Is Trent Lott an unreconstructed racist?

“Thanks for those links Viol Man.

Thanks also for the link to Crosstar Forum.. that and some related sites are chilling.

I am definitely tempted to go trolling. Some of them post their pictures. I am so tempted to go on and say something like:

"I see the fruits (and I do mean fruits) of a whole lot of miscegenation here - not one of your faces looks more than 75% white to me."”

“That looks to be a fairly vindictive bunch, Ped. Do you take measures to mask your IP address?

Hey, just because they're out to get you, it doesn't mean you're paranoid... or does it?

<G>”

“Yeah Tilt: that is precisely why I ain't going trolling there: I don't have the software to hide myself.”

“beside that: there is really no positive purpose to it (but a guy can dream, can't he?)”

“I agree with you. The man is a racist if comments like that fall out of his mouth. He votes that way. He needs to clean up his act. He just aired in public what he's been thinking all along.”

“They are a pretty creepy bunch all right. Probably not a great idea to antagonize them, though it would be fun. Barrett held a rally a few years ago near here. It was sparsely attended. A number of groups wanted to stage counter-protests which were almost sure to become violent confrontations. Cooler heads advised people to just ignore him and he was to a large extent. A few people were arrested for blocking the street and fined $250. Barrett said the fine was much too lenient for what he described as ‘terrorists’ or something to that effect. What a load.”

“Call it Karma or whatever you like, but I think behavior like that is its own punishment. It's self-contained, in a way... like "cosmic object oriented programming", <HA>

I see where Don Nickles (R-OK) is now calling for new elections for the Senate Republican leadership (and his name is being mentioned as a replacement for Lott, 'coincidentally'). I'm afraid that guy has quite an opportunist streak. I was watching the national news just when the first reports of the Oklahoma City bombing came in... Nickles was in his office in Oklahoma City at the time and was live on CNN within moments. He had no national name recognition whatsoever before that.”

“Don Rickles has no name recognition? Dude - he must have been on Carson a million times. I think the bacpac troll was based on his brand of humor. Were have you been?”

“What, No steve hiker post? How boring a thread.”

“jeeeeeez, I'm such a hockey puck!”

“I missed Gore's appearance on Saturday Night Live this past weekend where he played Lott on Chris Matthews 'Hardball'. These were a couple of his lines:

Gore (as Lott): "Chris, when I said our country wouldn't have all these problems if Strom Thurmond had been elected president, it had nothing to do with segregation. I simply meant that things would have been better if Thurmond were president because he would have kept white people and black people separate. I just hate it when liberals take me out of context like that."

Gore (as Lott): "If I may, Chris. Too much emphasis has been placed on Senator Thurmond's pro-segregation campaign. There was a lot more to his 1948 platform. He wanted to make it illegal for black people and white people to marry each other. He had great ideas for raising tax revenue, like makin' black people pay to vote. The man is a genius."”

“For all the Lott apologists, click for a copy of the 1948 Mississippi Democratic Party's sample ballot. Is it any clearer now?”

“Gore was GREAT!

He was in every skit.

The "long kiss" at the beginning was nice.”

“Lott, not to be outdone, will be on Black Entertainment Television. I heard he's doing a surprise Al Jolson routine!”

“i rue the day i missed that SNL!! it sounds sooo funny.

and, since i'm too lazy to look it up my own damn self...did Lott say WHY he wished Strom had been elected, or did he just say that he thought things would be better if Strom had been elected? just wondering...”

“I thought the same thing aero. Funny thing is - I wouldn't bet he won't!”

“LOL! I can see it now: "As you know, I fancy myself as quite a singer. Here's one you folks might enjoy! Mammy......"”

“lyra - Lott said, "I want to say this about my state: When Strom Thurmond ran for president, we voted for him. We're proud of it. And if the rest of the country had followed our lead, we wouldn't have had all these problems over all these years, either."

check my link to the 1948 ballot above. The race was all about segregation. He may have well had said "If lynching hadn't been outlawed..."”

“okay, thanks! i get it. i didn't know any of the history about that race, and i can never understand exactly what was said when this is mentioned on the news.”

“Where was the outcry then?

Where was the outcry in 19 hundred and blah when he said "blah blah blah"?

