ATTENTION PA HIKERS (and people who hike here)

“i posted about this before, but this is very important. call penn state's forestry school at 814-863-7941 and request a copy of DCNR's recreation survey.

the survey focuses on developed recreation and there is a threat of expansion of ATV and motorized trails. please support low impact recreation, expansion of hiking trails, and expansion of natural and wild areas. thank you.”

“Thanks for the repost JM. We need to keep those zoom zoomers of our trails.”

“Thanks for the headsup on the survey, Jmitch. I was reading in the KTA newsletter that a lot of land was restricted from ATV use recently due to their destructiveness and tendency to ignore private land/no trespassing signs and state restrictions.”

“lyndy,

ATV users have a powerful lobby and are pushing for greater access; one state legislator, Rep. Hanna, really backs them. the destructivenss and disturbance of ATVs really violates the wilderness. how lazy are people that they need a ride into the woods??? please get a survey.”

“I'm calling first thing in the morning.”

“Thanks for the info. I'll do my part.

Nice job, mitch.”

“I called for my survey yesterday. They said it would take about 2 weeks to arrive.”

“thanks richb, i guess they had a lot of requests”

“I thought they were going to send them out to every PA. household, but they told me the only way to get them was to call and make a request.”

“Here's the press release on this issue...

http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/polycomm/pressrel/recreationsurvey1002.htm

(sorry, I don't know how to do the link thingie)


The plan is supposed to incorporate information from nine stakeholders meetings that were held across PA over the last couple of years. KTA has been updating its members on these meetings in the newsletter.

The press release says that the survey is being mailed to 20,000 Pennsylvania residents representing every county. That being so, is there any verification that personally-requested surveys (as per above) will be included in the survey results?

BTW, I encourage anyone who hikes PA to become a member of the Keystone Trails Association ($15/year - includes the KTA newsletter). These people keep abreast of these things and voice our concerns to government officials on a regular basis.”

“I called yesterday for one and the nice lady at the Forestry Dept said due to an overwhelming response for surveys it won't be sent out for almost two weeks (like RichB said).”

“I already got mine already. Thanks for the nudge - I'd better get it completed. The lady who answered the phone was nice.”

“I filled out my survey and will mail it tomorrow. They sent me two of them.”

“I'm not a hiking snob, and I don't mind sharing public land with others, and i don't mind having ATV trail systems, but this house bill goes too far!

A $50,000 appropriation for these trails??? Are there appropriations for backpacking trails, mtn bike trails, horseback trails???? No, those trails are primarily constructed and maintained by VOLUNTEERS.

Mandating 100 miles of ATV trails ANNUALLY is going too far!

Please oppose this proposed legislation.

Text is as follows:





HOUSE BILL
No. 1606 Session of 2003


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INTRODUCED BY HANNA, BAKER, BELFANTI, CAPPELLI, CAUSER,
CREIGHTON, DALEY, FABRIZIO, GEIST, GEORGE, GERGELY, SURRA,
SHANER, HUTCHINSON, SOLOBAY, GODSHALL AND PISTELLA,
JUNE 16, 2003


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

REFERRED TO COMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENTAL RESOURCES AND ENERGY,
JUNE 16, 2003


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

AN ACT

1 Providing for the annual addition of 100 miles of trails by the
2 Department of Conservation and Natural Resources; and making
3 an appropriation.

4 The General Assembly of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania
5 hereby enacts as follows:
6 Section 1. Short title.
7 This act shall be known and may be cited as the All-terrain
8 Vehicle Trail Expansion Act.
9 Section 2. Definitions.
10 The following words and phrases when used in this act shall
11 have the meanings given to them in this section unless the
12 context clearly indicates otherwise:
13 "All-terrain vehicle" or "ATV." A vehicle as defined in 75
14 Pa.C.S. § 7702 (relating to definitions).
15 "Department." The Department of Conservation and Natural
16 Resources of the Commonwealth.
17 Section 3. Trail expansion.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 The department shall annually open a minimum of 100 miles of
2 trails or roads in State forest lands to all-terrain vehicles.
3 The department shall have the discretion to determine whether
4 existing trails or roads should be opened or new trails or roads
5 should be constructed.
6 Section 4. Appropriation.
7 The sum of $50,000 is hereby appropriated to the Department
8 of Conservation and Natural Resources to carry out the
9 provisions of this act.
10 Section 5. Effective date.
11 This act shall take effect in 60 days.”

“damn”

“Wow, that's crappy.”

“thats bull”

“You might want to try this site.


http://www.thepetitionsite.com/create.html

You can create a petition for people to sign.”

“Obviously someone lobbied for this bill, and I know there are ALOT of ATV riders out there. There are many who are lets say "rather upset" because many of their trials are being taken away from them...Rails For Trails is doing a good job at that.

I'm not against them and the activity, but $50,000 a year is a half a million dollars in 10 years, which seems a tad bit steep, imo.

If they don't have a place to ride, you KNOW they'll find a place. So maybe this bill isn't so bad...it may get them off our trails.”

“taxpayers shouldn't fund it though. It's fine to appropriate a portion of public land for such use, but taxpayers shouldn't be compelled to pay for construction and maintenance of a trail system that only a small poriton of the general public uses.

Just like with backpackers - almost all of our trails are volunteer based.”

“btw - Anybody know these people?...
INTRODUCED BY HANNA, BAKER, BELFANTI, CAPPELLI, CAUSER,
CREIGHTON, DALEY, FABRIZIO, GEIST, GEORGE, GERGELY, SURRA,
SHANER, HUTCHINSON, SOLOBAY, GODSHALL AND PISTELLA,
JUNE 16, 2003


And heck, you don't have to pay ATVers to make a trail...they already do it all by themselves.

