Savage Gulf...the abortion

“Bitpusher and I went to Savage Gulf this past Friday intending to hike from Greeter Falls to Savage ranger station via the Greeter, Big Creek Gulf, Connector, Collins Gulf, South Rim and Savage Day Loop trails, about 27 miles (not counting side trips) in 3 days.
We arrived at Savage ranger station at about 8:30 a.m. on Friday morning, filed our 'flight plan' at the office, left my car there and took bitpusher's truck to the Greeter parking lot, where we loaded up and hit the trail about 9:00. We had a great hike to Sawmill campground, arriving there about 3 P.M. Much to my surprise, the Stone Door ranger was waiting for us. After commenting that we had put in some good mileage that day, he informed me that he had some bad news for us. Overnight parking is not allowed at the Greeter parking lot due to frequent (read, daily) break-ins and vandalization of vehicles left unattended for any length of time. Since it was my trip and my responsibility that bit had parked his truck there, I volunteered to go with the ranger to move it. He then informed me that he would not be able to bring me back. As I did not relish the idea of hiking 9 miles in the dark, we elected to with the ranger to Greeter and drive bit's truck over to Collins West, where we would camp for the night, and continue our trek in the morning. Now, I'm very disappointed that we wouldn't be able to hike the section between Sawmill and Collins which, IMHO, is some of the most scenic in the Gulf but, excrement happens, get over it.
We set up camp, gathered firewood and soon had a fire going that would have been visible from Pluto. We ate our supper, after which I pulled out the Maker's Mark and bitpusher produced a couple of Puros Indios #2 Especiales. Yep, we were really roughing it.
It was getting really cold, so we stoked the fire and poured a little more bourbon. At around 10:30 we retired for the evening. bit to his tarp and I to my Hennessy hammock (more on the hammock later).
When I got up Saturday morning, my water filter had frozen in my pack and the hanging water bag was a solid chunk of ice. Bitpusher commented that it was too cold to be enjoyable and that he had been miserable all night. He asked me if I was going to continue and I replied by asking him if he was ready to pack it in. When he replied to the affirmative, I told him he'd get no argument from me. AFTER the sun came up, bitpusher's thermometer indicated 16 degrees. That's pretty damn cold for this neck of the woods. We packed up and headed for the truck. We picked up my car at Savage and informed the ranger that we were off the trail. We then headed to Manchester to the Craker Barrel where I proceeded to stuff myself on the Country Boy breakfast.
Not a bad ending for an aborted trip.
Now, about that hammock. First of all, I'd like to commend Tom Hennessy for creating such a fine product. That thing is so comfortable to sleep in that I told Mother Goose that I was thinking of setting it up in our bedroom (THAT idea was not well-received, lol). The problem is maintaining an acceptable comfort level in cold weather. I had tested the hammock in my back yard in sub-freezing temps, but nothing like we encountered this past weekend. I had my North Face 20 degree Blue Kazoo XL (for the extra shoulder width), fleece pants, Polar Tec 300 socks, Land's End polyester thermal underwear, windproof fleece gloves and jacket and a fleece balaclava. I put a foil-faced truck windshield reflector, purchased at Wally World, under my bag and crawled in for a long winter's nap. In spite of the discovery that I couldn't zip my bag up all the way while wearing the jacket, I was toasty and warm...temporarily, that is. Several times during the night, I was awakened by a cold sensation on whatever part of my body was contacting the bottom of the hammock. The reflector was not working as I was employing it. Still, I got as much or more sleep as if I had been on the ground in a tent and I didn't ache in the morning. I shall have to work on the reflector thing.
Another piece of gear I would like to comment on is my new Brasslite Solo stove. This unit takes the Pepsi can stove to another level. Sgt Rock has done a thorough review of this product on his website, so I won't elaborate here. Suffice it to say that Aaron Rosenblum has produced a superior product which I expect to use for many years to come.
Bitpusher and I are now ready to accept all the well-deserved, good-natured ribbing from all you Yankees who are used to cold weather. ;-)”

“A couple of corrections. What I have, evidently, is the Brasslite Duo (the Solo has been discontinued). My apologies to Aaron Rosenbloom for misspelling his name. Check out his website at www.brasslite.com.”

