Attention bicycle riders

“Stan - Seat / Saddle, You are right I guess. The manufactures usually call them saddles but they are mounted on a seat post not a saddle post.”

“Did anyone catch that the department was using $30 saddles? That's the problem right there. If the cops would just go buy their own saddles and wear good shorts they would be fine.”

“I live off a very curvy and hilly county road. It's a road that locals routinely go 45-50 miles an hour on, because you never know what piece of farm equipment is around that next curve or over the hill. You have to be careful.

Yesterday afternoon, heading home from work, I nearly clobberd two assclowns on bicycles. I was going my usual, safe speed, and when I crested a hill, there suddenly appeard two bicyclists riding side-by-side in the middle of the lane. Naturally there was a dump-truck with a load of gravel coming in the opposite lane, so I couldn't pass. I had to stand on the brakes and swerve to the right (the shoulder is about 12 inches of gravel at best). Fortunately, my car has good brakes - I didn't hit them, but it was close. I honked at them and waved them to the side of the road, but of course the idiots in their gay technicolor spandex turned around and flipped me the bird. I passed them and yelled at them and continued on my way.

What kind of IDIOT does that? Why does it seem that every time I meet up with bicyclists they are the lance armstrong wannabes in their effeminate spandex, riding side-by-side? Are they too STUPID to realize they're risking their lives and the lives of others? What if someone had been right behind me? I could've been rear-ended and pushed into them. What if I hadn't seen them right off the bat?

I know that bicyclists have a right to be on the road. I've done it and enjoyed it. However, I was on a flat road known for bike traffic, with a shoulder, riding single file.

Just because you have the right to ride on roads like mine doesn't mean you should. Drivers aren't going to go 20 mph just in case there's a bike over the next hill; in fact there's a good probability some ass is going to be going too fast for the road. It sucks, but that's the fact. If you bicycle on a road like that - YOU"RE THE PROBLEM, not the drivers.”

“ooohhh... poor man was delayed by the evil bicyclist..... let's all cry for him.....”

“No, I did not say it was matter of being delayed, ramblinrev. Reading is Fundamental! Take a remedial course.

What the problem is, is that bicyclists who insist on riding on dangerous roads are risking EVERYONE'S lives.”

“hehehehe... you's breaking my heart. grow up and learn to share.”

“Ah, I see you have no intelligent rebuttal. When you can't face the facts, belittle the messenger.

Welcome to my iggy list, doofus. *click*”

“iggy pop....”

“ message from Ramblinrev being ignored.

Ah, what a nice feature! LOL.”

“Cujo:I`m a road cyclist averaging 140 miles a week.Let me tell yah Most of the time it isn`t cyclists,it`s the morons in cars.I`ve had four to five extremely close calls in the past few months,only the fact that I`ve learned to be hyper-vigilante on my bike has kept me alive.

I`ve had cars sail through stop signs,red lights,open doors on me and barrel out of their laneways with out looking. I`ve had drivers not willing to share the road and have forced me into the ditch and I`ve got more than my share of the "finger" from rude,inconsiderate drivers.

Yes there are inconsiderate cyclists out there,but rude,inconsiderate idiot car drivers far out way those on bicycles.”

“I whole-heartedly agree, paddles. There are PLENTY of morons driving cars. But that doesn't change the FACT that YOUR choice to ride on a dangerous road is increasing the RISK for everyone.

It'd be one thing if you're commuting, but out here it's just the pleasure riders.”

“troll”

“Ah, another person with nothing intelligent to say. *click* LOL!”

“anybody wanna bet he peeks... just to see what he is ignoring.... ?”

“Who cares?”

“Here's an idea - post your complaint on a bicycling board.”

“Cujo, since you want cyclist to ride on a non-dangerous road could you please tell me where one is at? So far I haven't seen one. It doesn't matter if it is flat or has hills. You said you were driving your usual safe speed...was that over or under the speed limit. If you know you are cresting a hill that cyclist ride on you should have been doing less than the speed limit.

Saying that the cyclist should have been riding in a single file esp on a hill that has no shoulder”

“Ewker, that's a fair question. A safer road for bicyclign would be flatter and straighter with wider shoulders, no doubt about it. Or city streets, esp with bike lanes. This is common sense.

My road is 55 mph speed limit. "Townies" who live and farm on the road typically do 40-45. Even going that slow is not enough to prevent accidents with bicyclists. And of course there's drivers who are driving through that do not do a safe speed.

