"Dubya" goes one step too far.

“We really don't get much oil from the middle east.”

“Not yet.....we don't own it yet”

“The proof is there. How they use the proof is going to be the question. Remember oil for food is a win win situation.”

“More Conservation, less conversation....”

“The WMD is a red herring, so to speak, imo. North Korea and Pakistan represent much greater threats in this respect than Sadam. And this is not to say the threat is non-existant - just not as urgent as Bush would like us to think. I look at this issue as the major means of justifying this war in public.

China, oil, and influence in the ME are the reasons to go to war with Iraq - not WMD.”

“-Ever stop to think that the WMD might just be because THEY are afraid of some BIG agressive country?”

“One thought about the North Korean nuke thing. We (the U.S.)are enriching uranium for weapons grade material too. This is like some sort of double standard, we can do it, they can't.”

“But THEY are part of the "Axis Of Evil" ......flying monkeys and everything!”

“Honestly someone else could cover this issue much more clearly but guess what tahoe we also continue to developing chemical/biological weapons and other cool defense systems. Sorry, you’re comparing oranges to apples as far as ethical global character and human rights go.”

“Yeah because our death penalty is much more humane and everyone in the world LOVES the US.”

“Here's an article which shows how Bush focuses on Iraq while AQ roams free elsewhere.

From the Voice of America:

http://www.voanews.com/article.cfm?objectid=27658D62-73BB-4F27-BD80029777748148& title=Pentagon%3A%20%20W%2E%20Africa%20Vulnerable%
20to%20Terror%20Attacks&db=current

Pentagon: W. Africa Vulnerable to Terror Attacks
Alex Belida
Pentagon
14 Nov 2002, 16:19 UTC



Hundreds of American troops have been sent to the Horn of Africa for possible anti-terrorist operations. But the Pentagon views West Africa, where there have been no U.S. deployments, as more vulnerable to terrorist penetration.
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But the official says the Horn countries are not as vulnerable as those in the Sahel region, which the Pentagon intends to work with closely on security issues.
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The senior official tells VOA the Sahel problem is viewed as much more serious because there is, in the official's view, an almost total lack of capability to deal with frontier security threats.

The official says "you cannot look at the Sahel region and not be concerned."

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But defense officials are all but ruling out military deployments in West Africa like those in the Horn, soon to number more than 1,000 U.S. personnel with nearly 2,000 more offshore.

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In West Africa, intelligence sources have recently identified an arms-smuggling group operating between Algeria, Mali, and Mauritania, with suspected links to al-Qaida. U.S. Officials are also concerned the presence of terrorist groups in Algeria, Libya, and Sudan could pose a threat to countries like Chad, Mali, Mauritania and Niger.


**********************

Here's an area of the world where the U.S. has little intelligence, the countries are sparsely populated and Muslim, and the U.S. has no plans to send force into the region - even though there's AQ activity in the region.”

“trailhound57, not disputing your post, but they (N. Korea) beleives they are the ones doing the right thing. And really, all they are doing is trying to bring up their defense posture to match that of any other country.
Is it bad for the world that they are trying to make nukes? Probably, it seems to me that they may be more likely to use them preemptively. Is it something we can put a stop to? No. they have the right to defend themselves, just like we do. I just hope they don't shoot one at ME!!”

“Hey good point. I'm not about to say your wrong. As you have expressed it’s a very delicate and complicated issue. Any gov't #1 responsibility is protection its citizens by what ever the means. Because of our (lets be honest) power we have been in a position to protect ourselves by both diplomatic and militaristic means. However, there is concern when a small group or country has either nothing to lose or a culture that values human life. And that's about as clear as mud. Sorry, maybe I'm not the one to talk about this.”

“That should say ...to lose or a culture that doesn't value life.”

“If you're saying that about Iraq, I think you're wrong. One dictator does not a people or culture make. I don't think they're a desperate nation at all.”

“Bush is just warning Iraq, that they must comply or its over”

“N. Korea is the type of country that would threated to bomb Japan if they did not receive funds. They would/will blackmail the world.

There's a though out there that you have to have nukes in order to be taken seriously. I think that the Pakis and India will have the first nuke war, though.”

“Bush Vows War
To Save Iraqi Pets

WASHINGTON, February 16, 2003--The long-awaited invasion of Iraq moved closer today with the revelation that Saddam is holding hostage thousands of household pets belonging to the Evil One's top weapons experts.

The experts themselves, along with their extended families and especially close friends, defected early this month to the United States, where they entered the witness protection program. Even under intense debriefing in undisclosed locations, however, all denied that Iraq possessed Weapons of Mass Destruction.




Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld called their denials "incontrovertible proof that Saddam is lying through these poor guys' teeth."

Weapons of Mass Destruction must exist in Iraq, Rumsfeld explained, because top U.S. officials just know they do. Among these officials are Rumsfeld deputy Paul Wolfowitz, White House spokeperson Ari Fleischer, and the president himself. None of them has ever told a lie.

"Here we've got hundreds of Iraqi weapons experts parroting the same ridiculous story even after they're safe in the free world," Rumsfeld said. "Plainly Saddam still has their collective asses hammered into some kind of collective crack."