“hmmmm... Just the reflector underneath the bag, eh? No thermarest, ridgerest, z-rest... ? I also tend to wear the down boots to bed in weather like that.

Remember... ice freezes on overpasses first, <grin>”

“Yeah Tilt, I know. There have been many experiments by others in the attempt to find a solution to the problem of cold weather hammock habitation. In my experience, the ThermARest slides around too much (mine actually ended up on top of me during one experiment).”

“Good report FG...here are my additions.

I saw a lot of Savage Gulf that I hadn't seen before, much beautiful scenery and history. We saw Greeter Falls and another one, the name of which I can't remember. We also saw Cator Savage cabin, and took a good look at that. The Savage Gulf area is definitely on my list of places to see again.

In retrospect, if I had done one or two more things differently, I would probably have been okay. My mistakes were as follows:

1) Pitched my tarp in such a way that the wind was able to go through it. I'm fairly certain that a lot of my discomfort was due to the wind passing over me.
Pitching the tarp differently, or taking my tent would have solved this problem, and I would have been warmer.

2) I didn't eat enough. What I brought for dinner that evening didn't taste good, and I only ate about half of it. I ate a pack of cheese crackers as well, but it still wasn't enough. If I had eaten one of my balance bars as well, or kept one in my bag with me, I would have been warmer.

3) I didn't wear the fleece pants that I had brought to bed. About 5:30AM, I got up to answer the call of nature. Since the fleece pants were right there, I pulled them on. Amazingly, I was warm again almost instantly. When I got back into the bag, (my Campmor down 0F) I warmed up enough to fall back to sleep. If I had just put them on when I got in my bag originally, I probably would have been fine.

So, I made almost every mistake you can make in cold-weather camping, short of falling in a creek and sleeping on a windy, exposed rock face.

But it was still better than a day in the office!”

“p.s....I did joke with Father Goose that if I got up the next morning and he was a "Goosesicle", I'd have to leave him there and go get the rangers, since I wouldn't be able to drag him that far myself!”

“You got a lotta balls using a hammock in those temps. I don't use my hammock if it's below 45 degrees.
I've camped out in sub 0 degree temps before and it's not that bad if your ready for it. Sounds like yall learned some valuable lessons for cold weather camping. I learned many of my lessons the hard way too.
I've heard about all the break-ins at Greeter Falls parking lot. They have even done stake outs and have not been able to catch anyone yet. I'd have warned you about it if I'd have known your plan. The safest places to park are at the Ranger Stations.”

“You're right WD. Until I figure it out, it's a tent for me in anything below 30 degrees.”

“The other Falls yall saw was prolly Ranger Falls.”

“Nah, WD, it's the falls at the other end of the Greeter loop. Dammit, the name escapes me at the moment as well.”

“The ranger was extremely apologetic about the situation at Greeter, especially since the lady at the Savage Station had okay'ed our plan. The supervisor had actually tried to catch us, but couldn't. The Stone Door ranger kept apologizing for "ruining our trip," but I assured him that having my truck broken into would have ruined the trip, not having to move it to so it wouldn't get broken into.”

“Boardtree Falls, Hah!”

“I was gonna guess breakwind, lol...”

“Boardtree Falls is the only other one I can think of. Was that it?”

“Ooooops. I see you already figured it out.”

“Yes that was it. I got a pic of it, but it will be a while before my pics are developed and up.”

“Yeah, there was a lot of wind-breakin' goin' on, espescially after I ate the red beans and rice, lol!







I think it's the red onion that does it to me...”

“I am going to do this hike again next month if anyone is interested. We'll leave from Stone Door, though.”

“Am I correct in assuming that Savage Gulf is somewhere in the "Smokies"? What is the elevation?
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There have been several aborted winter TT trips because of cold weather. I think several years ago OM organized a group to go to the Shining Rock Wilderness Area in Pisgah Nation Forest. She/They planned the weekend of October 31st because it was Fall and a full moon. The only trouble was the Shining Rock is at 6000+ feet.
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On October 31st Fall is over in the Shining Rock. It's Winter there! All the leaves are gone at this elevation and you had better be prepared for the cold, the rain and/or snow, and the strong winds. Needless to say after one night they beat a hasty retreat down to Brevard for some hot coffee! Am I right OM?
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As a minimum Smokies campers need:
1)Good quality rain gear
2)10-15 degree bag.
3)A bag ain't worth crap without insulation under it! Thermarest or foam.
4)At least a 3 season tent, better yet a convertable to 4 season. You guys have been reading way too much Ray Jardine.
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Oh yeah, go read Amy G's "Freeze Yer A$$ OFF III" thread.”