Where was Gore or Daschle or NAACP or Aunt Jemimah or PETA then?

If he is so UNthis or that, why have the good people of Mississippi been so supportive of him over the last half-century or so?


Oh do tell!

Looky, peeps. This is a Democratic witch hunt. Plain and simple. They STILL have no platform; no message. Instead, they can only droolingly watch the Repubs and HOPE for someone to slip-up.

One would think the Dems woulda got the message in November - but NOOOOOooooooo!

God speed, Mr. Lott.”

“Violin, It wouldn't suprise me that all of the southern states had something like that on the ballots in 1948. Times have changed but you can still find towns in the South that think that way. I know of quite a few towns in the South where the Confederate Flag is still flying in parks at schools and at Confederate monuments.

The South has always had a reputation of being racists and will probably always have it but it I bet that most of the blacks in this country still live in the South.

I don't have time but I bet you or someone else could find a census showing what area of this country most blacks live.”

“ooops.

I don't agree with Gojo anymore.


Hey Gojo --

You have lent some good humour to this board . . .but on this you are just plain wrong. Dumbly wrong.


YOu want to know where the NAACP was in 1948, gojo.


The were in the BACK OF THE F-ING BUS!!!!!

THAT'S WHERE THEY WERE YOU F-ING CRACKER F-ING MORON!!!

THEY WERE STILL RUNNING FROM WHITE LYNCH MOBS, THEY WERE STILL SERVING IN SEGREGATED ARMY UNITS, EATING AT SEPERATE RESTAURANTS AND DRINKING FORM SEPARATE WATER FOUNTAINS.

F-ING CRACKER!”

“YOu want to know where the NAACP was in 1948, gojo.

The were in the BACK OF THE F-ING BUS!!!!!
lee
12:39:41 PM
12/16/02

lee, for your information:

The NAACP was Founded in 1909, the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) is the nation’s oldest and largest civil rights organization

So I don't guess they were sitting at the back of the bus”

“Ewker - Mississippi has the highest concentration of blacks in the union. Something like 36%, I've read. Yet, as of 1999, Lott had one staff member (a mail sorter) out of a staff of 65. hmmm...

The 'good people' supporting Lott sure are overwhelmingly white though.”

“Ewker

I am well aware of the longevity of the NAACP.


But it was not until 1955-56 at the time of the Montgomery bus boycott's that Rosa Parks sat in the FRONT of the bus.



So Ewker . . .thanks to the Strom Thurmond's and like minded citizens of the day . . .

the NAACP was most certain still in the back of the F-ing bus.


What F-ing planet are you, gojo and Trent living on????”

“Lee – As much as I appreciate a good rant, I don’t think the name-calling is too helpful. This issue has brought up a whole lot of old wounds that should be re-examined. You spoke about what thoughts must be lurking just under the surface for Lott to let that slip out. It may be (I’m no clairvoyant) that Lott didn’t even think about the platform he was praising because the concerns of a third of his constituency are just plain off his radar screen. Good can become of this mess if our culture and its assumptions can be calmly examined.”

“Violin --

For someone whose TT name derives from the latin root for the word VIOLENCE, you sure talk calmly.


I AM clairvoyant. And Trent Lott a) wears a bad wig; and,
b) is an unreconstructed racist (the question posed in the thread title.



As for Gojo's comments . . . .well . . .. they were just dumb.

Blacks in 1948 did not have equal standing in society. Period. To suggest that they did is ridiculous.


Look . . .I am Far Far Far from being PC (politically correct) . ..FAR from it.

But I try to say and do the right things. Especially around the next generation. And I hope they do better than I have.

I find it disheartening, and discouraging that under a thin veneer of civility, one of our nations leaders is, "an unreconstructed racist".

THere are too many circumstances, too many instances . . .for god's sake, even Strom moved on from 1948 . . .I am not convinced that Trent did.”

“I think history may have moved around him.”

“Soooo...Ummm...what makes a racist unreconstructed?”

“Woah Gojo... the door to your mind done closed wiff a mighty slam!”

“lee,

Are you from the Deep South?
I am.

Do you remember segregated restrooms?
I do.

Do you remember segregated waiting rooms at the docs office?
I do.

