Meanwhile Back in Afghanistan

“don, what tax hike? so you're saying that bush is not conservative enough? geesh, this guy can't win.....














ps, i'll never stfu, so quit whinin about THAT.......”

“the Arabs were eating their dates.”

“I won't be the first to say it, just one more having said it: war is no picnic. Not that I can say that from personal experience, since you know I am not a veteran. The last veteran in my immediate family is my father, and his war ended 50 years ago next year. Still, I honor and respect the military. Especially in the age of the all-volunteer military.

After all, it doesn't just take guts to serve in a totalitarian-run organization amidst so much freedom and choice; it takes guts to serve in a totalitarian-run organization amidst a political system that can send the military into the midst of some of the worst and most hazardous possible geographical locations on this Earth: along the 38th Parallel in South Korea, in Kosovo, Afghanistan, Haiti or Palm Beach County, Florida. Places inherently unfriendly to our ways of life, liberty, and ability to vote freely, let alone void of knowledge of how to vote at all.

Well, maybe that's a bit overstated: they know how to vote in South Korea.

At any rate, in the wake of the first anniversary of 9/11, immediately on the heels of the more somber remembrances of that day were and are the more immediate matters at hand: the war on terror. The war that began, depending on whom you talk to, on 9/11/01, or in '93, or '91, '83, or even back as far as 1977, with the hijacking of the liner Achille Lauro and the murder of a disabled American passenger aboard. At present, we have answered Al Qaida and their nefarious allies with a substantial and emphatic reduction in their assets and personnel in Afghanistan. Wherever Bin Laden is, he's in a hole, either as a fugitive or as fragments.

Dunno what good he'll be to his 70 some-odd virgins with his thughood blowed off, but I digress.

Anyway, debate continues over the necessity vs the risks vs the justifications of taking the war on terror to Iraq, and the terrorists' dubious best friend, Saddam Hussein. Some say Hussein is an ally of terror, a facilitator of 9/11, a threat to the region and elsewhere with his procurement, possession, and pursuit of biological, chemical and nuclear weapons and delivery systems for those weapons. Some say that there is no credible proof that Saddam has such weapons, seeks such weapons, or would use or turn over such weapons to terrorists if he had them. Some don't know what to say, but say something just to be heard, like many a member state of the UN, and American media.

I'll be frank, my fellow TTers, though that's not my name: I don't personally know what Saddam has. I don't personally know just how much a threat to world peace Saddam is. I don't personally know if Saddam is actually stupid or brazen enough to launch a strike at the US or Israel with weapons of mass destruction, knowing our and the Israelis' overwhelming ability to strike back and make the Iraqi weather forecast cloudy and 12,000 degrees.

What I don't personally know, I'll leave to the alleged political and military experts to determine and figure out. That's why they convinced us/conned us/tricked us/ballot bamboozled us into voting for them in the first place. What I'm hear to convey is that, instead of taking the standard liberal media approach to a potential warlike condition with Saddam (ie., "it'll be terrible, bloody, it'll alienate us, Arabs will hate us, the world will condemn us, aspirin factories everywhere will be at risk", yada yada), I'm hear to suggest that this war needn't necessarily be just blood and horror.

It could conceivably be fun.

With no further adieu, I present for your aghast pleasure and consternation, a dozen (or so) Fun Reasons Dubya & Co. Should Attack Saddam:

1. It'll allow the military to do what they do best: kill the enemy and break things. I'm told there's nothing like the glow of an exploding T-80 tank in an A-10's gunsight on a moonlit night in the magical, mystical desert. Even better with a glass of wine and your favorite squeeze while watching Nightline.

2. Among the more ignorant of the liberal Democrats -- a vital voter base of theirs -- there'll be a certain glee in the notion of the US Army attacking and destroying Iraqi REPUBLICAN Guards units (remember, this is the party of Carville, Begala, McAuliffe and Brazille, among other such idjits). It's not the same thing as the GOP, but I won't tell 'em if you won't.

3. May as well use up some of our stockpiled ordnance and supplies with rapidly approaching expiration dates on them. After all, don't wanna get OSHA's thongs in a knot for dropping bombs or serving MREs (Meals Ready to Eat) past their 'Use by' dates now, do we?

