Question for Lyndy or other Jerseyites

“Am heading down towards Jersey later this month with a friend for some camping. Unfortunately, time, other commitments, and logistics limit us to camping somewhere in southern Jersey - hardly America's unspoiled wilderness. I've heard the Pine Barrens are nice, if flat, and I've always wanted to meet the Jersey Devil, 'specially after X-Files portrayed him (them) in such a nice light.

You guys know of any trails down there where we could bp and camp for two or three nights and feel like we were actually out somewhere? I've got online info on the Batona trail, but no maps, yet, and it seems like a possibility. Any other options and/or map sources for this trip, or am I looking for something that just doesn't exist?”

“The only trail I have hiked there is the Batona...

It's about 50 miles and verrrry flat. It's a nice trail and does give the feeling of seclusion in many places (until you cross a road). There are designated camping locations that you need to call ahead to arrange for. The rangers are pretty strict on permits.

Here's a link:

Wharton State Forest”

“Thanks, I'll check it out.”

“Sorry Steiny, but I know nothing about that area except the story about the Jersey Devil. M&M camps there a lot, you could email her at memoulder@comcast.net and see if she has any good details for you.”

“Hey there, Steiny. I know of a few trails in north Jersey, but other than that, I don't know much about this state, even though I live here. In fact, I try to get the heck out of this armpit of America every chance I get and that's why I mostly the hike the Catskills or elsewhere. :-)”

“Hmmmm, where's Stikmon, Joisey boy that he is?? I know he mentioned the Pine Barrens to me.”

“Artex is going to become a Maineite instead of a Jerseyite. I would choose an Amstelite.”

“Yo Artex - We're gonna be starting out from Surf City on Long Beach Island. What would we be looking at for a drive up to NW Jersey? Two or three hours? And what do you recommend as possibilities up there? I know of the Cannonball Trail 'cause I drive under it every time I go south, and of corse, the AT. What else y'all got to offer in the Garden State? I s'pose I could always hike Newark if I wanted real desolation.”

“There is actually a trail that starts in Newark and heads west into the less developed parts of the state.

I've never hiked in the Pine Barrens because that part of the state is just too flat. I'd go for the AT anywhere between the Delaware Water Gap and High Point. You'll probably be surprised how pretty it is. The only downside is that fires aren't allowed - even in winter. You're talking about ~2.5 hours from Long Beach Island.”

“isn't it a little late in the day for you to start drinking, Lyndy?
8)”

“It heck getting old, Lyra. You should try it sometime. I only talk about drinking beer, as I sip my coffee.”

“i'm already an old lady! i was asleep before midnight on New Year's Eve, LOL.”

“From what I know, that sounds about right for the drive time, but I'd defer to others who have lived in Jersey longer, like Violin or LyndyS, who would probably have a better sense.

As for NW Jersey, I've hiked part of the AT there, around High Point State Park. Pretty neat area, but beware of the bears, there is a dense population of them there, something you wouldn't really expect in Jersey! I know Pennsy Hiker and Sir Pete have hiked around the area closer to the Delaware Water Gap a bunch, and it sounds like a great area.

A bit further east, Ramapo State Forest is pretty nice also. The Jackson Whites live in the Ramapo Mountains there. They are essentially a band of hillbillies who are 1/3 Dutch Settler, 1/3 Native American, and 1/3 African American (runaway slaves) from way back when. It's no urban legend, they really do exist, but I've yet to see them.

That's about the extent of my Jersey knowledge. Just be careful not to mistake the landfills for mountains. They are everywhere.”

“There is a section of the AT that runs along the border between NJ and NY that might be nice, they have been working on rerouting the trail off the road, and it was completed this fall. Try the NYNJ trail association, they have the details and can make recommendations. I think that 2.5 hours is a pretty good estimate, but traffic can greatly increase that. The northwest section of NJ is the only area not heavily populated and that is changing fast. In addition, the bear population has grown all out of proportion to the amount of area available to support them. In 1980 there were 15 bears, in 1999 there was 1000, now there are believed to be 1400 or more. South Jersey has grown dramatically in population over that last ten years. The highways tend to choke up fast.

I have never heard of the Jackson Whites. Need to look that one up. The Ramapo mountains are beautiful, I have been horseback riding up there, but not hiking yet. Don't know about the camping there.”

“You don't want to run into the Jackson Whites. They make bacpac seem sociable.”

“Yeah, I've heard crazy stories about the Jackson Whites. They've allegedly sabotaged people's property who live close to the mountains there. I've also heard of a lot of inbreeding, which only adds to the mystique. I thought this kind of thing only happened in Kentucky, yet it's only about 15-20 minutes away from me! :-)”

“Oh now you've done it, the Kentucky folks are not going to be happy.

I've lived here a long time but I've never heard this story. Bizarre! Must do research.”

“A google search should reveal more on the Jackson Whites. "Wierd NJ" magazine did an article on them a few years ago. Ever hear of that publication? It's great!”