Do you remember seperate drinking fountains?
I do.

Did you go to segregated schools?
I did (through 6th grade).

Did you use the "N" word w/o discretion?
I did.

Did your dad say "lock the doors" when the '62 Fairlane bounced across the railroad tracks?
Mine did.

Is your (arguably) favorite student Black?
Mine is.

Is your girlfriend Black?
Two of mine are.

Did you hang out with a Black custodian and pitch horseshoes and drink beers and eat ribs last weekend?
I did.

Is your homeroom sponsoring an indigent Black kid this Christmas?
Mine is.

Are you over segregation?
I am.

Yet, the past is the past is the past. I make no excuses. I do not lie. Trent Lott is a product of the Segregated South - just as I am.

Guess what? On a national basis, the South has done the best job of desegregating. When was the last "race" riot in Atlanta? Montgomery? Yazoo City?

K - how 'bout NY? Cincinnati? LA? Miami? (no, Miami IS NOT a Southern town).
Hmhmmmm.

Sheez! If I were Black, I wouldn't DARE think about driving through ID - LOL!

The most "racist" things I've witnessed in my "modern" life occured in IL and AZ. So there!

"Rebel" flag:
My dad spoke not of the War until three years ago. It was with trembling hands and watery eyes that he spoke of the dreaded Kamakazi attacks. It was with a half smile that he spoke of pulling one of those enemy pilots from the drink, then giving him a burial at sea with full military honors. It's a funny thing - that thin line between terror and respect, love and hate, or Black and White.

I look upon the Battle Flags of the Confederacy with respect. Based on the war stories that my dad has shared (I am not a veteran), I have the utmost respect for ALL combat veterans, especially my 3x grandfather, Zion, and his comrades in the 50th GA Vol Infantry, CSA - as did the Yankees from MI, NY, PA, and others. The regiment marched from GA to VA to PA to VA and back - Grandpa Zion amassed more "bag nights" than TT combined. I display the Flag in my living room, upon the wall. My publicly displayed flag is the Stars and Stripes, which hangs in the window (no, it's not used as a curtain). I'm not asking ANYONE to understand or condone what I feel about the Confederate flag. You either "feel it" or you don't.

NAACP -
Like labor unions, is a thing of the past. Their glory days a bygone.

lee -
Segregation is a new issue with you. You're just now beginning to reconcile with the past. We did it then - when it was ACTUALLY
OCCURING. This subject is SOOOOO sixties!

Anyhoo -
just you go right ahead and jump on that apologist bandwagon. Who knows, it *just might* be pulled by a horse than can catch-up with the times...

God Bless America!
and Trent Lott, too.”

“I was born and raised in Pa., but spent eight years living in Virginia. I have to agree with gojo that there was a lot less racial tension in Virginia than there is here in this corner of the great liberal metropolis.”

“Personally, I don't see Trent as a major idealogue - whether for segregation or any other cause.

One theory about why so many conservative pundits (like Limbaugh)have repudiated him is that Lott is not an idealogue - they see him as too pragmatic.

Lee and others may be right - Lott may be deeply bigoted. What seems more clear to me is that he has a history of catering to extreme bigotry. Like the CCC. Looking at that Crosstar site... it is clear they are angry at Lott because of his apologies - they feel he has betrayed his roots. Ifn ya look.. whether there or elsewhere... its clear what his roots were.

Again, he defended Bob Jones University in its fight to keep the prohibition against race mixing.”

“Trent Lott is finished as Senate Majority Leader whether he realizes it or not. The Republican Party cannot afford to wear that albatross around its neck.”

“I dated a Bob Jones alum... and I'm Catholic. I still love her, and she still loves me. I've seen her as recently as a year ago.

What's the "beef" with BJU?

Oh yeah. No interracial dating. Hmmmm - it's a private school. What? They can't make-up their own rules?

Do I agree with the dating policy? Duh! Look at my previous post - I date Black women. Yet I say "live and let live".

BTW -
I saw the Pope in Columbia, SC (home of Bob Jones U.) in '87. Dude! Those BJU'ers were ALL RILED UP! (You'd thought it was the End Times -LOL!)

God Bless America!
and yer little dog, too!”