4. It'll give C&W's singer/songwriter Toby Keith something else to sing about that pisses off Peter Jennings.

5. We can have a contest to see who'll win the next nom de guerre akin to 'Ol Blood and Guts' Patton or 'Stormin Norman'.

6. Just imagine the next generation of laser guided smart bomb videos of target negation, possibly narrated by Bob Saget for a talked about* upcoming American Military's Funniest and Most Punishing Home Videos. We might even get lucky and catch a video of Scott Ritter in Baghdad, catching a Tomahawk enema. There has to be a market for that 'un.

7. Eagerly anticipate the amusement as various Arab nations publicly decry the fate of Saddam, while they privately enjoy watching Saddam get the camel snarf stomped out of him.

8. Equally anticipate with guffaws Al Gore's newest reinvention of himself: "I took the initiative in creating the plan that deposed Saddam." Ms. Brazille has already started that gambit on a recent Sunday TV news show. I have laugh tracks all ready, not that they'll really be needed. I mean, this is AlGore we're laughing about.

9. A shooting war will return CNN and Wolf Blitzer to almost useful status again, though I don't think it'll reunite Ted Turner and Hanoi Jane, but that's my third digression.

10. Start an office pool on how long it is before Bill Clinton is telling Larry King how he
and not AlGore had the perfect plan to oust Saddam to help build and fortify his (Clinton's) legacy, but those scandal-addicted Republicans undercut him with Monica as a humidor. Hilarity already made a vacuous, unsustainable suggestion on a recent Tim Russert interview toward this nonsense. Do we already have a pool winner?

11. What could be more fun than to listen to Hillary Clinton profess her support of the Bush administration's war efforts, then to secretly catch her thinking she's off camera sticking her finger down her throat, followed by her rushing off to call and assure Mrs. Arafat that Hillary "really didn't mean a word of it." Won't that be a riot to republish in time for Election 2008?


12. At some point, someone will find or smuggle out a cave video of radical Islamicists wincing as stock in AlQaida.com takes another precipitous devaluation. A flurry of flying turbans, scrambling camels and anguished "Aaaaayeeeeeee"s will add a comedic touch.


13. The only thing that makes liberal academia crazier than a Republican President in the White House is an American military victory in the field. Put those two together and the faculty of many a college campus will have a mass apoplexy that I imagine SNL can do parody justice to.


So while war is hell, there can be an almost fun side to war, too. Especially when it's against an old 'bah humbug against humanity' like Saddam Hussein. Enjoy.”

“lmao tilt AND FG!”

“Bush isn't a conservative... look at what he's doing. Spending American tax dollars to take over the oil industry in Iraq, ignoring terrorism in Saudi Arabia, creating a puppet government in Afghanistan for the proposed oil pipeline. And let's not forget the increasing size of the Government. Yes it's in reaction to terrorism, but since the breakdown essentially had to do with illegal immigration, AND we know both political parties downplay that issue for political gain we will and are still pretty wide open to terrorist attacks.

Neither political party is serving the American people anymore, this is a money-grab.

For every weak-a$$, stupid, whiney Democratic initiative there is a fear mongering, short-visioned, whiney Republican initiative.

And keep in mind... Osama's motivation for every terrorist act of the past few years was America in SA... I say focus on Osama until we have his friggin' head on a stick”

“Donman for President!!! He obviously has all the answers (how short-sighted of us all not to notice before...).”

“i guess don would have been against the size of government increasing during WWII also.....















WWIII has already started and all you can do is attack your own leader....








like a theif in the night...wars and rumors of wars......”

