Whats Wrong w/ our government?

“Our insurance companies charge us a rediculous amount for health insurance then after you meet your deductables the STILL make you pay 20% of your bills any way!

Im just screwd with this back. Im thinking of trying to get a dual citizenship to live in Canada.(i dont know if it will work) but I need health insurance, well I have it but I need better insurance or free like in canada!!

Owell!!”

“oh #&%!$, here comes all the "lawyer bashing"....”

“Get used to it they say by next year its going to go up another 30%.

So unless the place that you work for pays for all of yours you might be in a big pinch come next year.

It just sucks all the way around.Where I work there are only 45 people that work there.So other places that have over 100 people or places like the steel mills they pay 50% less then we do becuase of how many people are under the plan.

8|”

“I've done mucho research on this subject Prowler. I have to negotiate the HC plans in my clients contracts, in short, it's a huge mess.

Many drug companies are making around 18% profit margin, while most businesses survive on 5-7%. Check out all of those TV ads for drugs, WTF, are they advertising to doctors?

We have had many "consultants" discuss insurance plans with my various bargaining units. I've asked each and every one of them; "Why are insurance costs going up 30-50% as they claim?" I haven't received a straight answer yet. Basically, it's all unregulated, and the insurnace companies are driving everything.

The system is a joke, and our government isn't doing much to help. In Ohio, they are trying to get a bill on the floor to develop a state consortuim to negotiate perscription drugs prices directly with the drug companies, much like Canada does now. This will help folks who have no or little insurance, and old folks like my grandparents. I'm sure it will be on the floor soon, and hopefully the morons will pass it.”

“Got a brother-in-law that because of his extended military service no longer qualified for his companies insurance. He said he prays that nothing unfortunate happens to him or his family in the meantime because the current military/public health insurance is terrible. There is only a couple of doctor in his area that he can see, they both over book their appointments, nothing substantial can be done without visiting a specialist, and just to see the doctor has already more than once become a multi day affair.”

“Im thinking of trying to get a dual citizenship to live in Canada

Sorry, Canada's healthcare system doesn't work.”

“"well I have it but I need better insurance or free like in canada!!"

Just remember nothing is ever "free". If you're not paying for it, someone else most likely is.”

“We pay triple, in many cases, what Canadians do for perscription drugs.”

“Buddha Bear is right. Many Americans who are fortunate enough to live near the Canadian border cross over and get their prescriptions filled up there for less.

I agree to the notion that America's healthcare system is really messed up and unfair. I, personally, would favor universal healthcare coverage just like other democratic nations have.”

“I don't have the details...but Canada's health system is going to the toilet also. We might have "free" services....but the wait is so loooong. Doctors and nurses are leaving for the U.S. to work. We used to be a number 1 country (4 or 5 years in a row) to live in....not anymore....the politicians f_cked it up royally.”

“their healthcare system stinks. long waits for medical procedures...”

“yeah, stanley, we in the U.S. hope the canadians don't fix their system, otherwise we'll face an even greater shortage of nurses”

“I wouldn't mind a long wait, unless I was on my deathbed, if it meant I wouldn't have to sell my house to pay for it! :-P”

“The best system would prolly be a hybred of both, with heavy Gov't regulation.”

“I really don't know if universal health care coverage would work in the U.S. This country is not "just like" other countries that have universal coverage. The Clintons tried to put this huge sea change into effect and it got shot down. A lot of things would have to change, and these changes would have to be accepted by the public, medical professions and legal professions, before it would work. We've all groused about lawyers and dishonest lawsuits against hospitals and doctors, and yet I'll bet that everyone here knows of an incident involving a doctor or hospital where there was gross negligence. I think that it would be very complex to put together a universal health system that most people would be happy with. It is a utopian idea, but could we pull it off with quality?”

“I think we could, LyndyS.. it's just the rich that would have us think otherwise. You know, so they can stay rich.”

“santartex, if market forces were allowed to operate freely in the healthcare arena, things would improve.

Why do you suppose the prices in America are so exorbitant?

Answer: to subsidize the elements of socialized medicine that exist here (Medicare and Medicaid). America does NOT have a free market in medicine; it is a very badly corrupted market. It is more accurately described as socialized medicine, privately administered, which still allows people to opt out. (You were able to opt out in Canada once, I still remember when that was outlawed in Ontario).”

“Can ANYONE give an example of a case where government running anything was succesful and effecient?

Rick”

“Yeah, and while we're at it, I need a way to get to the doctor's office, so the government should provide me with a free car. Of course, this car needs gas, so I say free gas for everyone. Oh yeah, and free auto insurance so that I can legally drive. Also, if I don't eat, I get sick, so I should have the right to free food and a house so that I won't have to sit outside in the cold and rain. Oh yeah, and free clothes. Did I miss anything?”

“There's talk of a 2 tier system up here. Private and public system working in unision...the doctors will have to work their 40 hours in the public system, and then they can go to the private side and charge huge fees from clients who cannot wait...a chunk of that money would go back to the public side...ie to pay for the use of hospital equipment, room and services etc. That way the lineups would be shorter and more money to go around.”