“The thing with Lott and BJU... is that he used his time and his credibility to defend the tax exempt status of the University which was threatened because of its discriminatory policies.”

“In an indication of White House wariness about getting squarely behind Lott, sources said Lott sought statements of support last week from national security adviser Condoleezza Rice and Secretary of State Colin L. Powell but was rebuffed. Both are African American. Some White House officials said it was clumsy of Lott to ask.

Administration officials said President Bush would be unlikely to intervene to save Lott's job if another Republican challenged him over comments Lott made at a celebration for Sen. Strom Thurmond (R-S.C.). Some officials said Lott's attempt at another apology on Friday was inadequate, and said his appearance in a special broadcast Monday at 8 p.m. on BET, with its largely African American audience, might provide a final chance at redemption.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A55724-2002Dec14.html”

“you're only kidding.

Supporting the Thurmond campaign at the time is the equivalent of supporting the David Duke Pres campaign.

Lott is a politician, I can't say he's a racist because he lets polls and current company make up his mind. What he said is not a Dem/Rep thing, but it's turning into one.

he has stepped into it, and his President will not support him. It will be interesting to see him play step and fetch on BET tonight... I hope it's not on the same time as MNF..”

“How 'bout this...

There's not an area in the entire state of GA that I would not venture into. Same applies to Blacks.

Every town, every neighborhood, every street. Georgia is perhaps the most SEGREGATED state in the Union.

Okay.
Now, you accusatin' beeyastards! Say the same thing about EVERY other state, city, neighborhood, and street in America.

Michigan first...



Okay, now New Hampshire...



California?





Rhode Island?





Idaho?
(joke!)




Nebraska?



K. Now, whose mind is "slammed shut"?”

“errr.... Gojo... that's an interesting claim - does it have anything to do with Trent Lott?”

“It has to do with the South, tho.

Someone made some false accusations about the South harboring racist stuff. I was simply defending God's Country - the South.


I once believed all those stories about the racist South... until I got out across the rest of the country.

Nope. No racist South. At least no more racist than anywhere else in America. Much less so in most cases...

Geobeet knows where I'm coming from. Geo - I find Phillieites to be nice folks, tho.

The AfAm population is proportionately higher in the Deep South than any other region in the nation. Since desegregation, we've gotten to know each other quite well.

I've learned that not every Black is a bumbling, illiterate, shuck-and-jiver.

Blacks have learned that not every White person is a noose wielding cross burner...

Again,
we "buried the hatchet" years and years ago. Yet the national media still believes that racism is rampant in the South, and makes much effort to perpetuate the misconceptions... IMO.

I am simply spreading the good news:
"Southern racism is dead and buried"

I speak in general terms. Of course racists are still around. They come in a variety of shapes and colors, too. But, generally speaking, we're having a blast down here in Dixie!


Now, where did I put Shalika's phone number...?”

“No doubt about it gojo. There is racism in all the nooks and crannies of the entire country and very likely inside everyone's hearts.”

“I took "Shalika" to a family gathering last summer. It was at a brother's house.

I made the follow statement, publicy:
"Tom, I'll make every effort to keep 'Shalika' out of the watermelon patch - but I can't make no promisses!."

We all LOL'd and LOL'd - even "Shalika" (as I knew she would - for she knows how I am, you see).

Enroute to my brother's, I asked "Shalika" to curb the Ebonics for the day. What did she do? She LOL'd, of course. Yo! What a sport she is!

You see, ped, to know me is to love me...

To know the true South is to love the South.

To know the true, reconstructed, Trent Lott is to love Trent Lott...


...speaking of reconstruction.
"Forced" Reconstruction was implemented in the 1860's. "Forced" desegration was implemented in the 60's. True intergration - which CANNOT be forced - happened gradually, at it's own natural pace. And today we see a harmonious South.

Now,
turn down that street toward Harlem - if you dare...”

“Here's an interesting article about the GOP's pandering to overt bigots from salon. I like the last paragraph a lot.


The ugly truth about Republican racial politics
The GOP needs to do a lot more than rebuke Trent Lott to make up for its legacy of pandering to white bigots and suppressing the black vote.

- - - - - - - - - - -
By Joan Walsh

Dec. 14, 2002 | I almost feel sorry for Trent Lott. Almost.