“Mutt,
Quoting you again.
>
“Of course our actions in Afghanistan were beneficial for the reasons I listed above. Until you refute them, you look silly making this comment.”
>
[My comment being “our invasion of Afghanistan did virtually nothing to solve our terrorism problem.”]
>
In re-reading your post these are the four claims you make.
>
1) “There is no doubt that disrupting Al Qaida impeded their operations. Recall, there were no terrorist attacks for, what, 9 months after our operations.”
>
Okay, but so what? After nine months they started again. And they will continue. Sorry if it sounds silly to you but I don’t think we got much for the capital outlay. Al Qaida is out there right now, rebuilding and biding their time. ‘Our actions in Afghanistan’ as you call them, accomplished little. In trying to cut out the cancerous tumor, we did nothing more than spread the cancer cells all through the body. Probably 25 to 50 percent of Al Qaida members escaped to Pakistan. Even with a twenty-five million-dollar bounty bin Laden is still out there.
Bush just made his war on terror a thousand times harder.
>
2) “We now have a better intelligence picture of Al Qaida's operations.”
>
I would turn that around and say, “No, we now have a better intelligence of PAST Al Qaida operations and operatives.” Now they will change their methods of operation and targets and develop more highly compartmentalized cells. And they won’t have any trouble recruiting new members. The invasion of Afghanistan was the greatest recruiting tool Al Qaida could have asked for. Every day Muslims sit back watching their brand of CNN and they see what the Americans are doing in and to the Muslim world. They see us occupying their holiest country. They see Bush’s duplicity of talking Iraq invasion and then turning around and working on a diplomatic solution with North Korea. They see what the Israelis are doing in the occupied territories. Pushing hard on them just makes them stronger. Kill one and the five brothers, ten cousins, twenty brother-in-laws that weren’t in Al Qaida or Islamic Jihad, etc. rise up to take his place. An American B-52 drops a bomb on one innocent bystander in Afghanistan and 10,000 see it on TV and change their minds about us. All that money literally blown away and the intelligence we got won’t be worth crap six months from now. Silly of me but I see the net sum gain equaling zero in short order.
>
3) “There is little doubt that a strong military presence in Afghanistan provides leverage against Pakistan and to a lesser extent Iran.”
>
First let’s deal with the lesser. Up until Bush’s ‘Axis of Evil’ speech Iran was actually trying to establish some sort of rapport with the United States. The middle-of-the-road people in Iran were gaining some influence. Washington and Tehran were moving closer together. Bush’s speech and his invasion of Afghanistan probably killed any further chance of that. The only leverage these actions accomplished was firmly pushing Iran back into the hands of the Mullahs. I will admit though, the Mullahs and the middle-of the-road Iranians are now afraid of us. You probably think that’s the right approach to take, I mean you being a Big Picture guy and all that. Nevertheless I hope you’ll be honest enough to admit that (1) the majority of Iranians probably hate us for it (2) the Iranians won’t have any trouble finding and banding together with other people and/or countries that also hate us and (3) sometimes the best laid plans go awry.
>
On Pakistan. Your so-called leverage on Pakistan could be the very thing that pushes them over the cliff into a radical Muslim theocracy. Off-hand that doesn’t sound like a good idea but maybe it’s the true intent of Bush and the neo-cons that surround him. If Pakistan was in the hands of the radical Muslims we would have a perfect excuse to go in and get their nukes. It would certainly look better than flip-flopping on a government we call an ally. But that brings up several questions in my mind. If we’re not trying to push them into Muslim radicalism exactly what is the intent of all this leverage you speak of? We not going to talk them out of their nukes. You Big Picture guys know what Bush wants. Enlighten us silly people. Let’s say we leverage them into Muslim radicalism and rush in and steal their nukes. What are we going to do then, occupy the country? Wouldn’t we have to if we wanted to stop a major source of terrorism? That would be the only way to root out all those Al Qaida members we pushed across the border. Sounds like a losing proposition to me.
>
4) “The 'war' delivered a symbolic message to the world that Bush is on a unilateralist path. There is little doubt that this message and the decisive 'victory' helped the U.S. strong-arm reluctant countries into helping on the war on terrorism.”
>
You are dead right about Bush taking us down the unilateralist path. And he is strong-arming reluctant countries into “helping”. But everybody hates a strong-arming bully. And even our best allies are beginning to cast wayward glances towards the door and are figuring a way to get
out.
>
Even if you were right on all four points, the reputation of the United States is taking a beating for it. Our decisive victory seems, according to the press I read, not so decisive. And in my opinion Bush’s War on Terror and the ways he is going about fighting it are about as successful and costly and stupid as our War on Drugs. Furthermore I don’t think your Big Picture insight is all that insightful. I think you’ve read a lot of that Richard Pearl / Paul Wolfowitz policy paper bull$hit and you’ve bought into it hook line and sinker. That or you want us to buy into it. Sorry but my silly opinion hasn’t changed one bit by your arguments or your fancy Latin phases.”