There are other hazzards - like deer and farm equipment for example. But deer are going to be around no matter what, and people have to make a living.

The problem comes when someone decides for their own pleasure that they're going to put everyone at risk by being somewhere dangerous that they really have no good reason to be. I agree it sucks for the cyclists. They have the LEGAL right to be there, but MORALLY, they are putting everyone at risk for no GOOD reason, and that's the heart of this problem.”

“suppose there had been a stalled car just over the hill.... or a deer... or maybe farm machinery... or a tree had fallen. It is the requirement of the driver to match speed with conditions and to expect the unexpected.

Had he not honked they may have pulled single file to let him pass. I know very few cyclists with a death wish. But when I driver honks at me instead of letting me go about my business I assme he has no regard for anyone but himself.”

“Okay, I'm a cyclist, I ride roads that often have speed limits of 55 mph. So What??????

Now before you go thinking I'm all for cyclists, that they are blameless, there are some who don't follow the rules of the road, and they are wrong for doing that. However, more often than not it's a car, truck, SUV, or minivan that causes the issue, not the cyclist.

I have a right to the road as....get this...a motor vehicle. And you won't believe this either, it's legal, at least in Ohio, for cyclists to ride side by side. So while you get all pissy about them slowing you down and riding side by side and, oh no, say it ain't so another vehicle in the on-coming lane, they were likely legally doing what they are entitled to do.

You're just ticked because you nearly got into an accident and you are blaming the cyclists. Who would you blame if you crested that hill and there was a slow moving piece of farm equipment or a broken down vehicle? In all 3 of those instances, had something gone very wrong, you'd likely have been at fault in the eyes of the law.”

“I almost missed your post, Grave Dancer.

I have - as you might imagine, it wasn't well received at first.

But, after my logic stood up to their counter-arguments, at least some were mature enough to admit I had a point.”

“on a narrow road with no shoulder it is strategically important for the cyclist to "take the lane". Pairs of cyclists will often ride double file in that situation. Here is the reason, many drivers will try to squeak past too close to the cyclist and squeeze them off the road on to the shoulder if they do not aggressively take the lane. If the driver has to go into the opposing traffic to get past they are much more likely to slow down. There was a large truck coming the other way... I could see our driver friend trying to squeeze past in the one lane creating the very hazard he was forced to avoid. Sounds like good safe riding to me.
last edited: 10/02/07 10:56:03 AM”

“Pissedofflaxdude, I'm not saying you don't have a LEGAL right to ride. Okay? You have a legal right to ride on highways that aren't otherwise restricted to bicyclists. I wouldn't have it any other way.

HOWEVER, like I said before when you choose to do something that endangers others for no justifiable reason other than your own pleasure, THAT'S when you cross the line.

YES, there's road hazzards. I know of a couple people who've been hit while riding their tractors. There's been the ocassional broken down car (funny, they usually pull off into the ditch at least). Never heard of anyone hitting a broken down car on this road.

But the farmers are THERE FOR A REASON. They are MAKING A LIVING. It's just not a choice for them, though I know for a fact that farmers tend to take every other choice BEFORE venturing out on the highway in farm equipment.”