How could the Senate Majority Leader have known that his words of praise for Strom Thurmond's 1948 segregationist presidential campaign -- "We voted for him. We're proud of it. And if the rest of the country had of followed our lead we wouldn't have had all these problems over all these years" -- could possibly cost him his job? After all, Lott's been saying the same sorts of things for decades now, and on the rare occasion that they even make news, he's always escaped the same way: Insisting he wasn't endorsing racism even as he praised racist institutions, from Thurmond's Dixiecrat Party to Bob Jones University to myriad pro-Confederacy groups the Mississippi right-winger has allied himself with his entire career.

Four years ago, for instance, when Lott's long association with the Council of Conservative Citizens made headlines during President Clinton's impeachment trial, he insisted he had "no firsthand knowledge" of the group's well-known racist views. He got away with it even though his favorite uncle, who sat on the group's executive board, told the New York Times: "Trent is an honorary member. He's spoken at meetings." And even though the group's crackpot racism -- its opposition to interracial marriage, its admiration for French fascist Jean-Marie LePen, its attacks on Martin Luther King and Abraham Lincoln -- was available for the world to see on its Web site, which also featured a political column by none other than Trent Lott.

That time around, though, there was no rebuke from other Republican leaders, no New York Times editorial demanding he step down. The Times' editorialists were too consumed with bashing Clinton, presumably, and in fact most news organizations played the flap in the context of the impeachment battle. (It was Clinton defender Alan Dershowitz
who was responsible for publicizing Lott's association with the Council, along with that of another leading Clinton critic, Rep. Bob Barr of Georgia.) For a while the story played out as a kind of "he said, she said" gotcha game, as though the two men's well-documented racist affiliations were mud being flung at them by desperate Clinton defenders. Unbelievably, Barr and Lott walked away unscathed.

That won't happen this time. Lott may survive as majority leader -- he issued his fourth apology Friday, calling segregation "wrong and immoral," and seems determined to tough it out -- but he'll be forever shadowed by this episode. (And he may be forced to walk the plank if the issue doesn't die.) But while the nation is sitting through its history lesson, however belatedly, let's make clear what this flap is really about. The Republican Party has prospered for almost 40 years by doing exactly what Lott did at Thurmond's 100th birthday party last week: Quietly appeasing its retrograde Southern base with coded symbols of solidarity, while disavowing overt racism for a national audience. Richard Nixon's "Southern strategy" -- rebuild the party by luring whites repelled by the Democrats' pro-civil rights stance -- didn't die with his presidency. And Lott's not the only one using it today.

Although President Bush rebuked the majority leader for his latest remarks and demanded a more convincing apology, Bush has played the game too. He never apologized for his visit to Bob Jones University during the 2000 campaign, despite its long history as a bastion for segregationists, anti-Semites and Catholic-haters, and its ban on interracial dating. And unlike Sen. John McCain, he never apologized for his refusal to criticize pro-Confederate groups that were protesting South Carolina Gov. Jim Hodges' decision to move the Confederate flag from the Statehouse dome. Nor did anyone at the White House complain when Republican candidates in South Carolina and Georgia used the flag issue last month to beat Hodges and Georgia Gov. Roy Barnes. In fact, Bush ally Ralph Reed, the Christian Coalition leader turned Georgia GOP chair, was the force behind the state party's huge success last month, which was widely attributed to an unexpectedly high turnout by white, rural voters, and a dampened turnout among blacks.

And Bush has never disavowed the other key part of the GOP's current Southern strategy: the party's systematic support for efforts to dampen and discourage black voter turnout, mostly but not exclusively in the South. Gone are the days of the poll tax and the literacy test; now the GOP uses "ballot security measures" and voter-fraud crackdowns to keep black turnout low. It was Lott, by the way, who called for the Internal Revenue Service to investigate the NAACP's tax status last year, after its voter education and turnout drives were credited with a massive pro-Democratic black turnout in the 2000 election. And in last month's midterm election, Democrats in dozens of states charged Republicans with using new and old strategies to discourage blacks from going to the polls. Almost 40 years after the Voting Rights Act, the GOP still relies far more than anyone will admit on strategies that pander to white racists and keep blacks away from the polls. "The difference is now they try to do it under the radar," says University of South Carolina history professor Dan Carter, an expert in voting rights history.

