TC 3 IDEAS?????????

“Just thought a thread should be started to try to gather some thoughts on future TCs.

1. It's always good to discuss what was good, what was bad and what might be done better immediately after an event, while it's still fresh in everyone's mind. Constructive criticism.

2. Depending on where the organizers want to go with the event (become really big? keep it a more intimate event?), they can get feelings from your average TT'er on what he or she hopes to see happen.

---For me, I'd like it in October. Some time other than December (or even November... and don't go moving it to Jan., Feb., or... even probably even March either! lol)

Sounds like others have expressed an interest in this direction. But do a LOT of people want it earlier?? If so, post here and post in droves!!

---Guess I also would like to see it moved around, giving people in different parts of the country a ready and easy opportunity to attend. Course, that's just me; I have a hard time getting anywhere out of the upper Midwest without a major commitment of time and money (two PT jobs... NO VACAY PAY for me).

I am thinking of a local guy who started this event called "Kids Philosophy Slam" in Lanesboro, MN. He got a Minneapolis PR firm to do a great job getting the word out on it across the U.S. and even foreign countries. Had coverage on "Today" show of the winner.

Sure, he has a different motivation (wanting it to become BIG and have all the more publicity)... but he is taking it on the road. Moving the location of the finals, although perhaps returning to Lanesboro with it every 4 years or so.

Just an idea.

POST HERE, FOLKS.”

“As far as the location, I suggested Red River Gorge (Kentucky) for next year but Towndawg want's to keep it in Tennessee.”

“Yes, I can see where the main organizers would like to keep it close to where they are... just for practical reasons, if nothing else. Maybe TownDawg would license the name for regional spin-offs? "TC Northwest"... "TC South Pacific" (Heeeeeey... how about New Zealand in 2005? <G>)

I do think earlier in the Fall might be better. I don't mind the cold so much, but the Christmas Craziness had already begun and caused conflicts.”

“I will say that it was a good thing that TC2 was not at Cheriot Creek as origionally planned. The Gravel road going back to the Trail Head was a 5 mile sheet of ice. Some people may have had trouble making it back there saftly.”

“It looked like you guys dodged a bullet with the weather --- ice and snow just before and just after (?)”

“I actually don't care when it is, as long as it is going to happen (tc3 I mean). I would be plesantly surprised if we could move it to october or november because it is not as cold (still hate the cold and I had hell getting comfortable in my lousy tent. after about 3 bags I felt at least a little comfortable.

ideas: maybe we can get the tc3 on a holiday weekend, so some of us can stay a little longer.

how about a couple tables where you can trade your gear?

I thought the amount of people was perfect, next year will probably get much more publicity, thus more people will show up.

idea: IF we have more days we could make a game out of it, kind a like TC3's own amazing race version, just much smaller and of course more limited. Yeah, now I know I am dreaming...but the idea is good. Probably just not possible.”

“Gemini, what do you mean by making a game out of it? I don't understand......”

“I am not sure. Maybe make the hikes into a game, like the amazing race. You know get clues of some sort. I know that's not possible because each trail would need to be hiked in advance by someone who leaves the clues. I am just so much into this amazing race crab that I am trying to find a way to do this by myself. LOL Telling you, I am going nuts!!!”

“I would like it being in November before Thanksgiving or in December before Christmas. I think that the cold will control the crowd. Every other outdoor event is in spring, summer, or fall - we are die-hards! We can handle the cold!

I also like the idea of keeping it in Tennessee cause... well, I drove barely 2 hours, hee hee. But, I would still come if it was moved around; however, but I think it should stay in the mountains whether it is Georgia, North Carolina, or Kentucky.”

“I would come no matter what too. I think it was a great event, and towndawg did a great job. I would not want to organize some event like this because you can never make it right for everyone. I was more then happy, so towndawg, do whatever you think is best. We are all just dreaming here. Maybe of a 30 day event?? LOL”

“Don't put the cart before the horse. TownDawg has to make the first decision on whether he keeps control over HIS idea and THE event, or whether he sets up an association or board to run the event. I certainly could NOT have run the event better than TownDawg did with all the logistics and prizes.

Second, as to the date, no matter when you set it, some backpackers will be disatisfied. Cooler or cold weather is a must so some newbie doesn't poison somebody with food spoiled in hot weather. A holiday week end would attract more backpackers if that is the way the event people, be it TownDawg or a Board, want to go.

