pssst...Winter BP Secrets

“Every Winter that I've hiked/backpacked, I have always learned something new. I thought it would be great to share some ideas here, since everybody does their thing a little different.

Some of my musts for Winter-

*toe warmers inside down booties, for lounging around the campfire with friends...bliss!
*hot water bottle in the sack with me
*foam sleeping pad, not thermarest
*candle lantern with deflector, hanging in the tent all night to keep condensation at bay (no more snowing inside the tent!)

I know that *some* people use pee bottles. Heck, some people put butter in their cocoa (and Kahlua).

What do you do to make Winter camping more enjoyable?”

“Plenty of insulation for me. Down or synthetic parka, Thinsulate or thick fleece pants, polarguard booties with overbooties and a VB suit if it's below zero. I hate being cold so I bring enough clothes so I know I won't be. It makes for a big pack as anyone that was hiked with me knows. I never used handwarmers and never make a fire unless I'm hiking with TTer's.”

“I know what you mean about the big pack in Winter...hence the birth of the gear sled! ;o)

I've never tried the vapor barrier thing...but then again, I really don't care much for below zero. Been there, dont that...BRRRRR”

“Get up and go pee as soon as you have to....don't try to wait it out. The guys at Siera Designs told tarabull that it's harder to stay warm with a full bladder. It does seem to make a difference.”

“I don't backpack anymore but I like some of your idea's AmyG. I live in the Catskills, so I can hike anywhere & out in a day. Sometimes a lonng day. I do a lot of the Adirondacks the same way with the exception of canoe trips.

I love the chem heat packs, but prefer the larger 4x6" size. Great for a sleeping bag, to drop in your shirt pocket or on your spine.
I know the whole world loves a campfire, but I rarely had one as it limited my nightvision. The exception was wintercamping. I'd be afraid of a water bottle or any liquid in the sleeping bag with me. I'd rather have them freeze then leak in my lifeline. My old bones LIKE thermarest, but a foam pad under that is nice also. I used to set my tent (selfsupporting) up in the leanto's because it used to be rare to see others in winter. I like the "space" blankets year round as a ground cloth. Never liked the candle lantern much (which I switched to oil) but I really like the idea to keep the "snow" out. I'm kinda partial to the dark though. I never used a pee bottle. Actually, the more you pee around the outside of your tent, the less critters you'll attract. I'll have to try butter in cocoa but never saw any of my relatives in kailua mention it. Love crampons. Love Fleece. Love fleece sweatbands.Love thorlo socks. Like 50/50 cotton/poly mix for clothing. Comfortable, cheap & dries fast.Love GPS in UTM. Love an AM/FM w/earbuds. Love my little olympus camera but may try digital.Love my caribou day pack. Tried, but don't like the water bladders.Love collapsible hiking sticks & half finger gloves. Love baby wipes.Love mini-mag flashlights but now have an LED backup. Don't like headlamps. I'd rather use the elastic strap for the mini-mag if I need both hands.Loved my lexan fork but now trying a titanium spork.I carry multiple compasses. One on my watchband because I get turned around on mountaintops. (rarely use the trails) I like to tether (cord) some things that are important like my car keys, swiss army knife,(best)compass & whistle. I've found lost people lose their voice first. Love parachute chord*. Love ultrapods (sm tripod for camera).Just a gearhead.”

“pee will warm your fingers”

“Cats - awesome! Thanks. I just learned about that space blanket - ground cloth idea. How novel! I will be purchasing a better space blanket soon. ;)

Dare and I just got the titanium sports too...our whole cookset is now much lighter than before.

Thanks to Adventurist for the Walmart suggestion, I went there and got 2 insulated soup mugs. They are like the travel coffee mugs, but they are shorter and fatter - we ate every meal from them and had our drinks too. I am amazed at how long they kept everything HOT. $3.95 at Walmart, folks!
>:D”

“sports=sporks”

“One thing I need to emphasize is Do Not Sweat!

If you are hiking along and you are sweating way too much then stop and take something off.

I noticed the other day when were hiking back I left my insulating layer on over my thermals...

As soon as we walked 5 minutes I started to sweat! I would been just fine with my shirt and the shell over it. What works fine in camp is too much when you start moving.

Also in the winter it is very important to keep items conveniently packed. Keep your insulating layer right at the top of your pack. Keep extra gloves, hats, whatever you might need to throw on if you are too cold within reach.

One item that I recently purchase that I was extremely happy with were coolmax sleeping bag liners for our bags. They are worth every penny!

I think camp shoes/booties are a must. Make sure you keep your boots from freezing overnight by keeping them warm overnight. I noticed that the trend seems to be to boil water, put it in the Nalgene bottles, then put the Nalgene bottles in your boots to warm them before you put them in your sleeping bag with you for the night.