White House spokesperson Fleischer credited the President himself with figuring out exactly what that "crack" was:

"The president was feeding Spot last night, which is incidentally a really, really cute thing to watch," Fleischer said. (Spot, an English Springer Spaniel, is one of two Bush family dogs. The other is Barney, a black Scottie.) "The president holds a pretzel out on his tongue and that little rascal Spot licks it right off. Usually.

"Just then it suddenly occurred to the president, and don't think there aren't plenty of red faces over at Langley because they totally missed it, that if the president of the United States loves his Spot, why shouldn't an Iraqi weapons expert love his Ramadan or whatever they call dogs in Moslem."

The president promptly assembled his foreign policy team and exclamated to it, "What the hell, guys and gal, Ayrabs are human people, too. People beings just like us, or sort of, anyway. More or less at least, maybe lesser. They're not going to mess with a guy that's got his hands on Fluffy and Rover, any more than you would or me too."



At the president's direction United States ambassador to the United Nations John D. Negroponte yesterday delivered to the Security Council a demand that Saddam Hussein immediately turn over to U.N. weapons inspectors all pets belonging to the defectors.

Asked at today's Pentagon briefing whether Saddam could possibly ensure that no pet was left behind, Defense Secretary Rumsfeld said, "Who cares, they're only animals. Look, the important thing here is that first we say we've got a list of every single pet only we won't show it to him, okay?

"Then when he coughs up the stupid pets, we say he's holding out on us. At that point we have no option but to invade the lying prick and next thing you know Thomas Jefferson is president of the United States of Iraq and pretty soon everybody turns into Mormons and Lutherans and #&%!$. Plus they're free."

Secretary Rumsfeld went on to announce plans to deploy the First Air Cavalry Division in defensive positions around Mecca, a city in Saudi Arabia where there is a big black rock called the Cupola.



source”

“bush should have said....if ya'll use WMD's, we're gonna drop daiseys on your desert and play doris day music and have a biiiiiiiiiig group hug.”

“We only seem to pick on country's like Afghanistan, Iraq, Granada and Somalia, you know little country's. North Korea is just a tad too big for us.

I have nothing but respect and admeration for our men and women in the Armed Forces, its the Chicken Hawk leaders I have a problem with.”

“Because a leader/dictator is crazy, we consider killing millions of innocent civilians to fight back....somehow that doesn't seem like the moral thing to do.”

“Why not just buy Iraq.It would cost less than a war.Sadam could move to a ranch in Tejas.Dubja could move into that cool palace with the mosiac of his dad on the floor.”

“Millions of innocent victims. LOL man, you just get funnier and funnier all the time.

What will you claim next, that our dropping Daisy Cutters in Afganistan has endangered our environment by knocking Planet Earth a few degrees off kilter?”

“yea, your right, it's not like they are real people, hell they're not even Christian...and it would only really be 60/80,000.”

“show me one credible source that shows that many deaths at the hands of the US military”

“Bush has said we can use the option of nuclear weapons in the event of WMD being use on us, apparently his interpretation of WMD includes chemical or biological attacks.

Soooooooo, lets just say someone unleashes small pox, takes out a couple thousand of us and makes it seem like it came from, oh, lets say Iraq...we reserve the right to nuke em.....now if I was a bad guy and I wanted to turn this into a real Holy War, I would try something like that, or maybe make it look like it came from Somalia, you know another one of those little countrys....

I could be wrong on this but he may have even said we have the right for a first strike with nukes, it's hard to keep up with what keeps leaking out of this administration and who said it.

Try and keep up will ya.”

“You all better start taking Chinese (Mandarin dialect) language courses. :o)”

“Chinese.....paper tiger....or maybe cheap plastic tiger


If the U.S. stopped importing their products they would collapse.”

“dubya is digging a bottomless pit for the USA”

“Tom, I think you're looking at the China problem through rose-colored glasses. What you're saying regarding the U.S. boycotting Chinese goods might have stood a better chance of working back in the early '90's, but it's an unrealistic option now, particularly as our economies are so interdependent and that China is a WTO member. China can and is expanding its market base around the world - look at South America and Africa for example. One of their biggest economic hurdles at the present is supplementing direct foreign investment with a more sustainable source - i.e. domestic investment. There's no reason to think the burgeoning capitalist element of the economy won't step up to the task.

Corruption, however, is a serious hurdle to economic development. There's little I can see the U.S. doing to influence that, though.

There's really only one thing the U.S. can do to hobble China right now - control the world's oil supply. Don't forget that last June, the State Department sanctioned several Chicom state companies for supplying the raw materials for WMD to Iraq and Iran in a bid to strengthen relations and as a deterrent to U.S. military intervention in the region. If the U.S. were to successfully overthrow Sadam and install a pro-U.S. regime, then we'd have serious influence over the amount of oil exported to China. Another area the U.S. is trying to play catch-up is in Africa. For the past decade, China has courted oil-exporting countries quite successfully. If the U.S. beats them at their own game, then China is left with drastically fewer areas of the world in which to seek dominance over energy resources.