Third, I have a few ideas on marketing the event, sponsorships, and other suggestions. A lot of great backpackers and great minds attended TC2 will certainly also have great suggestions. After TownDawg decides who, how, and if next years event is going to be run, I will email those suggestions to the controling authority. If my suggestions are followed, great. If they are not followed, still great. Either way, the Titanium Chef backpacking cooking competition is still the BEST original idea in backpacking since nylon and ziplock bags.”

“and I totally agree that towndawg did a great job! I think neither one of us was trying to get the event to a different date, we are all just voicing our opinions, for some it's better during summer, for some better in november, december, etc...Just like I said in an earlier message, you just CAN'T get it perfect for everyone. I THINK we are all pretty much sure that no matter what, it was a great event and we will be there next year. I don't want to speak for everyone, but at least that's how I feel. Prosecutor: I was just dreaming! I know some sort of "clue game" is not possible.

FOR FUN: how about some sort of survey?”

“Several schools of thought on this.

Moving it around makes sense, but the fact is that this years event was close to being a logistical nightmare. Having it in the same place next year would make the logistics so much smoother. i.e. We already know where to get the water buffalo; the rangers have a degree of confidence in this; we know the site will support the numbers; etc.

Moving it back a little seems to make more sense as we did dodge the weather bullet. One of our famous "ice storms" just before the event could be the deal breaker for a lot of people.

TD did an outstanding job, as did everyone who served on the organizational committee. I think that TD either has to collapse this event to select invitees only or that he almost has to go to a Board or Committee to run this. IMHO.”

“chili:
great means outstanding in my small german/english vocubulary.

Just wanted to make that clear. I was just messing around here, and I hope no one thought I was doing something else.

I keep getting the feeling that you are for once taking me serious. I sure hope not!!!!”

“no gemini, you bring up a great point and the work on Tc3 has to start in January if this event is going to stay on the current growth rate

I would say that TD needs to be the person to just go and talk this up, a promoter of sorts

A Board or Committee can take care of the logistical hurdles”

“puhhh!! I feel better now. Thought everyone is missunderstanding me there for a second.”

“He Who Wears Horns While Dancing understands you perfectly!”

“I will once again pitch the idea of any weekend but the first weekend in December for purely altruistic reasons: that is the weekend of the Army-Navy game and I attend the Army-Navy game.

I'll also second the idea of having it in October. I don't really think we need to worry about newbies poisoning people. If that is an issue, an email outlining steps to keep food safe would be appropriate.

Beyond a TC3, I like the idea of people getting together for camping trips. An east coast version of Montanapalooza would certainly be fun, which is one reason I planned Spring on the Sods, not that it is limited to east coasters. It's just that I can't get out to Montana at this particular point in my life.”

“Spring on the Sods? When?”

“Early to mid-May. See Spring on the Sods thread. I will figure out and post dates after the holidays.”

“i guess that's a newbie question:
where the heck are the sods??”

“My thoughts are this.

DATES: I think from an attendance standpoint it should be moved up. Weekend before thanksgiving
Labor Day weekend
Late October

It is alot easier to get vendors(discounted gear) and donations(gear) if it before Thanksgiving. That was the biggest objection on getting vendors and retailers to show up. After Thanksgiving, their people need to be in the store handling all the x-mas shopping.


LOCATION: I am fine with wherever. I think that BSF would be fine for this next year, but i think past that it would be good to move it around somewhere else(red river gorge??). The rapor we have at BSF is good after the way the event went off without a hitch and there was really NO TRACE of us being there.

THERE ARE 2 OPTIONS:

Keep it the same and have the same great time we had. less vendor participation.

OR

Move it up.. Then the event will draw more people.


DISCLAIMER: I am just a pione. I have no dog in this fight. This is Towndawg's deal. His idea. I'm not going to gripe or criticise anything. I have no right too.

My PHILOSOPHY: The NFL decides when the SUPER BOWL will be. It's there decision, not mine...If it doesn't go the way I want...I have 2 choices..

I can go...or ....i can not go..

Same thing here. TD--you plan it the way you want to. My suggestion is this: don't post anything on this board as to the details of the planning. There will be critics and you can't please everyone.