I think the main rule for winter is that to plan the whole trip around COMFORT, NOT how lightwight can I be or how many miles can I get in....

Plan low mileage, bring lots of food, and stay warm!

I feel the advantage of winter is that you can make a basecamp and explore in an area that you wouldn't be able to navigate in the summer.

STAY WARM!”

“Yeah those insulated mugs are great! We use them all year round and keep them hanging on the back of our pack. They double as bowl/mug!

Some people might not like the weight but I like the fact that your food stays warm while you start cooking something else.”

“I'm still learning, but AmyG underscored a lot of things I've learned so far. The hot water in a Nalgene bottle is sheer heaven, that's for darn sure! I'm going to have to try the candle lantern thing next.”

“Leave the bug dope at home.

Wear liner gloves under your heavier gloves in bitter cold, it keeps your hands warm when you have to remove the heavy gloves to do fine work. With practice you can do just about everything.

If you use boots with felt pac type liners, pull the liners out and put them in the sleeping bag at night.

Damp clothes, especially synthetics like polypro, fleece etc., will dry from your body heat, given time. Cotton, of course, sucks in the cold and doesn't dry well.

Thorlo Expedition socks are the warmest around.

Start off cold or cool when you start hiking, you'll warm up and sweat less. Put on more clothes the minute you stop, don't wait to start feeling cool.

Use lights as little as possible. With practice, you'll see more with the natural light and reduce the tunnel vision effect of a light. Of course, with a new moon there isn't much natural light.”

“Don't sweat is excellent advice! However for me, sweating is a given - unless I'm hiking nekkid or it's temps like it was on Sunday (1 degree/-19 w/wind chill) I'm gonna sweat.”

“Everybody sweats, even in cold temps. The key is to sweat at a slower rate than evaporation can remove the sweat. ;-)”

“wear a hat when you go to bed.

eat something before you go to bed.

warm your isobutane before you cook by putting the cannister in your jacket.

eat something before you go to bed.”

“Stinkey McPherson doesn't sweat.......he perspires....”

“I sweat alot too. I just make sure I keep stripping off layers or I dress light no matter how cold. I heat up really fast so I dont pile on cloths until I stop for the night.”

“STAY HYDRATED!!!

Your body needs just as much or more water in the winter.”

“great tips, but I have one question: how in the He11 do you pee in a water bottle as a woman??
(had to run about 2 times to the bathroom at the tc2, right after I just got comfy.”

“I almost forgot about the most important thing for winter backpacking. Be in the best shape that you can before you hit the trail. Winter backpacking is a lot more demanding on your body than warmer conditions. Moving through snow with a heavier pack on snowshoes, skis or postholing is much harder and you'll enjoy it much more if you aren't suffering. Train with a loaded pack as much as you can and even use ankle weights to strengthen your legs to prepare them for the extra weight of winter boots and snowshoes. This makes a huge difference on how much you'll enjoy the trip and your body will be more efficient on the trail. If your only basecamping you can get away with less training, but for moving day after day with your loaded pack through the snow it's a must to show up in good shape to have fun.”

“Training for sure.”

“my best winter secret is stay home till the temps goes over 60 during the day, 40 at night.....”

“cotton kills, cotton kills,
I use the little hand warmers to stuff down in my boots early in the morning, so they're warming up while I tool around camp in my down booties. Good to review these things, heading up to about 5000 ft Friday-Sat and supposed to be around 0 at night, ahhhh the smokies how I miss them, can't wait.”

“Nalgene bottles are a must, I learned that at Loyalsock. Got 2 on order as we speak and am scrapping the platypus.

A separate insulated mug/bowl for all your meals and drinks. With dehydrated food, you can put your lunch in it in the morning with the proper amount of boiling water, and when you stop for lunch you have a nice warm meal instead of snacks. This works for cooking at dinner too and the best part, no burnt food in your pot and all you clean is the cup/bowl.

More clothes, less tent. My tent is too big for 1 person to warm so I leave it at home now and just set the fly. With the weight I save it allows me to take a few more dri-fit, or an extra fleece and I'm nice and toasty in my bag.

Keep your feet dry! Use walmart bags to tie over your socks, inside your boots, this worked wonders and kept jmitch dry all weekend. Cheap too!

Be realistic about your mileage. Winter offers you more opportunities to see things you wuold pass up in the summer as you speed by. Accept the slower pace so you can enjoy each day by not pushing yourself.

AmyG-do you notice a significant difference between the foam and thermarest in winter? And are you talking about the foam mats you can get at walmart?”