“solitary hiker....you're the king for the day, so what are you going to do about all this mess? seriously, no blaming anything on past administrations, just deal the hand......bomb an asperin factory or an empty training facility? do nothing at all? tell us the answer oh great and wise one.......”

“Well at least we didn’t bomb the bejezus out of them, destroy what was left of their infrastructure and then just forget about them. Could you imagine if Bush had neglected to put that $300 million promised for rebuilding a post-war Afghanistan in the FY2003 budget? I can’t imagine why anyone would be distrustful of our ‘wars of liberation’.


Taliban Reviving Structure in Afghanistan
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

The manner of his death suggests the Taliban is not only determined to remain a force in this country, but is reorganizing and reviving its command structure.

There is little to stop them. The soldiers and police who were supposed to be the bedrock of a stable postwar Afghanistan have gone unpaid for months and are drifting away.

At a time when the United States is promising a reconstructed democratic postwar Iraq, many Afghans are remembering hearing similar promises not long ago.

Instead, what they see is thieving warlords, murder on the roads, and a resurgence of Taliban vigilantism.

``It's like I am seeing the same movie twice and no one is trying to fix the problem,'' said Ahmed Wali Karzai, the brother of Afghanistan's president and his representative in southern Kandahar. ``What was promised to Afghans with the collapse of the Taliban was a new life of hope and change. But what was delivered? Nothing. Everyone is back in business.''

Karzai said reconstruction has been painfully slow -- a canal repaired, a piece of city road paved, a small school rebuilt.

``There have been no significant changes for people,'' he said. ``People are tired of seeing small, small projects. I don't know what to say to people anymore.''

When the Taliban ruled they forcibly conscripted young men. ``Today I can say 'we don't take your sons away by force to fight at the front line,''' Karzai remarked. ``But that's about all I can say.''

From safe havens in neighboring Pakistan, aided by militant Muslim groups there, the Taliban launched their revival to coincide with the war in Iraq and capitalize on Muslim anger over the U.S. invasion, say Afghan officials.

Karzai said the Taliban are allied with rebel commander Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, supported by Pakistan and financed by militant Arabs.

The attacks have targeted foreigners and the threats have been directed toward Afghans working for international organizations.

Abdul Salam is a military commander for the government. Last month he was stopped at a Taliban checkpoint in the Shah Wali Kot district of Kandahar and became a witness to the killing of Munguia, a 39-year-old water engineer from El Salvador.

After stopping Munguia and his three-vehicle convoy, gunmen made a phone call to Mullah Dadullah, a powerful former Taliban commander who happens to have an artificial leg provided by the Red Cross.

Mimicking a telephone receiver by cupping a hand on his ear, Salam recalled the gunmen's side of the conversation.

``I heard him say Mullah Dadullah,'' he said. ``I heard him ask for instructions.''

When the conversation ended the Taliban moved quickly, Salam said. They shoved Munguia behind one of the vehicles, siphoned gasoline from the tanks and used it to set the vehicles on fire.

Munguia was standing nearby. One Taliban raised his Kalashnikov rifle and fired at Manguia.

Then they told the others: ``You are working with kafirs (unbelievers). You are slaves of Karzai and Karzai is a slave to America.''

``This time we will let you go because you are Afghan,'' Salam remembered them saying, ``but if we find you again and you are still working for the government we will kill you.''

In the latest killing in southern Afghanistan, gunmen on Thursday shot to death Haji Gilani, a close Karzai ally, in southern Uruzgan province. Gilani was one of the first people to shelter Karzai when he secretly entered Afghanistan to foment a rebellion against the Taliban in late 2001.

International workers in Kandahar don't feel safe anymore and some have been moved from the Kandahar region to safer areas, said John Oerum, southwest security officer for the United Nations. But Oerum is trying to find a way to stay in southern Afghanistan. To abandon it would be to let the rebel forces win, he says.

The Red Cross, with 150 foreign workers in Afghanistan, have suspended operations indefinitely.

Today most Afghans say their National Army seems a distant dream while the U.S.-led coalition continues to feed and finance warlords for their help in hunting for Taliban and al-Qaida fighters.

Karzai, the president's brother, says: ``We have to pay more attention at the district level, build the administration. We know who these Taliban are, but we don't have the people to report them when they return.''