“I just happened to have recently looked up some stats regarding Canada's healthcare system. Every year Canada's Fraser Institute compiles a report that shows average waiting times for patients in Canada's health system. The results for this year?
(from: http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/shared/readmore.asp?sNav=pb&id=413)

Median waiting time for radiation treatment for breast cancer in province of Ontario: 8 weeks

Median waiting time for angioplasty in the province of British Columbia: 12 weeks

Median waiting time for radiation treatment for prostate cancer in province of Quebec: 12 weeks

Median waiting time for cataract removal in the province of Ontario: 20 weeks.

Median waiting time for cataract removal in the province of Saskatchewan: 52 weeks.

Median waiting time for a tonsillectomy in the province of Saskatchewan: 80 weeks.

Further, the report shows "the total number of procedures for which people [in Canada] are waiting was 1,094,420 in 2001-2002, an increase of 15% from the estimated 953,420 procedures in 2000-2001."

Clearly, something is awfully wrong here. A wait for an angioplasty in BC is that much more time a person is in extreme pain and unable to work...three months time, to be precise. As David Frum points out, "'Single payer' is an inaptly named system. In Canada, everybody pays for healthcare – the patient pays in pain, the employer pays in lost worker hours – but only the government’s costs are counted."”

“Artex, it isn't as simple as "well we'll just make the rich pay more". The middle class is huge compared to the rich class. They are the ones that will pay, and pay big time. When they do, then everything economic spirals down, because the middle class buys things, buys services, donates to a bewildering array of local causes, pays for education of most everyone who isn't in private school, on and on. What you propose for health care just isn't very simple. It would have a huge impact on everyone.”

“I had to drop therapy early because of a high co-pay that was eating up my budget. I still have a flock of unpaid medical bills and will into next year. The co-pay for ER visits are $75 unless I am admitted. And yes, it will go up even more.

At some point juries have to start understanding that somebody pays these exhorbitant awards, and it's not the doctor, or his insurance carrier, but you and me.

People sue over the damnedest things too. Probably half the awardees should never have been allowed to sue in the first place. It's gone way beyond pathetic.

At the same time, the insurance companies are removing drugs from their lists of covered drugs. That leaves doctors and patients to choose alternatives.

Here in the Philly region, specialists are closing practices, our regional trauma center is closing in a little more than a week, and this will mean longer waits for treatment or doctor visits.

And yes Chili, the Trial Lawyers Assn. is the biggest opponent of medical malpractice insurance reform here in Pennsylvania. Gov-elect Rendell put together a commission to study the issue and make recommendations. My bone doc said, "It's dominated by lawyers. That is like having a problem in the judicial system and asking doctors to fix it."

What is about to happen is that socialized medicine will ultimately look a lot better than the mess we're painting ourselves into. I for one am on the verge of becoming a ward of the state and applying for VA medical benefits. That is not my choice, but I am running out of other choices.”

“nm”

“What is about to happen is that socialized medicine will ultimately look a lot better

No, I don't think it will. Free market healthcare will. If you, the patient, pay for everything all the time, then the market operates effectively since your interests are completely congruent with low prices. If ANY part of the overall marketplace becomes disconnected with market pricing (Medicare in the 1960s started this IIRC), then the recipient of the service is no longer the direct payer, and the market drive to keep prices down becomes decoupled. Socialized elements of healthcare is how we got ourselves into this mess.”

“LyndyS, what I meant was the biggest obstacle to universal healthcare are the ones that are rich because of the current system. I'll get slammed for saying that and be accused of being a socialist.. but in my line of work I've seen enough to question things.”

“Regulated privatization is the way to go, as long as the monkeys in Washington don't try to pass a slew of laws to smother the regulation system, like they did with the EPA.”

“Oh - and GET THE FRIGGIN' LAWYERS OUT OF THE PICTURE.”

“It's all the d@mn unions that have this thing screwed up...

I mean the guy who hauls off the trash from you hospital room probably makes more than I do.”

“Artex, I agree with you that anyone who gets rich off of someone else's trauma is a big part of the problem, no matter what role they play in the health care mess.”

“Lyndy, it's more the corporate side of things. I'll tell you more the next time we hike together, can't do it over the board. :-)”

“But think about universal healthcare. If the government has to pay for all healthcare, just think about the restrictions that will be proposed and seriously discussed. They will start hitting people for surcharges, like if a family has more than two children, or if a person has more than one car accident and is at fault, in a year, or if a sports enthusiast falls off a cliff or over some rocks, etc. every couple of years. There will be limits all over the place, being discussed. Because the root of it is that, the government is taking away my money and giving it to someone else. Everyone's impression of what is fair is going to be different. It already is like that in NJ where school property taxes are out of this world. People see a family with six kids and think, hey they aren't paying their fair share of the school expenses.”