Just plan it and say "here are the dates and place, either you can be there or you can not"

Just like any other event in life.

just my buck twenty-five's worth”

“Late october would be great!”

“Thanks for the info, guys -- I ain't ignoring ya -- just lurking a little bit cos I am buried today at work.

If you truly want to help -- keep posting all these great ideas.. and consider.. let me forward you an outline for a business plan.

I REALLY need to get this done in the next month or so. There are about 9 points, and if this goes the way I see it going, the business plan needs to be developed ASAP.

If you want to contribute your ideas to that -- then send me a separate email so I know you are serious, and I will forward the business plan (only an template/outline right now) to you to review.

Everything posted here is good -- but for example.. (and this is just one idea I have)

1) What if the winner not only won prizes -- but what if Mountain House dehydrated foods used their winning recipe in the next round of foods to be marketed?”

“TD - set yourself a deadline (Jan. 30th?) and post it here. I'm sure there'll be plenty of folks willing to keep you on schedule. :)

But don't forget to delegate as well!”

“good idea towndawg. i likes maple's idea too , of having a backpackers recipe book, but take it one step further, and let the proceeds go toward the TC3 fund. october would be better for us and i think for lots of folks. keep up the great work.”

“post what here?.. the outline of my business plan?”

“hmmmmmmm, interesting idea

I did not mean to imply things were not done well at the event. Heck, I wasn't there.

I just wanted the voices of all to be heard before decisions are made for next year, which will probably happen soon.

Say, you decide to leave it the same date. A lot of people perhaps start whining. Well, with this thread they can say in black and white language what they hope will happen, so it can be at least looked at before decisions are made on things.

Now is a good time. It's a great opportunity to hear suggestions.

Here is an example of another event I've helped with. Nordic Fest in Decorah. 3-day event bringing in upwards of 40,000-60,000 people to a town of 8,000.

The good, local Norwegians abhorred the idea of a beer tent. Finally, with its 30-something-th annual edition this past summer, a beer tent/garden idea was incorporated as a way to do direct fund-raising (yes and even without contributing to the delinquency of minors!! LOL)

A lot of people asked for that beer tent. It was always the Board's decision. Finally the Board listened to the great majority of the public and not just old, dry Norwegians. LOL!

So anyway, if we feel very strongly about something, now is the time to voice what we think.”

“nope, post your deadline.”

“Well, this was my first TC and I had a ball. Not sure about ways to improve it (except maybe I'll actually cook next time). Seems like it went off well just the way it is.

Here's a few suggestions:

Gemini - maybe a few few well placed geocache's with prizes in them might be enough of a game. Early saturday morning give out a list of locations (hopefully somewhere off of a few nice trails) and finders keepers. That might be fun.

Right-sizing - I had a fun time with our group size. I'm not sure what a larger event would be like. Better in some ways, worse in other ways. One thing it would be is an organizing headache. I would suggest that if the "management" were interested in up-sizing that they consult the organizers of other events to see what is involved BEFORE comitting to up-sizing. "Damascus Appalachian Trail Days" comes to mind. It hosts thousands with lots of events but it is in a town with all the amenities that a town can provide. TC is a camping event. Is there a slightly larger event (larger than TC) anywhere that is more analagous to TC that could be consulted?

When - Dec was fun and cold. If the weather is bad I'd rather be in snow for a weekend than rain (Oct). Snow does stifle attendance, though.

Where - well, I'm relocating next July so I'll have to get back to you on that one. I say you should definitely start considering Virginia, Gerogia, or Arizona though (front-runners in my move, LOL). Seriously though, BSF was really nice - plenty of room, great trails, no alcohol rules (LOL some more).

I can say that if TC stays exactly the same I'll keep coming back. If it changes I'll re-assess if I'm coming back after each experience. In a nutshell, I'll keep coming back 'til it sucks. LOL. Thanks again Dawg for the invite and a fun event.”

“TD, I've worked through a class on business plans and have helped with events. I'd take a look at it (although I don't know if I'll be much help, but I sure do have ideas..... lol)

lisapbia@yahoo.com”

“Yeah, how do you envision this event?

Party time with group of close friends? Or a fun, yet serious event that draws many excellent cooks on a nationwide basis?