Anybody remember the thread I posted a few years ago when I told the CVNP, OH Rangers about ATV riders entering a secluded portion of the NP and making trails...and the only thing it led to was me getting in trouble for my geocache???”

“this is a state level issue isn't it - i'm NOT discounting it at all, but at first I thought it was federal level, then I got confused.”

“I think that sucks!!!!


Is there a website where we can speak about it?


8\”

“1. What about having an impact study?

2. Will this expansion continue forever and ever?”

“Backpackers don't have the organization or money that ATV manufactures do.”

“buddur,

mandating 100 miles of trails every year will lead to encroachment and destruction of existing backpacking and hiking trails. ATVs are not entitled to special treatment.

if ATVers want more trails, they can go through the same protocol hikers do: get permission from the state forest, map out a route, negotiate the route with the state forest, and put the time, energy and money to build it themselves.”

“there are alot of ATVers out there, but there are even more backpackers and hikers; unfortunately, we are poorly organized.”

“Two things.

The bill only appropriates $50,000.00 once, not annually.

Second, per the bill, DCNR can designate existing state forest roads as ATV trails. Currently, state forest roads are not open to ATVs, but there are ATV trails in the state forests. Maybe instead of adding trails DCNR will just designate state forest roads as ATV trails - we don't know why the bill was introduced unless we talk to the legislators or (more likely) their aides.

I have to talk to one of Rep. Daley's staff on another matter. When I get a hold of him, I'll ask about this bill.”

“OK, HB1606 was referred to the House Environmental Resources and Energy Committee on June 16, 2003 (as you can read above) and it hasn't moved an inch since then. It hasn't even had First Consideration by the committee yet and it's not being discussed or apparently even thought about any time in the near future.

As it turns out I had reason to talk to the Subcommittee Chairman on Parks and Forests aide also this morning and that bill has been sitting around with no interest for so long that she had to look it up when I asked her about it.

I didn't (and probably won't after all) talk to Daley's aide today, so I won't be able to report on why it was introduced until some other time.”

“Any appropriation will set a bad precedent.

Opening state forest roads to ATVs raises a significant safety concern, since many of these roads are obviously used by cars and trucks, some heavily.

Nor did i feel the legislature should be in the business of mandating trails; is DCNR mandated to build or authorize 100 miles of hiking and mtn bike and horseback trails every year? another poor precedent. those trails are expanded based on interest and volunteer effort that goes into building them, not lobbying legislators to do the work for them.”

“jmitch, all of your points are the reasons that this bill will most likely go nowhere. Like I said, I don't know why it was introduced and whether or not the co-sponsors even expect (or want, for that matter) it to go anywhere. For all I know, a similar bill has been introduced every session for the past 10 years (that's another question I'm planning to ask).

For example, Senator Holl had been in the habit, for at least a couple of sessions, of introducing an agricultural first lien bill at the beginning of the session. It never went anywhere. The people I've talked to (not on his staff - he retired before I got too involved in this stuff) couldn't really tell me why he was so interested in it or if he ever really expected it to go anywhere. Who knows what politics lurks in the heart of bill sponsors and co-sponsors.

I think it's important to be concerned about this, but I'm not worrying about it until I hear from Rep. Wansacz's office that it's even at least being considered to maybe go on the calendar. They're going to let me know if any action is being contemplated (the legislature is busy with budget hearings right now, so I'm not expecting to hear anything for weeks, if at all).”

“50k won't even pay for one staffer. I cringe at the prospect of a special trail section which used to be RR bed (first two miles of Loyalsock Trail down to Haystacks) being opened to those noise makers. Oh, just think of the Coors Lite cans!”

“thanks for the insight.”

“I think if ATVer's want to ride they should pool their money and buy their own land to ride on. I was told that motorcyclists did this in Tower City with 5,000 acres. There's acres of strip mines in PA. that they could buy that nobody would want to hike on. One of the problems is that the state takes their money through registration fees, so then ATVer's want something in return for it, as in more places to ride. The Rails to trails gave them a chance to ride on the RR grade to Simpson, but they terrorized other users to the point that Rails to Trails had to ban them from the area for good. Their use is just too intrusive on other users and to give them the run of a forest would mean a grand plan for maximum impact to the land, maximum disturbance to others users and wildlife. Locally, they are tearing our watershed land to bits and littering it like it's a garbage dump. They build illegal fires, ride up stream beds and run over saplings by bushwhacking into remote areas they are too lazy to walk to. It only takes a few of them to cause destruction and make a crowd. The DCNR is going to have their hands full trying to keep them off the newly aquired section of Lackawanna State Forest. It will be interesting to see what will happen when the DCNR takes over this spring because ATV's have tresspassed on this land for many years. They've torn down all gates and signs around the perimeter of the area.”

“The Bureau of Forestry is reviewing its forestry management plan. They are looking to expand some natural and wild areas; they are also considering natural gas drilling on a limited basis; some increase in ATV trails.

Many hiking trails are located on state forests. If you'd like to make your opinion known as to any trail issues/ concerns, click here:

http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/forestry/sfrmp/comments.aspx”

“Here we go . . . Thanks for the heads up Jeff.”

“Sure will. Thanks.”

“definitely will Jeff, thanks for the heads up!”

“I am told that they are also looking for input in camping guidelines. Y'uns who were run out of Stony Fork, speak up now or forever hold your peace...”

“I just left my comments on that website, thanks Jeff.”

“Thanks everyone for speaking up, it is important.”

“it sucks.”