Khan Mohammed, commander of Kandahar's 2nd Corps, says his soldiers haven't been paid in seven months, and his fighting force has dwindled. The Kandahar police chief, Mohammed Akram, said he wants 50 extra police in each district where the Taliban have a stronghold. But he says his police haven't been paid in months and hundreds have just gone home.

``There is no real administration all over Afghanistan, no army, no police,'' said Mohammed. ``The people do not want the Taliban, but we have to unite and build, but we are not.''

nytimes”

“Looks like President Jeb Bush will have to clean up the mess his brother created. Runs in the family.”

“FAIZABAD, Afghanistan (Reuters) -- A group of Afghan Muslim clerics have threatened to call for a holy war against the United States in three days unless it hands over military interrogators reported to have desecrated the Quran.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/05/15/afghan.protests.reut/index.html”

“Someone tell them it has already been started.

No one ever wins with terrorism. But it does what it is soposed to do.

”

“I just read the article... Crazy man...

Terrorism is a used by people to achive a goal. It is there to disrupt our way of life. The Media is one of their biggest tools. I am in a 95% Muslim Country right now. It is a totally different kind of people, but you will find, when you are here, that many are taught hate at a very young age.



It is easy to recruit people whom have nothing and nothing to look forward to. That is why I am where I am. We are doing a good job here in Djibouti and the people here love us.

Not all is war...

http://www.thebackpacker.com/trailtalk/thread/38220,3.php

Later,
~BW”

“Thanks BW for showing a little kindness for us all.”

“Thanks...

Cheers... It is cantina night!!!!!

Beer is a good thing”

“"[O]ur military went to Afghanistan, destroyed the training camps of al Qaeda, and put the Taliban out of business forever."
- President Bush http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/11/20031124-6.html


U.S. Forces Surprised By Taliban's Resilience In Remote Afghanistan

QALAT, Afghanistan -- When Spec. Nick Conlon and the other members of his infantry battalion learned they would be deployed to the Afghan province of Zabol this spring, many expected their worst enemy to be boredom. In preparation, Conlon stocked up on more than 20 DVDs, such as "Alien vs. Predator," "X-Men" and "Daredevil."

But in the three months since the battalion set up camp in this isolated, mountainous region of southeastern Afghanistan, Conlon has not had time to watch a single movie. Instead, the battalion has found itself at the center of a heated though somewhat forgotten war that is still underway 3 1/2 years after the extremist Taliban militia was ousted from power.

The Taliban forces, estimated at anywhere from 2,000 to 10,000 fighters, cannot hold territory against U.S. forces. But the battalion in Zabol has been attacked more than 10 times since March. During one bloody seven-hour clash in Zabol in May and in a series of pitched firefights across the south and east since then, the Taliban has revealed itself to be a hardy, resilient foe equipped with machine guns, rocket-propelled grenades and mortars.
[...]
Meanwhile, the men of 2nd Battalion, 503rd Airborne Infantry, have had to drastically adjust their expectations.

"I thought the Taliban had fallen," Conlon marveled recently. "I thought this was going to be a peacekeeping mission."
[...]”

“In my opinion, everybody should read (and should have read) Tournament of Shadows by a very able duo of Ameucan historians. It's 638 pages, but well worth the read.”

“Russians invade Afghanistan.

About 5-7 years later - Russians tuck tail and exit the country. Nothing accomplished against Afghani tribesmen armed with shoulder fired weapons.

US military smiles and says, "Didn't you Russians learn anything from the American experience in Viet Nam?"

2005- The Russians are smiling. They know the Smirking Chimp didn't learn anything from Viet Nam or the Russian Afghani disaster. He was way too busy snorting coke to learn anything.
last edited: 6/23/05 12:32:17 PM”

“Snorting Jesus gives a better high.”

“So when are you volunteering to go there Violin?”

“Snorting Jesus

Is that Bush code for snorting crystal meth?”

“The 'liberated' women of Afghanistan:

18 August 2005 (RFE/RL) -- The United Nations says nearly half of all marriages in Afghanistan are thought to involve girls under age 16.

The UN Population Fund said today in a statement that in some rural areas children as young as six years old are married off by their families.

The statement added that it is common for girls to be traded to resolve conflicts between tribal families. Such children usually become the "property" of the family or individual who receives them.