“Summary of Missouri State Statutes Related to Bicycling
• Motorists may not do anything, even something that otherwise appears to be legal, that endangers a bicyclist, pedestrian, or other motorist. Safety, not speed, is the highest consideration in traffic law.
• In Missouri, bicycles and motorized bicycles may ride on any street except travel lanes of interstate highways or where prevented by local law.
• Bicyclists have the same rules, rights and responsibilities as other drivers. For example, bicyclists must stop at stop signs, signal turns, and drive on the right-hand side of the road.
• This means that motorists must treat bicycles as any other vehicle. For instance, do not pull out in front of a moving bicyclist, cut a bicyclist off, or pass a bicyclist unsafely.
• When traveling slower than traffic, bicyclists generally move to the right of the travel lanes, just as other slow moving vehicles do. But do not expect bicyclists to hug the curb, dodge in and out between parked cars, or ride on a debris-covered shoulder. Bicycling that way is not safe, and the law requires bicyclists to ride safely.
• If the lane is too narrow to safely share between a bicycle and a motor vehicle, the bicycle may move towards the center of the lane so as to discourage motor vehicles from dangerously squeezing past in the lane. If you see a bicyclist riding in the middle of the lane in this way, the bicyclist is following the law. Slow and wait behind the bicyclist until it is safe to move into the next lane to pass.
• Bicyclists may sometimes ride the shoulder of the road when available. But they are not required by law to do so. Obstacles in the shoulder such as glass, debris, or rough pavement may not be obvious to the motorist but may be very dangerous to the bicyclist.
• Bicycle lanes may not be blocked or used for parking. Motorists must signal and yield to any bicyclists in the lane before crossing a bicycle lane. As with shoulders, bicyclists may leave the bike lane for any number of reasons, including debris, obstacles, or to prepare for a turn.
Bicycle-related Quotes from the Missouri Driver Guide
• “On public streets and highways, [bicyclists] have the same rights and responsibilities as a motor vehicle operator.”
• “If you are following a bicyclist and need to make a right turn, you must yield to the cyclist. It is often safer to slow down and remain behind the cyclist until you are able to turn.”
• “Motorcyclists and bicyclists change speed and lane position when encountering bad road conditions, such as manhole covers, diagonal railroad tracks, road debris or in strong winds. Be ready to react.”
• “When you are passing, give motorcycles a full lane width. If possible, give a full lane to bicycles and mopeds, too. Do not squeeze past these road users. The bicycle is generally a slower moving vehicle and this may require you to slow down. Wait for a clear stretch of road before passing a cyclist in a lane too narrow to share.”
• "The operator of a motor vehicle overtaking a bicycle proceeding in the same direction . . . shall leave a safe distance when passing the bicycle, and shall maintain clearance until safely past the overtaken bicycle." Passing unsafely is a traffic offense punishable by driver license points, fines, and even jail, if a collision results.
• “The law says who must yield the right-of-way; it does not give anyone the right-of-way. You must do everything you can to prevent striking a pedestrian or another vehicle, regardless of the circumstances.”
• “Sharing the road with others, in a considerate manner, makes the road safer for everybody!”


Summary of Missouri State Statutes sources: Missouri State Statutes 300.330, 300.410. 304.012, 307.190, 307.191, and 307.678

Bicycle-related quotes sources: Missouri Driver Guide, January 2003 Edition, Chapters 4 and 7, and 304.678 RSMO



Missouri State Law for Motorists Interacting with Bicyclists

307.188. Rights and duties of bicycle and motorized bicycle riders. Every person riding a bicycle or motorized bicycle upon a street or highway shall be granted all of the rights and shall be subject to all of the duties applicable to the driver of a vehicle as provided by chapter 304, RSMo, except as to special regulations in sections 307.180 to 307.193 and except as to those provisions of chapter 304, RSMo, which by their nature can have no application.

Explanation: Motorists must treat bicycles with the same regard as they would any other vehicle; bicyclists have the same rights under traffic law as do other vehicles. And, on the other hand, bicycles must obey the same traffic laws in the same way as motor vehicles, with very, very limited exceptions.

304.012. Highest Degree of Care. 1. Every person operating a motor vehicle on the roads and highways of this state shall drive the vehicle in a careful and prudent manner and at a rate of speed so as not to endanger the property of another or the life or limb of any person and shall exercise the highest degree of care.

Explanation: Motorists may not do anything, even something that otherwise appears to be legal, that endangers a bicyclist, pedestrian, or other motorist. Safety, not speed, is the highest consideration in traffic law.

304.678. 1. The operator of a motor vehicle overtaking a bicycle proceeding in the same direction on the roadway, as defined in section 300.010, RSMo, shall leave a safe distance, when passing the bicycle, and shall maintain clearance until safely past the overtaken bicycle.
2. Any person who violates the provisions of this section is guilty of an infraction unless an accident is involved in which case it shall be a class C misdemeanor.

Explanation: When passing a bicycle, you must leave a safe distance when passing and not return to the right part of the road until safely past the bicyclist. Passing unsafely is a traffic offense punishable by driver license points, fines, and, if a collision results, even jail.

304.016.4 When passing is allowed. No vehicle shall at any time be driven to the left side of the roadway under the following conditions: (1) When approaching the crest of a grade or upon a curve of the highway where the driver's view is obstructed within such distance as to create a hazard in the event another vehicle might approach from the opposite direction;

Explanation: Motorists often attempt to pass bicyclists as they are traveling around curves or approaching the crest of a hill. But squeezing dangerously past the bicyclist and pulling blindly into the oncoming lane are both illegal. So if the lane is wide enough to pass the bicyclist, leaving a safe distance between your vehicle and the bicyclist, while remaining on the right half of the road, then you may pass if safe. However, if safely overtaking the bicyclist requires you to pull onto the left side of the roadway, then the law requires you to wait behind the bicyclist until your view ahead is clear.”