The two are not necessarily exclusive of each other, but how would you incorporate them?

Were their any people there who did not party? Say any of the cookout winners? How about the Rick Glenn guy?

It would be worth hearing from them on what they'd like to see.”

“I just want to say -- this is what I asked for the FIRST time, about 8 months ago. Thank you. This ensures that Tc3 will meet your collective needs, and griping/whining will be minimized.”

“November is out. Gun hunting starts and we don't want any part of that. The "no-hunt" line was only about 100 feet from Appaloosa Field.

BSF is in a perfect geographic location. It's a one day drive from Michigan, Florida, the Atlantic coast and the Mississippi River. I think moving it would be a bad idea. Especially facing the fact that we now have a good relationship with the rangers.

Any proceeds need to go to sustaining TC events or be donated to some sort of charity that would interest backpackers. Trail building for one.

I have already suggested the recipe book idea a few months ago to TD in an email. Still a good idea.”

“...forget the sods....and any other 2 bit places that have been mentioned....why don't you bring this event to another level....

Here are 2 of my suggestions:

Virgin Islands NP....now how can you go wrong....clear blue water, dense forest to hike, nice size mountains, snorkeling, and my favourite bikinis..

OR

Hawaii Volcanoes NP...again..how can you go wrong....same as VI but now you add a freakin volcano to hike...can you get any better than that?....kick in a nice fresh lava flow and now we're really talkin'

Yeah Yeah Yeah...I know...that's not realistic...I can't afford to go there.....what? are you nuts...how am I gonna do that...well...you make it happen!!”

“One of the ideas that was suggested to me was that if we start franchizing local/regional events, the winner would get his/her trip paid to the National event.”

“well, I don't have any marketing experience besides the stuff you put on banners or on the index page of a website, but we do have a local backpacker store here in columbia, so I could print out some flyers and inform them about the next tc3 event. I doubt that it will bring a huge croud, but at least fellow hikers/backpackers will know about the next tc3. I am also willing to carpool. (not sure if this would help)

(that is if you want this event to be bigger next time)”

“the ozaark mountains would be a great place! on the OHT or the BRT. but I can prolly make TN too. after awhile ya'll will get itrted of hiking the same 4 trails year after year.”

“the winner would get his/her trip paid to the National event."
TownDawg
09:50:08 AM
12/12/02

Where is that money coming from?

And if we have that kind of sponsorship money, wouldn't it be better spent to put it into a Trail Association?”

“this is exactly part of what has to be hammered out.. there are so many thoughts, ideas.. options.. anyways.. I HAVE to get some work done here..

I will try to catch up with this thread later today..”

“after awhile ya'll will get itrted of hiking the same 4 trails year after year."
dewdtarts
10:04:48 AM
12/12/02


that's why i suggest it move every 2 years. So you can do different trails.”

“Titanium Chef needs to remain a free event and we need to work towards it becomeing self sustaining.

It won't be long before the imitators and knockoffs start doing for pay events.”

“I like the idea of having state competions and the winners advance. Without asking, I think the MMer's here would love to hold a cookoff in our fair state. I think there might be a good location fer that! Our region could be "Great Lakes" even. This would allow some how might be able to make the main event get some of the "flavor" of TC at a time that they can attend. I kow that as long as I work i my present job, I will never be able to attend TC in the first weeks in Dec. Have more local stuff going on will give you more access to experianced people to help with the main event. I second the suggestion to conduct the "meat and potatos" part via email. Hammers were being thrown all over the place with the last one. Everyone on the list would have to agree that any problems would be held "off TT" and only through mail, email, face-to face meetings, or phone call. TD, as I stated earlier, I would be mor ethan willing to help ya out. Please keep me in the loop, if you'd like. Email is on my profile.”

“Just a note on "good relationship with rangers." **If** the location were to move or rotate around or whatever, wouldn't these rangers give you glowing recommendations.

As more food for thought,"BSF is in a perfect geographic location. It's a one day drive from Michigan, Florida, the Atlantic coast and the Mississippi River." So that makes it an East Coast Tc event, does it not? It's not a one day's drive for someone from Oregon (Strider's a great chef, I understand)... or California... or the Montanapaloosers.