The UN agency announced that it was organizing a workshop later this month for Islamic leaders from around Afghanistan to try to combat the problem.

http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2005/08/59907a6c-b4ad-4063-b6d0-be307a1effcd.html”

“KANDAHAR, Afghanistan (AP) Taliban militants beheaded a teacher in a central Afghan town while his wife and eight children watched, officials said Wednesday, describing the latest in a string of attacks targeting educators at schools where girls study.

Four men stabbed Malim Abdul Habib eight times late Tuesday before decapitating him in the courtyard of his home in Qalat, said Ali Khail, a spokesman for the provincial government of Zabul, where the attack took place.

The assailants made Habib's wife, four sons and four daughters watch, Khail said. His children were between the ages of 2 and 22. No other family members were hurt.

The insurgents killed Habib, 45, after he refused to go with them to meet their commander, said the victim's cousin, Esanullah, who goes by only one name.

The attackers fled and Habib's wife called the police, Khail said. Police are questioning three people who were guests in the victim's home at the time.

Habib was the headmaster of Shaikh Mathi Baba high school, which is attended by 1,300 boys and girls.

Zabul, a remote and mountainous province populated mainly by Pashtuns and bordering Pakistan, is a hotbed of Taliban militancy. The former Taliban regime prohibited girls from attending school as part of its widely criticized drive to establish what it considered a ``pure'' Islamic state.

http://wcco.com/worldwire/Afghan-TeacherBeheade-ai/resources_news_html”

“Taliban = bad guys”

“No, no, no SS! Taliban = good guys pushed to do bad things because of us. They aren’t terrorists. They are freedom fighters!”

“I'm surprised that the women and children weren't raped. Islamic animals - they need to be put down.”

“ummm... Nigal...

It was Saint Ronnie that called them freedom fighters.

Proclamation 5034


(he also said that StoveStomper eats worms)
last edited: 1/05/06 9:49:36 AM”

“Nigal, we have to keep it simple so peeps like violin will understand the big picture.
LOL”

“KABUL, Afghanistan Mar 19, 2006 (AP)— An Afghan man is being prosecuted in a Kabul court and could be sentenced to death on a charge of converting from Islam to Christianity, a crime under this country's Islamic laws, a judge said Sunday.

The trial is believed to be the first of its kind in Afghanistan and highlights a struggle between religious conservatives and reformists over what shape Islam should take here four years after the ouster of the Islamic fundamentalist Taliban regime.

The defendant, 41-yer-old Abdul Rahman, was arrested last month after his family accused him of becoming a Christian, Judge Ansarullah Mawlavezada told The Associated Press in an interview. Rahman was charged with rejecting Islam and his trial started Thursday.

During the one-day hearing, the defendant confessed that he converted from Islam to Christianity 16 years ago while working as a medical aid worker for an international Christian group helping Afghan refugees in the Pakistani city of Peshawar, Mawlavezada said.

"We are not against any particular religion in the world. But in Afghanistan, this sort of thing is against the law," the judge said. "It is an attack on Islam."

Mawlavezada said he would rule on the case within two months.

Afghanistan's constitution is based on Shariah law, which is interpreted by many Muslims to require that any Muslim who rejects Islam be sentenced to death, said Ahmad Fahim Hakim, deputy chairman of the state-sponsored Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=1744148&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312”

“Ah yes the peaceful respectful religion of Islam. I agree Violin, we need to stop trying to change them. Damn right why deal with them in some third world country. Better to let them grow (like say the Nazis in 1936) to where they are occupying a percentage of our minority population (like say FRANCE today) so they can bring their understanding loving belief to us?

Yeah and Cindy Sheehan would be another headless corpse draining in a soccer field.”

“Thanks for demonstrating the use of the rhetorical strawman.”

“The majority of today's Christians have no idea of their murderous history. The boys that follow Allah are just trying to even the score.”

“LOL...WInston Churchill used to make a humorous reference. He would explain that the same people who had demanded they disarm and show Hitler they were not a threat were the ones demanding Churchill's head for the damage from the Blitz.”

“Does the american native hate Islam?”

“Does the american native hate Islam?”

“"The majority of today's Christians have no idea of their murderous history. "

they know. they just have it on "ignore"”

“The Crusades during the middle ages comes to mind.