“A couple of years ago I lead a TT Through hike trip out there. 40 miles in 4 days.
1st night was at Alum Gap
2nd night was at Collins Gulf
3rd night was at Hobbs Cabin

We did all the side trips too. It was a blast.”

“Savage Gulf ain't in the Smokys.”

“No, Savage Gulf isn't in the Smokies. I would guess the elevation to be around 1400' or so, given its location. We just got caught by colder than expected temps. The forecasts for the area were calling for about 25F at night. We were prepared for 25F, just not 15F.”

“And for having read Ray Jardine, you're wrong, solitary hiker. I've never read a word of his. I would consider taking a 4 season tent for this location to be extreme overkill, unless I was expecting heavy snow.

I resent your implication that we were foolishly underprepared.”

“I was on that Shining Rock trip. It was loads of fun even though most everyone elected to head down off the mountain. We were able to enjoy backpacking in the mountains and camping out one night out but we still had great fun spending time together at the "Cold Mountain Approach Shelter".
On that trip the temps were in the single digits and the wind was cutting through pretty good too. Fire felt very good.”

“The elevation on the rim is about 1800 at Savage Gulf.”

“So where is Savage Gulf? <G>”

“I too, have never read a word written by Ray Jardine, or anybody else's 'backpacking manifesto' either. I wanted to see how my new Ultra Light A-Sym would perform under field conditions in cold weather, and now I know. And I still think I can make it work.
I don't resent SH's implication because he was obviously speaking from ignorance.”

“It's North of Monteagle TN. Bersheba Springs. Look for South Cumberland.
I can send you a map in you want one.”

“Tilt: here...”

“Send me you address and I'll mail you a map.
walkindude32@comcast.net”

“Thanks.

Hmm... northwest of Chattanooga... I was thinking it might be in northern Alabama for some reason. I guess I wasn't tooooo far off, <G>”

“It might as well be in Northern Alabama, as close as it is. It's a really nice destination.”

“I didn't mean to imply that you didn't have fun. What I got out of the trip report is that it was cold enough at that elevation to seek mild weather at lower elevations after one night. The reason I didn't go on that Shining Rock trip is because I've backpacked the area in early November. I know what it's like.
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Father Goose and bitpusher,
My apology for not knowing where Savage Gulf is. That's why I asked.
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As far as me speaking from ignorance on the other parts of my post you're wrong. My statement on what you need to take with to go Winter camping in the Smokies is deadnuts on. That you guys were camping at an elevation of only 1400 feet proves my point.
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Now as far as using a reflective blanket as insulation under your bag or using a tarp in the wintertime .... Well I would bet that many at TT are thinking .... hmmm I'm trying to be diplomatic here .... but the word boneheaded comes to mind.
Sorry.”

“A convertable tent is only overkill IF you don't get caught in a bad winter rain or snow storm.

signed,
an ignorant fool who sleeps warm and dry.”

“i tried the reflective blanket as a bottom lining in the hennessey once during a cold night at Lost Cove....i am not sure if it "would" have worked...it just made the most annoying crinkling , crunching foil noise that i wadded it up at once and threw it out. I do not use the hammock below mid 30's.

ya Solitary hiker...that shining rocks trip was the coldest i have ever been backpacking in. Funny, the following week after everyone left was gorgeous! two years previous, i spent the third week in oct(full moon) there solo for 5 days, clear all week until the last night, when the wind came up and snow clouds, i packed up in my tent all thru the night and hiked out as it snowed at the crack of dawn.

if i cannot use my stove and get hot water..or my water bottle freezes... this gator is outta there!!”

“It's easy to sleep warm and dry when you never leave your house, solitary hiker...”

“I've used the hennessy at 15 degrees and been fine. I took my wal-mart reflector and mt 25 degree down bag and then i had my mummy bag liner. I wore my capilene and fleece pj's to bed with my wind-stopper hat and 1 pair of smartwools.

I stayed pretty toasty as long as I kept the fly somewhat open for moisture to escape.”