Along those lines, why does TC need to remain a free event? What does that mean? Entry fee-less? Let's just say it's currently not free to any of the people in vicinities listed above... if they must drive long distances and take off from work and/or fly.

Just some ideas to keep the discussions and brainstorming going.

Hmmmmmmm... I'm not sure how this would work, but you get this event going and nearby towns/parks etc. could "bid" for it. Yeah, that's a different frame of mind. Have organizations that would WANT the backpackers and give concessions to hold the event. A whole different way of looking at things.

just brainstorming.”

“Everyone just show up in Lizs' front yard. Iowa is pretty centrally-located!”

“Doesn't Dunadan live in Kansas?”

“LOL! is .85 of an acre big enough?? Not sure of city/county regulations though. Sitting within 2 miles of city limits, I'm governed by both. However, there is a great little waterfall on private property VERY CLOSE by! lol

Maybe the Coralville Reservoir (which is Army Corps of Engineers project), by North Liberty, RIGHT OFF I-80 (probably 5 miles to Iowa City)? I have connections there. The Sugar Bottom Recreation area. Currently lots of mountain biking trails -- which I assume could be closed to mountain biking if alerted ahead of time.

You'd be in an area on your own, away from other campers. Could hike the trails. They've had trail building schools there through IMBA (International Mountain Bike Association and something we hikers seem to be a bit lacking)

Maybe Iowa City/Coralville Visitors and Convention Bureau would like to see a large group of people coming to town??? lol

I have connections... and just for the sake of showing it could potentially be held somewhere else, I might ask my "connection" some questions. I mean, they've worked with rowdy (yet trail building) mountain bikers. Backpackers would be a breeze, one would think. ;-)

lol”

“RE: The rangers giving reccomendations. I'd think that to be a true statement Lizs.

The location comment was pertaining to it being a perfect location for a eastern event.

Yes, entry fee less.

Everything you do you have to spend money to get to and take the time to get to it. We can't control that and I don't see why that is an issue for us to address.

As one of those who drove 10.5 hours to be there I'll be the first to tell you that getting there is my problem and not the events problem.”

“Well part of what goes on in my mind -- is knowing some folks drove a long way.. therefore --there has to be justification for such..

In other words -- Why does anyone go to ANY annual event.. ?

1) friends.

2) location.

3) information/networking.

4) level of expertise.

We have a blueprint for a successful event. My hope is:

1) those who find getting to the SE USA a financial hardship, create events that mirror our efforts, and

2) those who live within a days drive of the SE USA -- let's make ours even better.

Personally?.. I think creating multiple events by various organizations in the same locale would not be to that end.

If imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, I hope we wrote the book last week on how to conduct such an event -- and anyone who sees this vehicle as a way to meet those four basic needs listed above, go for it.”

“I'm just saying, consider making it easier for others to attend. Some events are tied to locations (most are) due to home town celebrations, etc. But if they're not tied to a location for some reason like that, what are the big objections to moving it?

Say, a class reunion. Every 5 years different people are in on planning it. Every 5 years it is inevitably somewhere new. It might rotate back to a location again, later. But there is no tie to, say, one restaurant, so it moves about.

You are in Florida, right, HPM? 90 days out of 100, during Nov. - March, that is going to be "no brains" easier driving than from the upper midwest. No potential snowstorms, ice storms, slippery early morning frost, black ice, etc.

Also, are you involved in the Boy Scouts? I'm wondering about not having an entry fee. If it's to allow kids to participate, waive it for them.

I think an entry fee might be good in at least a couple ways:
1. Provide funds (however small) for future planning of events.
2. Provide a form of accountability to those participating. (Just like Weight Watchers... lol) If you pay, I'd say a person would be more likely to show up for the event (no-shows might be a future problem, say, if there's a limit to entries)

Another thought: nonprofit does not mean you have to steer clear of entry fees or maybe even paying a $5 to $10 (or whatever) fee to attend. A release of liablity could perhaps be included to be sighed, or at least in information given when the registration is accepted.

Now, back to my "Midwest venue......." LOL...

I am just remembering that at Sugarbottom, an army reserve or national guard group uses it for manuevers. Bet you coud get a water buffalo easy as pie. Also, showers would be available within probably .5 miles at the regular campground. And if you totally would want to avoid anyone being around, the public campground closed perhaps by mid Oct.”