“I have a weird one for ya....it's a pre-BP'ing tip

I suffer from terribly dry skin in the winter and the BP'ing absolutely kills....so, before heading out, I put olive oil on my skin (yes, I know, sounds really bizarre). If you are laughing - you should try it for your next trip - keeps the skin super soft and protected, and eliminates the need to carry lotion(not that I have!)

okay - yuk it up!!!”

“bet you'de sautee up real nice like that twinkle.....”

“I'll keep that in mind for our next trip, Twinkles. I can wipe my bread on your arm for some added flavor.”

“Hey, I've done that at home Twinkle toes. It does work, but makes the shower a slippery hazard for the next person. Poor Birch. ;)”

“French Fried Twinkle Toes... Yum Yum! Put that in your Wal Mart insulated mug for extra flavor!!”

“yeah - very funny guys! laugh it up :)

harrdiharrharr”

“-Keep your water bottles from freezing at night by burying them under about 2 feet of snow.
-Pack the snow down sufficiently with your boots where you're setting your tent up. Then ski-pack the area to get it flat. The better you pack it, the flatter the spot will stay.

-Remember the sun screen!”

“I wouldn't wear 100% cotton denim, but a 50/50 mix has gotten me thru 35 years of year round hiking. I've watched people break thru the ice over gorges, go over waterfalls in march & drop thru the ice in spring. The 50/50 mixture dries fast. 100% cotton will never dry. I've tried a lot of different synthetic pants & most retain too much moisture. Haven't tried the heavy money pants yet, but why should I when the 50/50 serves me well? I hike with an open 300wt fleece jacket & sweatband. (I sweat a LOT) When I stop for a break, I throw on a Marmot goosedown parka.”

“Olive oil on skin isn't bizarre, it's a natural emollient - also works to condition dry hair, or mixed with salt can take care of dandruff problems, etc. Be careful though, as you will burn easily (just like frying your skin) even in winter. I always take lotion with sunscreen.

Talking about sweating to non-sweathog types is like talking about backpacking to people in my office. ;)”

“I use a space blanket as ground cloth year round. I have a pretty worn tent and this keeps my knees dry when kneeling in the tent.

Winter tips.
* Mitts keep hands much warmer than gloves. I have fleece mitts and waterproof overmitts. Generally only use the overmitts while hiking, but hands sure warm up fast when using both.
* Fleece balaclava, keep the ears, chin and neck warm.
* Ski goggles, protect my eyes from snow glare and wind. Much better protection than glasses.

Amy
* 2 water bottles in the bag at night. 2 is better than 1. Actually I just like to have 2 liters of water available all the time in Winter. I use 1 Nalgene and 1 large top soda bottle (Canadian Dry Bitter Lemon). I have mesh bag on a leash and carry the soda bottle in my jacket while hiking so I can drink without taking the pack off.

* always save a little water to start the pot for melting snow. Get the water hot BEFORE you add the snow.
* Take twice the fuel you would use for the same number of days in Summer.
* Boil water or ice before snow it uses much less fuel.
* For more than 2 days melting snow, a heat exchanger saves more than its weight in fuel.
* Floorless tent weighs much less than a tent with a floor. There are no bugs in Winter, and you can wear the crampons inside. Love my Megamid (3.5Lbs). A Silnylon tarp may be even better. This only works for below treeline camping, above treeline you need something that can take the wind.

* A crampon pouch pays for its weight when you have to put them on/off in wind. Also prevents holes in stuff.

* A small pad of Homeosote to insulate the stove from going to China when cooking on deep snow. This is used as additional crampon point protection in the crampon pouch. Homeosote is a sort of really thick cardboard often used for model train tables.

* never wear crampons without gaitors. The gaitors help prevent holes in your leg if/when you take a fall. This is a good thing.

* use the compass when you do not need it. Magnetic deviation is great in theory, but local iron deposits can change bearings considerably. Take bearings both back and forward and be aware of general line of travel. When you do need the compass you will not have any landmarks to check against, and it may be too windy or too wet to use the map.

* A LED lamp is inadequate for breaking trail at night. Sorry to lose the 150 hrs/battery set. Back to a light that gives distance.
* Keep spare batteries in an inside pocket to keep them warm, nothing worse than replacing dead batteries with frozen batteries.

No candle lamp in my tent, just not worth the risk for me.

* Double boots are a good investment if you are going out in Winter a lot. Cheaper than frostbite and if you haunt Sierratradingpost and REI-outlet you can get them for about $100.

* Ice axe is good for setting and removing dead-man tent anchors, digging cat holes, reaching and hooking branches/rocks etc on steep parts, all kinds of things, but do not forget it has only 2 real uses. Belay and self arrest, both of these functions kill someone if they fail. Retire axes if there is any doubt at all that they can stop you.”