“I'd like to hear the details on the next hike, Artex. And as another note, my family has to pay the employer 50% more in 2003 for health coverage, than we did in 2002. That doesn't include deductibles, prescription copays and the 20% of visits after deductible. Lucky for us, we are all fairly healthy now, with no ongoing prescription expenses. And the soy diet is very inexpensive. :-D”

“Well to rub salt into the wound the malpractice crisis is upon us. Doctors closing and moving elsewhere, others not taking new patients, refusing high risk patients and refusing to do some procedures etc. It's a real mess and particularly bad here.
Having dealt with our health care system for the last few years, I can say if you really get a serious long term illness and you don't feel sick right away you will feel sick once you get mired into the health care mess. Trying to deal with referrals really sucks when your so sick you can barely even talk on the phone to get one. I had bills and statements mailed to me almost 2 years after treatment. We need plenty of changes for sure.”

“well said richB. The refusing patients part is the most disturbing - it just shows you how cpaitalism has overcome healing in our Health Care System.”

“Amen, Buddha Bear and Richb.”

“What bothers me the most is that it seems that nothing is being accomplished to improve this mess and it appears to be getting worse. A group of doctors rallied recently where the govenor was giving speech in town and rather than come out and talk to them, he walked out the back door and drove away.”

“RichB, nothing is being accomplished because nothing is regulated. Free market WILL NOT WORK in the healthcare industry. Now I wish I would have discussed this with you more at AFT, instead of Lil' Rascals Conspiracies.”

“When we go back to complete the AFT we'll have the healthcare discussion.
One thing that really helped me was finding one person in the Blue cross office to help me work through all the red tape. Instead of dealing with different customer service reps, I always talked to the same one and she became familar with everything in my case. She really helped me out and without her it would have been much worse.
I just read Mutt's list of the wait times in Canada for treatment. It would be frightning having to wait 8 to 12 weeks for cancer treatment and I'm sure if that's true that people are dying up there because of it.”

“Buddha Bear-Santartex

You can actually purchase prescription drugs from Canada for a whole lot less now, legally!

My mother can not get Medicade nor Insurance from any one because of her diabetes. But atleast she can order ONLINE prescriptions dirt cheap!”

“Prowler - Thank Gwad, finally!

RichB- Nothing is being accomplished because you have the following involoved in this mess:
* Health Care Industry Lobbyists
* Insurance Industry Lobbyists
* Lawyers
* Drug Company Lobbyists


Common Joe Lobbyists - Ahhhhh, we haven't purchased one yet.

The morons listen more to the lobbyists than they do us, it's a fact, and we have no $ to compete with all of these lobbyiest's, because our concerns are for the common good.”

“I guess we Americans (pissing on Canadians j/k) have NOTHING to look foward to then! GREAT!”

“Not until we elect people with convictions, Prowler, and that will never happen with the current system.”

“#1 contributing group to the democratic party; trail lawyers.
the unions aren't far behind.



medicare waste and fraud is a clusterfhuckerous problem too. lots of good points on here but womb to da tomb coverage aint the answer. you wouldn't be able to live with the restrictions involved not to mention the chrushing of your civil rights. we're talking about 1/7 of the american economy here. when the government does something for you, it's on their terms. they would have to assign you doctors, for example. none of us could live with that. it's really not government's job anyway. it is by nature inefficient and slow and wasteful and that's not what you want in health care.
the reason we have great doctors here in this country is because they can make money here. i want the best doctors. there would be less incentive for them to specialize and do research and developement.



i would like to get this #^@%%#$ pothole in front of my house fixed though!”

“Lots of good points here...

Just one gaping hole. Our personal responsibilty to our own health. The 2 biggest killers in the US are Heart Disease and smoking related illnesses. These are preventable. With 40% or so of american adults being obese,I wonder if people really care (btw I still smoke, go figure). We all want someone to pay for our poor choices. I am NOT talking about accidents and unavoidable situations but hundreds of millions into aids research? C'mon wear a condom and dont shoot heroin, jeeze how hard is that to remember??? dont smoke, excercise and eat well. Its free. Its up to you.”

“exactly correct birch”

“interesting links...

diabetes

obesity

smoking”

“..having to wait 8 to 12 weeks for cancer treatment and I'm sure if that's true that people are dying up there because of it." -richb

Alot of people are dying up here.

Some rich folks go down to the U.S for their medical problems.”

“Stratdewd, you make a good point.

Birch, VERY true. And America's obesity problem is only getting worse, and it'll come out of all of our pockets. What's sad is the definition of somebody being "fat" is changing; a person who was considered fat 10 or 20 years ago probably wouldn't be considered fat today. It's becoming more socially acceptable to be overweight, but physiologically it hasn't.

Smoking is also a huge problem, but I think our society has taken huge steps in the right direction, though we still have a long way to go. Jeez, I can't believe they used to have smoking sections on airplanes! GAG!!!!!!!!!! :-)”

“what ISNT wrong”