is some very odd scripture referencing in that document. I wonder what person wrote it. It's as if they're trying to apply scripture to their message, but the two are unrelated ...

Like paying taxes to Caesar. Yeah, that's about paying taxes to government. That doesn't mean you're supposed to grow and use government for certain things. The list goes on and on. Most Christian writings sound very different than that in that they apply scripture to their message. That kind of gave me the creeps.
last edited: 10/29/05 10:27:29 PM”

“interesting to read that evangelicals are beginning to "tune in" to caring for creation and civic responsibility.
Who wrote that article?”

“Interesting Sarge. Not being an evangelical - I am in no position to vouch for them or critique them as Biblical evangelicals.

Ronald Reagan was a big friend to the NAE. As they proudly note on their website, he made the famous "Evil Empire" speech at their convention in 1983.

That, of course, is part of why I find it interesting and heartening that they take this view.


Hiker: It is an official policy document of the National Association of Evangelicals.”

“interesting to read that evangelicals are beginning to "tune in" to ...

Beginning?

To believe they aren't already is believing the stereotypes perpetrated by the liberal media.”

“Eradicate most all pets and domestic animals.”

“Sarge: I'm wondering what, specifically, in the text you are referring to. I had a chance to go back and look - but it's hard to figure out what in that statement you are characterizing in that way.”

“hiking's post”

“1. Quit electing republicans.

2. See #1

3. All of the above”