“i could definitely tell a difference between using a cell pad and thermarest as far as warmth... was colder with the thermarest... may try the combination of the 2 on my next outing - i don't which i like better... being a little colder... or having a sore back...

ha ha...”

“Here's one little trick I learned. I have a Z-rest foam pad, which is toasty warm. However, it's only 3/4 length, and my feet would get cold at night. So, now I just spread my shell out, outer side down, down at my feet, and it works great.”

“When you bury your platypus water bag in the snow to keep it from freezing, don't remove it by chipping away the frozen snow with a sharp ski pole because you may puncture the bag. (I'm not telling how I know this.)”

“Excellent tips, kids!

Not like I have to repeat this but don't forget the sunblock, sunblock, sunblock. If you're at altitude, plus the snow glare, you will get fried without sunblock. Don't forget the appendages, like ears! Reapply as needed. I like No-Ad 30. Doesn't sting my eyes if sweating profusely and goes on non-greasy.

Lip balm is critical as well. I use either the Rite Aid 30 SPF or Burt's Snow and Sun. Zinc oxide is good too, though a little on the greasy side. You don't have to keep reapplying it tho.

Sunglasses for me, a must. I like to use a cinchable strap with them so they don't fall off in rough terrain, while leaning over or if I take a tumble. I generally don't bring goggles tho if windy and in the powder, they're great. Otherwise, they fog up on me when I'm hiking.

If you have one, a collapsable shovel is the bomb. You can dig out a windbreak, eating area, a shelf to pitch your tent, etc.

Will have to try the foot warmer packets next weekend!”

“There was a discussion about down booties a while back - anybody remember the conventional wisdom on the best deal? Was it something at Campmore? I saw some at REI last week, but they seemed a little heavy, and the soles were sort of a fake suede material - seems like they'd get wet if you walked on snow in them. Any advice appreciated!!”

“The Sierra Designs booties seems like the bomb.

http://www.rei.com/online/store/ProductDisplay?storeId=8000&catalogId=40000008000&productId=47584242&parent_category_rn=4501306”

“Thanks, rosey - those were the ones I saw at REI. I found the bootie thread (bootie thread?!) here. The other ones mentioned were by Mountain Hardwear, and they were about twice the price. I also saw these on the Campmor site - anybody try them?”

“Those Sierra Design booties have a rubber sole tho, no?

Here's the mtn hardwear ones...

http://www.rei.com/online/store/ProductDisplay?storeId=8000&catalogId=40000008000&productId=47597756&parent_category_rn=4501306”

“Thanks again, rosey! Those Mountain Hardwear ones are on sale for 45 bucks! Unfortunately, they don't have the large size. Wonder if the mediums (nominally up to size 9.5) would be OK for my 10.5 feet....”

“Don't push it. Tho you might be able to fit into them, compacting the down would lessen the insulating value of the booties and that means cooooold toes. Get booties that fit!”

“I just bought the Climb High Campmor Down booties... i should get them next week - hopefully by next weekend for my Spence Field trip. Will let you know if I like
'em or not, but they are my first pair so...”

“I have a pair of the Climb High down booties. I love'em! Very cozy. The rubber comes up enough on the sides where snow getting them wet really isn't a problem. Good booties.”

“Rosey - you are my official gear deal finder. Those MH down booties will be at my door next week! Thanks for the tip - $45 is a hell of a deal!”

“wow, lots of good stuff here...thanks everyone!

Hey MartyB-
The ones at Campmor are the Climb High booties. Dare and Artex both have them and they work very well! I agree with Rosey - definitely get booties that fit...if anything, go looser. Down's insulating ability is only optimized when fluffed (allow for extra room for air).”

“The thing I can't figure out is that some use the double pad system. I used to as well, but what change me was this:

I used a therm a rest Ultra lite full (3/4 of padding) and a Ridge rest 3/4 (about 1/2 of padding). I looked around on REI and found out that the Therm a Rest Standard was the same weight as both, was almost a full 1/2 more padding (total of 1 3/4 inches) and had better R-Value than both put together. I have used it in cold conditions and it works better than the combo, one because the pads don't slip off of each other. Not trying to do a convert here, this might be a "just works fer me" thing.....

Please keep the ideas coming! Tons of great info is turning this thread into a keeper....”

“Roach - I actually use both a thermarest (ultralite 3/4) and a Z-rest. I use the Z-rest (foam pad) on the bottom, with the thermarest on top. Thermarest does not provide enough insulation by itself, in my opinion. I have found, in the past, that using only a thermarest leads to having a body imprint in the snow beneath the tent. Surely a sign that mucho heat is being lost...
I also remember having to sleep "rottiserie" style (turning from side to side to keep one side from getting too cold. Z-rest has solved this problem for me. I bet you could use a Walmart or Target foam pad too.

Go Target!
;D”