Getting radical Islam out of the middle ages seems to be a noble cause.”

“at least into the three-quarters ages like most decent religions”

“"The majority of today's Christians have no idea of their murderous history. "

they know. they just have it on "ignore"”
Crash Bang
4:51:25 PM
3/20/06

Very nice bit of rhetoric. And true.

I do disagree with Bateau's claim that Moslems are just trying to even the score. Wahabi influenced Islam and all radical Islamism are intolerant in their own right. It's silly to blame Christians. Islam went on an imperialist missionary campaign on its own accord and under its own steam.”

“LOL @ XL. Of course we should intervene and stop this kind of savagery among the Islamic fundamentalists. Its a good thing we invaded Afghanistan to put a stop to it...

Oh wait, this was in Afghanistan.

er... never mind.”

“literally - referencing the middle ages - LOL”

“CUTE Ped, I remember the Soviets used to make the same accusation regarding Central America, then they went on their Military Assistance (step 1 kill the people who invited you in) in Afghanistan. If you want you might check. In September of 2001 3000 citizens died in a vicious attack (99% of whom never took an oath to protect and defend the constitution).
We entered Afghanistan to remove the terrorist government (kinda like um...the Barbary Pirates in the 1800s) and replace it with a more democratic government
Granted they have a Islamic government but it is much more free than say...the time your buddies the GRAND SOVIET PEOPLES ARMY came to help”

“The taliban are coming back from their strategic retreat from the cities years ago, and are adopting Iraqi insurgent tactics (i.e. losing militarily but using the liberal bias in Western Media to influence people like violin et al. to erode support for operations):

Geopolitical Diary: The Other Theater of Operations
May 19, 2006 04 34 GMT

While the Iraq war drags on, there is precious little discussion of the other active theater of operations: Afghanistan. Afghanistan is frequently touted as the "un-Iraq," in the sense that the U.S. invasion of the country clearly was linked to fighting al Qaeda, and the United States has fought as part of a coalition. To drive that point home on Thursday, Canada voted (albeit by a margin of only four votes) to extend its mission in Afghanistan. Others have been indicating willingness to go on with their commitments there also.

At the same time, a major Taliban offensive is under way in Afghanistan. There was heavy fighting on Thursday when Taliban forces attacked the town of Mosa Qala, 300 miles southwest of Kabul. A suicide bomber attacked a convoy outside the city of Herat. Another suicide bomber struck near the town of Ghazni. All told, Afghan government reports set the death toll for the day at about 100. This does not count action elsewhere that was not widely reported.

It is essential to understand that the Taliban were not destroyed in the 2001 invasion. Under pressure from the Northern Alliance forces recruited by the United States, and by U.S. air power, Taliban forces declined combat in the cities, where they would have been decimated. They withdrew and dispersed, regrouping in isolated villages and across the Pakistani border. Then they systematically returned -- each year, increasing their tempo of operations and, each year, extending their reach.
[...]
The Soviets, with hundreds of thousands of troops, were unable to subdue insurgents in Afghanistan; the United States -- with perhaps a tenth of the number of forces that the Soviets had there -- doesn't have a chance.

The only advantage the United States has in this environment is the political fragmentation of the countryside.
[...]
It is not U.S. military force that blocks Taliban power, but the American ability to manipulate the constellation of forces in the country. Military force can preserve the government in Kabul; it cannot pacify the countryside.

The issue is that as Taliban power increases, the willingness of regional warlords to collaborate with the government and the United States decreases. No one wants to be caught on the wrong side of a war in that country. If the United States is perceived to have been defeated in Iraq, and if it appears the United States is losing its will to fight in Afghanistan -- which will be measured by its willingness to increase forces to match the Taliban's operational tempo -- then the strategy of coalition-building collapses.
[...]
The Taliban are back in Afghanistan, and they are not a marginal force. More important, they are not going anywhere, and they believe that the Americans -- like the British and Soviets -- will not be staying long. They can afford to be patient.”

“More:

Three factors are converging on the Canadians in Kandahar province: The perception by the Taliban and local warlords that the Canadians are not as formidable an opponent as the U.S. units they replaced, an influx of younger Taliban commanders eager to apply tactics used by insurgents in Iraq to their fight in Afghanistan, and a lack of financial resources to pay off local warlords, tribal leaders and government officials. Until the Canadians and other NATO troops can adjust to their new environment, fighting will continue, and possibly increase, in southern Afghanistan.