Oil is the game to play with China.”

“mtnsteve, I am trying to follow your logic. You say if someone kills a couple thousand of us then Bush will launch an all out nuclear war and kill millions (or just 100,000). If a massive attack ever hits the US it could be possible to kill a damn sight more than a couple thousand people, but for the moment lets assume your low US death count is accurate. Have you ever heard the term measured response? No American President would ever use a Nuke to retaliate for the death of just a few thousand. Afganistan is not a nuclear wastepit, Korea is not, nor is Vietnam. I hope that we never use a nuclear weapon in war, I would rather we mobilized the US and drafted people like you and me to go in on foot and sweep our enemies from power. But if any country ever uses a nuke on us, then I will fully support our President responding in kind.

And on your silly assertion that some bad guy could trick us into triggering a Holy War, well, isn't that the same crap you were saying when we went into Afganistan. I don't see any Holy war taking shape.”

“The Empire Strikes Back, huh?”

“I haven't kept up with all of this like I should but it does keep changing daily.

Yesterday morning I heard on a radio talk show a clip of Bush talking about Saddam Hussein. Bush said and I hope i get this right

"Saddam tried to kill my dad so why wouldn't I what to get him".

Has anyone else heard that statement.

Does anyone think he has made this personal because his Dad didn't have the guts to get rid of Saddam back during the Gulf War.

Don't come back and say well his hands were tied by the UN or that imaginary line we couldn't cross. If we go into Iraq now we will go across that line and the UN will get mad, so what! It should have been done yrs ago.”

“"Tried to kill my dad"

That "incedent" was probably just another one of Big Daddy Bush's lies.”

“Where did you get the idea I said some crap about us getting into Afghanistan, I was in favor of that...you really shouldn't put words into peoples mouths like that.

I understand the term Measured Response...I just don't trust this President....and rule #1 should be, never underestimate your enemy, we allready did that once, I hope and pray we don't do it again.”

“That is not the first time he has made that remark about his father. I have heard it on several occasions.”

“"well, isn't that the same crap you were saying when we went into Afganistan"

--'hyway'


Just wondering... what was your screen name then?”

“I meant it rhetorically.

I first visited this site this year. And that was just to get backpacking infor for my first hike. I only signed up after Buddha Bears panty raid on "the other site" a month or so ago.”

“tilt, your not allowed to ask that question cuz nobodies ever seen a picture of you so your not a real person you are a troll and your probably violin since i notice that you and he never post at the exact same instant.”

“I should have said "people were saying" when we went into afganistan. I should not have assumed you said that. its is the same argument though.”

“Ewker –

Kuwaiti authorities apparently foiled a plot to blow up an explosive laden vehicle during Bush I’s trip there in 1993. The FBI and CIA said the composition of the plastic explosives was a little different than other unexploded Iraqi bombs they analyzed but everything else about it suggested the same maker. It was kind of a week link, but strong enough to get Clinton to order the launch of 23 cruise missiles into Iraqi intelligence offices in Baghdad. One of the convicted conspirators said that he participated in the plot because he had lost 16 members of his family during the Gulf War.


If you want to learn more about the personalizing of this conflict, try this article from http://www.counterpunch.org/nimmo0919.html" target="_blank">CounterPunch.”

“Just imagine the revenge people would want if we did actually detonate a nuclear bomb over there!

In my view however, deterrence is perhaps the only morally defensible reasons to posses nuclear weapons.


Strat – I am not Tilt but can you prove you aren’t Ice Tea’s troll? I notice a few similarities in your posts.”

“Shu'up dewdfarts.

LOL”

“ok, so your not tilt but is tilt you? huh? can you proove that? ice tea seems to be reasonable like me i agree, but i have never met him, and i have a picture on phils page and that prooves i'm a real person. so there.

i liked your last post btw. you seems to be thinking more reasonably lately. it's kinnda weirding me out, actually.”

“that's pretty fast vio-tilt. an easy trtick for a hacker like you though. and quit stealin stickmon's pet-name for me!”

“Talk about weirding somewhat out! When I start to make sense to you I know something is wrong! Lol. You don’t really think I really believe everything I post, do you?”

“Yes, hyway, I thought you were still fairly new. Could still be a identity-switcher... one never knows, <G>.

I would disagree that what you employed was a rhetorical device --- it was more of a gross generalization: shorthand for 'all you people' (whomever you think 'those people' are and what they may think or say on any given subject).”

“Violin: Just imagine the revenge people would want if we did actually detonate a nuclear bomb over there!

What a racist statement! You're saying all the people over there are radical islamists bent on the destruction of all Infidels, and that they speak and act as one.

There's your quid pro quo, Violin.”

“Yes, Dewd, you sent a phot to Phil. That proves.... that you sent a photo to Phil, LOL”

““In my view however, deterrence is perhaps the only morally defensible reasons to posses nuclear weapons.”

Good point and that is the primary incentive behind Bush's statement.

What amazes me is the revenge people want just because we feed a large percentage of the world. The issue still boils down the the haves and have-nots.”