What Lott did last week is part of a time-honored GOP ritual: kiss the rings of hateful pro-Confederacy, Southern "traditionalists," and then deny supporting their racist views when challenged. Look at the parade of leaders who've sat down for an interview with Southern Partisan magazine, another bastion of opposition to miscegenation, school integration and the Martin Luther King Jr. holiday. (Its web site is either not working or no longer in existence, so you can't see for yourself.) It's been a rite of Republican passage to talk to Southern Partisan -- Lott, Barr, Attorney General John Ashcroft, former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, former Texas Sen. Phil Gramm -- all have graced its pages. (Even McCain employed an advisor, Richard Quinn, affiliated with the magazine.)

Southern Partisan is where Lott was quoted explaining his feeling that "the spirit of [Confederate president] Jefferson Davis lives in the 1984 Republican platform" and why he opposed a federal holiday for Martin Luther King Jr. The Ashcroft interview was just as bad. "Your magazine also helps set the record straight," he told the editors. "You've got a heritage of doing that, of defending Southern patriots like [Gen. Robert E.] Lee, [Gen. Stonewall] Jackson and [Confederate president Jefferson] Davis. Traditionalists must do more. I've got to do more. We've all got to stand up and speak in this respect, or else we'll be taught that these people were giving their lives, subscribing their sacred fortunes and their honor to some perverted agenda."

But when asked about those remarks during his confirmation hearing, unbelievably Ashcroft denied knowing about the magazine's racist views, and compared it to left-wing Mother Jones -- just another media outlet to which he'd given an interview, despite opposing its underlying philosophy. And unbelievably -- of course Ashcroft was never caught praising Mother Jones for setting the record straight -- he got away with it.

Now Ashcroft is presiding over the other prong of the GOP's Southern strategy, too. His Justice Department just announced a new "Voting Integrity Initiative" to deal with voter fraud, which minority group leaders say will disproportionately hit nonwhites. Although weeding out voter fraud sounds like a bipartisan, good-government priority, The American Prospect
shows how historically it's been used to discourage and intimidate poor and minority voters. Efforts to purge voter registration rolls, for instance, tend to hurt those groups, who move around more; strict proof-of-identity requirements do the same thing. A Justice Department study found African-Americans five times less likely to have photo ID than whites.

There's probably no better example of the way such efforts can hurt blacks than Florida's voter-roll scrub
in 2000, in which faulty information led the state to purge 94,000 eligible voters, most of them black, who were wrongly thought to be felons. But Bush didn't ask his brother Jeb to apologize for that voting-rights debacle -- not even after it came out that the governor dragged his heels on reinstating those legal voters' rights
until after his reelection last month.

GOP forces pursued similar strategies aggressively in the midterm election. Under Ralph Reed, Georgia Republicans sponsored a "fair elections task force" to monitor the polls in November. In Arkansas, Republican poll watchers were accused of intimidating voters in predominantly black precincts by photographing them and demanding identification. In Michigan Republicans stationed "spotters" at black precincts, which Democrats charged meant to intimidate black voters and suppress turnout. In Baltimore, anonymous flyers circulated in black precincts urging voters to turn out Nov. 6 -- a day late -- but to first "make sure you pay your parking tickets, motor vehicle tickets, overdue rent and most important any warrants." Just last weekend, the Louisiana Republican Party paid for political signs in black neighborhoods that read: "Mary, if you don't respect us, don't expect us," an attempt to play on complaints by some African-Americans that Sen. Mary Landrieu hadn't paid enough attention to their issues. It backfired -- blacks turned out, and Landrieu beat her GOP challenger.

But Democrats are part of the reason Republicans get away with this strategy, because too many are ambivalent about the black voters who are crucial to their base. The same weekend African-Americans were saving the party's bacon in Louisiana, keeping Landrieu in the Senate, party leaders were silent on Lott. Or worse than silent: Tom Daschle actually defended him, and it was left to the Congressional Black Caucus to raise a ruckus about Lott's remarks, until other Democrats found their spines. When it comes to race, many Democrats mirror the Republican strategy in reverse: They pander to black voters privately, but try to avoid association with them publicly. Now that Lott has apologized four times, I think it's time for Daschle to come forward and say he's sorry for jumping to his colleague's defense instead of defending his party's most loyal supporters.