The U.S. presence in southern Afghanistan included selectively spreading money around the region for reconstruction projects. Although ostensibly meant to benefit the local population, especially in rural areas, these projects are actually used as a tool to buy the allegiance of the local warlords and tribal leaders who benefit more directly from them. By building roads, schools and other infrastructure in their areas, the local commanders see their people employed, receive money to provide "protection" for the projects, and get other "gifts" and gratuities as well. The United States had about $30 million to spend on these projects in southern Afghanistan, in addition to projects funded by nongovernmental organizations (NGOs).

Canadian commanders, however, lack that kind of money to spread around the local area for reconstruction projects.

[...]

Taking a lesson from the insurgents in Iraq, the Taliban realize that gaining media attention is an important aspect of their fight. Overrunning a remote small town in Kandahar or Helmand province and holding it for a few days until coalition and Afghan forces arrive to run them out could have an impact locally, but results in little media attention. On the other hand, a suicide or roadside bomb attack that kills a local police chief or official does result in media attention.

[...]
last edited: 5/19/06 1:09:32 PM”

“(CNN) -- A human rights group said Friday that about 34 civilians were killed in a U.S. air attack Monday on the village of Azizi in southern Afghanistan, more than double the number previously cited by President Hamid Karzai.

"According to a witness who was wounded and is now in the Mirwais hospital in Kandahar, there were two separate groups of civilians killed in the village," said Engineer Abdul Qader Noorzai, director of the Kandahar office of the Afghan Independent Human Rights Commission said.

He said one group of about 25 people was the extended family of a man named Atta Mohammad.

"They were living in a walled mud compound that was destroyed. The family included many women and children."

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/05/26/afghanistan.deaths/index.html”

“KABUL, Afghanistan (AP) -- A deadly traffic accident Monday involving U.S. troops sparked the worst riot in the Afghan capital since the fall of the Taliban. At least eight people were killed and 107 injured, an official said.

Hundreds of Afghan army troops and NATO peacekeepers in tanks deployed around the city, as protesters chanting "Death to America" marched on the presidential palace and rioters smashed police guard boxes and set fire to police cars.

Rioters ransacked several buildings, including a compound belonging to the aid group CARE International. Computers were set on fire and smoke billowed from the buildings.

The Afghan government announced a nighttime curfew, ordering all Kabul residents were to stay off the streets between 10 p.m and 4 a.m.

Yousuf Stanezai, an Interior Ministry spokesman, said anyone found outside during the curfew would suffer "serious measures."

A spokesman for the U.S.-led coalition expressed regret for any deaths and injuries, and said there would be an investigation.

Abdullah Fahim, a Health Ministry spokesman, said no foreigners were among the wounded or dead. He had no details on how the casualties occurred, and it wasn't immediately clear if the toll included people from the traffic accident.

The riot was the worst in Kabul since U.S.-led forces ousted the Taliban in late 2001. It erupted in the city's northern suburbs before spreading into the city center and then to other areas frequented by foreigners, including areas near U.S. and NATO bases.

The unrest started after three U.S. Humvees coming into the city from the outskirts rammed into a rush-hour traffic jam, hitting several civilian cars, witnesses said.

The coalition said at least one person was killed and six injured in the crash, but police said at least three people were killed and 16 injured.

A Kabul police chief, Sher Shah Usafi, said another person was killed when U.S. troops fired into a crowd of stone-throwing protesters soon after the crash.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/05/29/afghan.riots.ap/index.html”

“USA is a 9/11 terrorist sympathiser.”

“Karzai: War not getting at terrorism cause By TINI TRAN, Associated Press Writer
Fri Jun 23, 4:37 PM ET

KABUL, Afghanistan - One of America's closest allies says the war on terrorism fails to address its root causes.

Full story:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060623/ap_on_re_as/afghan_karzai;_ylt=AhAnUvzvf0wrBcWZAPH_ZV0UewgF;_ylu=X3oDMTA3b3JuZGZhBHNlYwM3MjE-
last edited: 6/23/06 8:47:34 PM”