“Here is a story written by someone who is familiar with the Jackson Whites. It is a really good read.

http://www.netstrider.com/documents/whites/

link”

“Well did anyone read this story?”

“i've started it, Lyndy! i'm a sucker for Weird.”

“No.

Can a homey get a summary?”

“I read that story a few years back, it's a good one. I was doing research on them for a documentary I was going to help a friend of mine with about the Jackson Whites, but she moved to Cali and I didn't have the motivation to take on the project by myself.”

“the section "The Jackson Whites" will only take you a minute to read, Violin! it sums it up pretty well.”

“Violin's first remark about bacpac surprised me; I thought that he had other info portraying the group differently than the site I linked to.”

“Here's a NJ site:

www.weirdnj.com

No mention of the Jackson Whites that I could find in quick scan, but y'all got some pretty weird sh*t down there. Could be all the years of toxic waste. Only state I've been in where you could actually see the air.

I've heard some strange stuff about the JWs over the years - a la "Deliverance". Could be urban myth, but who knows.

We've got over 2000 bears here west of the CT River, but then again, we've got a lot less people. 65,000 in my whole county, and most of them in two towns. Haven't been urbanized yet, (the bears, not the people - wait, the people, too) so they're a lot less trouble.”

“The only information I had on the group was secondhand, LyndyS. They are apparently very suspicious of ‘outsiders’. The story you linke to gives a little insight as to why that might be.”

“Steiny, I have an extra map (not laminated) for Wharton SF and the Batona trail. E-mail me, if you want it.
AmyG@backpacker.com”

“Thanks, AmyG. Just sent you an e.”

“You don't want to run into the Jackson Whites. They make bacpac seem sociable."
Violin
10:20:34 AM
01/08/03

I read the story from LyndyS's link.
I hope you made the above statement in jest. It is a very racist statement.”

“I'm thinking that the story in my link is one story among many, and there were probably some Jackson Whites who made a scary impression that became part of the oral history of the region. The legend of hermit-like people and inbreeding is probably what Violin was referring to without really knowing that the Jackson Whites were considered a racially different group or African related group.”

“I happen to be racially mixed myself StoveStomper, so you're way off base. Its easy to form a wrong impression from a few words.”

“The term "Jackson Whites" in itself is actually pretty racist. I read somewhere that the name was possibly derived from "Jacks and Whites", and through time it just evolved into the name as we know it today. The term "Jacks" used to be a racially derogative term for African Americans back in the day.”

“I'm a mix too, violin.
I'm not calling you a racist, just pointing out your statement was very questionable (very Trent Lottish).
The "Jackson Whites" are a mix of African American, Dutch, and Native American. The US Gov considers them African American. The local NJ people treat them like dirt.”

“SS - Someone I work with had a job to do up there. He was surrounded by dozens of people and felt very threatened. Nothing happened but he was shaken. I don't care if they are white, black, blue or purple - they freaked him out - that's all.”

“See now I've lived within 30 minutes of the Ramapo area for the last 18 years and I've never heard of this group of people. I also never would have guessed that Jackson Whites was a racially derogative label, and I've lived in NJ for over 30 years. I went to high school in a racially mixed town. Racial issues were discussed in my house in terms of politics, not in the way of learning to sling epithets. So I have been in trouble before by being ignorant of common slurs.”

“got it, Steiny.
:o)”

“So Steiny, did we mess up this thread bad enough?”

“Hell, no. I wouldn't expect anything less from tt, and it's getting me a map, as well. I'll let y'all know when, if, and where the trip is taking place and maybe we can hook up somewhere. Logistics of leaving home in winter with wood heat takes a little pre-planning.

Off to shovel last night's three inches. Just keeps piling up. The last two nights have been wetter snow - think I might build myself an igloo this weekend and move out to it.”

“I grew in this area and heard stories about them while growing up. As a teenagers my friends and I would drive up in to the hills where they live and wonder if bad things would happen to us, of course nothing ever did we just saw people going about their business, also as a teenager we would often hike and backpack in the area and never had a problem. I was up there just a few months ago because one of my coworkers saw an add for some land for sale close to our office (I work in the area) and asked me if I knew where the street was, it turned out to be up in the hill area so I took him up there to look at the property. The area is still very run down almost impoverished looking. In recent years the group has been trying to get Federal recognition as a Native American tribe. The fear of other locals is that if they succeed they would try to open a casino. I think their isolation and of being wary of strangers gave rise to many urban myths. I wonder how long their community up there can survive with million dollar homes going up around them. The area would be a gold mine as an exclusive neighborhood.”

“Did we veer wildly off topic again?

How far are you thinking of hiking steiny? Will you be taking more than one vehicle so you can avoid backtracking? Overnight stays on the AT in NJ require that you go from point A to point B to keep out keggers. I could look at my AT maps and give you a couple of ideas if you’d like.”