Why did the Lott story have legs this time around when it didn't in 1998? Partly it's because the nation was consumed by the impeachment trial four years ago, and could only handle one national political free-for-all at a time. Impeachment was a referendum on sex and politics and whether a public figure is entitled to a private life; we couldn't handle a cataclysm about race and politics at the same time. But I think Lott's dark evasions also resonate more this time because of the nation's sneaky suspicion that there's a gulf between the Bush administration's words and deeds when it comes to race.

At the 2000 Republican Convention in Philadelphia, Karl Rove stage-managed a new, inclusive, multi-hued Republican Party. He did it for the son of the man who employed the great race-baiter Lee Atwater, the former Strom Thurmond campaign manager who gave us Willie Horton, as if to say: This is not his father's GOP. Of course, Rove and Atwater were great friends -- Atwater ran Rove's candidacy for president of the College Republicans -- so there's never been any reason to trust that Rove wouldn't wink at using race the way Atwater did if it worked in his candidate's favor.

Now Rove is said to be behind efforts to topple Lott, believing he'll be a liability to Bush in 2004. As cynical as that is, it's a good sign for American democracy. It means Rove thinks Republicans have more to lose by pandering to white bigots than they gain, that more voters -- women, suburbanites, independents -- will be turned off by Lott's embarrassing racial rhetoric than turned on by it. In a year of bad political news, that's reason for optimism. The GOP will have to do more than dump Lott to eradicate the divisive racial politics he represents, of course, but that they're even talking about it is good news for the nation.”

“Are there streets in ATL I wouldn't travel? Hell yeah! Crack freakin' city! (the street, not ATL). What kinda IDIOT do you think I am? You think I wanna risk robbery, murder, mayhem?

No. There are "hoods" that anybody of any color should NEVER venture into.

That's why, when traveling, I always gas-up outside the cities. In unfamiliar cities, one never knows the distinction between good exits/streets/neighborhoods and not-so-good ones.

I did get the heeby-geebys while driving through Manhatten last year, tho. Especially in Harlem. What can I say? I've heard things about Harlem - which may or may not be true. Still, I'm a LOOONG way from home, and alone. No need to take chances...”

“doesn't Thurmond look like 'Grandpa' from "Texas Chainsaw Massacre"?”

“Ol Strom looks more like the undertaker did a sloppy job!”

“Gojo --

Even though I called you a "cracker" . .. that is because YOU are from the South . . .not because I believe all of the South is bgoted and racist.

You know what . . . I believe that you are mostly right when you argue that the south is more integrated than the North. Demographically, except outside major population centers in the north, you simply have more AFAMs spread over wider areas rather than concentrated in Harlem, (for instance).

I am sure that you know, are friends with, and have taught and/or slept with more blacks than I have . . .that is great.

And you are right . . .integration will come one person at a time, one family at a time, one generation at a time.


I still can't abide by the winking, head bobs and other signals of respect given to separtists organizations. While you may, on an individual level be integrated . . .I can't help but worry about those who are in positions of power, what they condone, and who supports them, and what they support.

While I respect your deep affection for your grandpa x3 Zion . . .and respect that he did what he thought was right . . .and that he was a scared country boy, just like the Kamikaze pilot, and the german solider . . .you know what . . .

the cause he fought for was wrong. I have no more respect for the confederate flag than I do for the Nazi swatika. Jefferson Davis was literally a traitor to his country, as was Lee, Jackson, Longtreet and your Grandpa Zion. ]

Moreover, the agricultural societu they sought to defend, based on slave holdings, was condemned the world over . . .not just by northern industrialists looking to make a buck

Slavery was wrong. And those who fought to support it were wrong.

I do not support the idea that one can remain loyal to the institutions of a divided society (bob Jones, the CCC, the confederate flag) and no be considered a racist.

I believe those organizations and emblems are inherently racist, and those who cling to them are clinging to the last (I hope) vestiges of institutionalized racism.

Its not YOU as individual gojo . . .its you as a "cracker" . .its you representing the institional racism and giving it a pass.”