“Cujo, you ARE WRONG!

Find me a safe road! There aren't any. Period.

It's my legal right, and if you hit me it's your fault. If you can't see far enough down the road, you need to slow down.

It's not the cyclist endangering others, it's drivers of cars, trucks, SUV's and Minivans. When is the last time you heard of a cyclist killing another cyclist? Or injuring a person in a car. And you ducked my point of 'What if it were a broken down car or slow moving piece of farm equipment?' You'd have had the same issue and you'd have been at fault. So your argument that because of what they are doing or their purpose on the road holds no legal water. It doesn't matter why they are there, just that they are there and legally so!

Grow up! Take some responsibility for your actions. Who said they weren't commuting to work? I do. So again, your circular logic is useless, you are blaming someone else for YOUR actions!”

“Thanks Lee, I know what the law says. That's not what's at issue here. Try to keep up.”

“I noticed yo're from Missouri, so I thought I'd be helpful and point out some of the laws governing the conduct of a) drivers and b) cyclists.



To your points:

in the interest of self preservation, certainly folks biking on curvy back roads would be WELL advised to ride single file. I agree with you.


However. From what you described, you are so clearly in violation of both the letter and spirit of the law in about 12 different ways.


I suggest, that once you get over your case of road rage, (because that is what you have my friend), that you read over what I posted.


Not only do the bikes have a right to be there, they have the right (as long as not impeding other vehicles) to ride abreast, under either 307.190 or 307.191

I hope the cyclists got your liscense plate and turn you in.

I have done it myself and will do it again.”

“Pissedofflaxdude, on this particular road, you CAN'T see far enough down the road. So slow down, right? YES! I do. We do, the people who live on it. But slow down to a speed that would put myself at risk from somebody hitting me from behind just in case there's a bicyclist who chooses to risk everyone's life by being there for no good reason? I DON'T THINK SO. Creating a hazard to avoid a hazard makes NO sense WHATSOEVER.

And no, I did NOT avoid your question of Farm Equipment and broken down cars. Throw deer in there too. The occasional cow that gets on the road. Sometimes trees get blown across it. THESE ARE THINGS THAT CAN'T BE AVOIDED. Driving is dangerous, period. But the point is: if you are crazy enough to create a hazard which will likely get you killed and present a potentially dangerous hazard to other people while doing it, WHEN THERE'S FAR BETTER PLACES TO RECREATIONALLY RIDE, then it's YOU who are causing the hazard.

Oh, and I know for a FACT that no one's commuting on bikes. No one's that crazy around here.”

“Lee, thanks again - the LAW is not what's at issue here. COMMON SENSE, MORALITY, and CONSIDERATION FOR YOUR FELLOW MAN are what's at issue here.

Just because you're legally entitled to do something so stupid as to risk your life and the lives of those around you, doesn't mean you SHOULD.”

“Cujo, I'm done. You blast Lee about trying to keep up for his post of MO. law, legally you'd have been wrong. Period. You may know the law, as you claim, but fact is, the law is protecting the cyclists. You can continue to blame the cyclists, feel free, have at it. You're right, everyone defending the cyclists is wrong, the law is wrong, the world is flat, the sky is falling.............”

“I don't think Cujo is friendly to bikers.”

“Wow. You are one angry driver. By any chance are you in a pick up truck with extra wide mirrors.

Most of the angriest drivers my friends and I meet are in pick ups. The wider the mirrors, the worse.

A rider in the next town was killed when struck by a mirror and thrown into a telephone pole.


I'll tell you Cujo . . you must feel like quite big man . .. driving your 3000 lb tin box and threatening skinny bikers on 20 lb bikes. One big man.

I hope you get over it. I hope you don't kill someone's father before you do.”

“trolls are rarely friendly to anyone”

“If you are soooooo familiar with the law, then you clearly know you were in violation of it . . ..why even bother posting.


Keeping up so far F-ckhead?”

“No, Pissedofflaxdude, if I was rude to Lee, it was because I've REPEATEDLY said it's not a matter of bicycling being legal on roads. THIS IS NOT AT ISSUE. And you trying to twist it that way shows me you don't really ahve a counter argument.”