“Let me know if you guys go back next month...maybe I can get away and head up there with you.

I'll try not to be a bonehead.”

“You're all nuts, lol! Camping in this freakin' cold! I went for a hike today and it was one degree!

No grief from me, I'dve gone home too.”

“Winter backpacking is the Best!”

“You're right about that. Unfortunately my bag nights count was zero this past year. But that had to do more my line of work work, my family, other hobbies, and a home and cars that need to be maintained. I'm fortunate that I live close to the mountains of SC and NC, so dayhiking is a good alternative to overnighters. On a clear day I can see Black Balsam Knob (which is in the Shining Rock) from an overpass on the freeway near where I live. It's about 40 miles away as the crow flies. I go up there, hike and fish, and then come home to a nice dinner and a warm bed.
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Finally guys quit being so sensitive. You screwed up royally, (probably worse than anyone on TT ever before) BUT you learned from it. Right? Fellow TTers pointed out the error of your ways. Got you moving on the right path, etc.
And next time things will go better. Ain't no big deal. BTY, don't thank me, that's what buds are for.”

“I don't know about you SH, but I don't equate enduring a small amount of discomfort to 'screwing up royally'. Had I been hiking solo, I would have continued on and been fine. As for the reflector, I did not pioneer the idea and it has been tried by many others with varying results. As I said, I experienced some discomfort but not as much as when sleeping on a ThermARest pad in warm weather.
From your posts,I gather that you gain the bulk of your exercise from jumping to conclusions. BTW, just what is it that we are supposed to not thank you for???”

“Last night we were out in Harriman (see trip report) and it was 10 degrees. What a blast.
Just a suggestion for ya goose, before you go to bed boil your water and take it into the sleeping bag with ya. Not only does the water stay hot for a long time and make you warmer but it definitely won't be frozen when you get up!”

“Yeah, a water jug in the ol' sack is a good idea. Fortunately, the spring was nearby, so fresh (unfrozen) water was not a concern. I am going to try my old high-density foam pad in the hammock and see how that works. I suspect it will have less tendancy to slide around than the ThermARest.
I agree, winter packing is the best. I just need to find the best way to make the hammock work when it's cold.”

“I took my hammock with me out west last year where it was in the teens and used a foam pad under my bag. I liked to have froze to death. Binkly is either warm blooded or just hard core in his. I was lucky a buddy of mine carried a two person tent so I could get some sleep. I love my hammock but freezing sucks.”

“One item I am curious about - how did y'all get the block of ice out of the water bag?”

“Hmmm!”

“we all hike a hike!BIG woods out there. Glad we do not all do it the same way.
OH SH-WHO is this Ray Jardine?? I was there at shinin rocks for 2 VERY COLD nights with 20+mph winds. We voted and agreed NOT to camp at shinnin Rocks.”

“I have "upgraded" to the Thermorest Luxury (LE I think) for a full 2" of dead space. In backyard tests to 25 degrees in my HH Safari Ultralight Asym I was quite comfy. ( You gotta try this Safari thing. It is WAY more comfortable than my old Backpacker Ultralight Asym)I am using a 20 degree Blue Kazoo knock off from Blue Ridge Mountain Sports and do not own any fleece pants. I had capilene long underwear and a fleece vest, no gloves, good socks, a fleece hat and a Nalgene filled with boiling water and strategically placed. I also kept (but did not use) a fleece jacket (200 weight) a rain suit (thinking I may have to improvise a sort of vapor barrier suit) a coolmax bag liner, a relective blanket and two sets of hand and feet warmers handy JUST IN CASE. I slept great. The trick is too keep the pad under you. I think I am getting pretty good at moving the pad with the bag but have been condsidering the following:

What about a lightweight bivy (Mountain Hardware Conduit SL) with a pad inside the bivy. That way, if you move, it all moves with you.

Finally, have you seen the "peapod" sleeping bag which wraps around the exterior of the hammock at hammockcamping.com. This, along with an internal bag and a Hennessy hammock would be the answer.”

“man, what a trip about the truck thing. weird that they made you move it, but like you said, getting broken into would have ruined your trip too. i did not enjoy sleeping in the cold but i am willing to try some more to perfect the art. not gonna be in a hammock in cold temps though...like tilt said, the bridges freeze first.”