“Believe it or not, my affection to the Confederate battle flag is not race based. As I stated earlier, I do not expect ANYONE (even other Southerners) to understand the feel I get when I look upon the flag.

Don't get me wrong - I DESPISE the sight of White supremecists waving the flag. Seeing the flag sewn on the back of a biker's jacket is a major faus paux, too. Totally disrespectful, IMO.

(faus paux? what never...)

Here's one for ya:
The Flag never did, does not now, or never ever will represent slavery, bondage, pandamonium, hate, racism, sexism, Marxism, chisolm, m&m's, Eminim, enimas, LGI, LG, XLG, or XXLG to your ol' pal gojo.


You see, I can walk AND (not?) chew gum at the same time. In other words, I can get with the times and expectations, and still hold my ancestors in high regard...
I (we!) have a unique heritage. The War for Southern Independence is a "highlight" of the world's history. Warfare was never the same afterward. Many many innovations evolved from that mere speck in time, ie, repeater rifle, battleship (ironclad), Gattling gun, etc.

In 1865 or so, the Union army was the greatest army in history. Grant coulda whipped Napoleon, Alexander, and Khan simultaneously. That is the primary reason the Confederates had won the "affection" of much of the world, IMO. Here was this ragtag collection of under-fed, under-clothed, and under-armed country boys giving Ol' Grant and Sherman the "what fer".


I have been a casual war buff ever since I realized that my dad served in a war. The Comptons encyclopedias we had when I was growing up are today tattered as a result of a kid thumbing back and forth between WWII, the Civil War, Navy, and various other subjects. I had grafittied many a margin with sketches and notes.

There was a bluff overlooking the lake near my childhood home. Circa 1968 (10 y/o), I built a fortress atop the bluff. I used cement blocks, logs, earth, rocks, etc, to create an impenetrable defense against Yankee attack. I was aware of the superior strength of the Union Navy, so I was sure to build the largest cannon ever. The barrel was a 10"x10' creosote pole.

I would wile away the hours by drilling, drilling, drilling. It was important to keep a sharp mind and body.

Anxiety was rampant! On the one hand, I looked forward to utilizing my training, but on the other hand, I dreaded the probability that we would not survive a full frontal amphibious assault. So I drilled... and waited.

Then it would happen:
Lt. Yoyo, my dog, would shout "attack!" And there, coming from across the lake, was the Yankee armada.

"FIRE!" I'd shout, just before the huge cannon would toss it's projectile with a thunderous "KABOOOOOM!" (this is when I would toss a handful of dirt from behind the cannon. You know - smoke cloud). Then, no sooner than we (my imaginary comrades) commenced giving the Yankees the "what fer", we would suffer a devastating direct hit from the cannon of an iron clad. The tiny fortress would heave down to it's very foundation. Logs, rocks, earth, and body parts would be ripped from their places. Debris and dust and smoke would fill the surrounding air (hands full of dirt and debris tossed upward). AH! The stench of war! Nonetheless, the bedsheet-turned Confederate Battle Flag (thanks to the modern miracle of Magic Markers) would still be flapping in the breeze. Seeing the tattered Stars and Bars flying overhead would be the symbol around which I, Lt. Yoyo, Pvt. Pablo, and the rest of us ragtags, would rally. We were running on pure adrenaline. We fought "with every fiber of our being" - and we won (thanks in part to last minute reinforcements).

After the battle, I would assess the damage. I would search for the dead. I would comfort the injured. None of those fallen were Black, because, like the me of today, it was not about Blacks or slavery. Slavery never ever entered my mind. I was innocent that way...


Dear reader,
I do not expect you to look at the flag with my eyes, nor feel what I do when that occurs. No one, nowhere, ever! will rob me of my childhood memories, nor my adult beliefs. I owe that much to the legacy of those buried from here to Gettysburg to Vicksburg to Andersonville.

Again. My display of the Confederate flag is private. I do not have a flag bumpersticker or belt buckle - that would be an insult to others. I do, however, publicly display the Flag of the United States of America - in both my living room window and truck window.

A modern Confederate States of America? I don't EVEN want to think about that. Not a day goes by that I don't thank God to be an American.


God Bless America!
(Yankees, Blacks, m&m's, and all!)”