AT shelter or 4 season tent for winter?

“With temperatures in the single digits, and all other equipment considerations aside, would you stay in an AT shelter and string a tarp across the front or use a 4 season tent? I'd prefer not to lug a 9 lb. tent around, but between that and freezing, I'll take the tent.”

“If there was no windbreak in the AT shelter, I'd definitly want my 4-season tent!”

“?”

“A tent built to hold a snow load. Very Heavy. You can use a 3-season tent all year round, as long as you're not expecting snowfall.”

“You'd have to be NUTS to want to sleep out in the snow. BRRRR.”

“If I had my choice, with those conditions, I'd take a freestanding 3-season tent along with me, and pitch it in the shelter if there was room, if I was expecting snow. Complex enough? If there's not enough room to do that, I'd stay in the shelter, and block as much of the shelter entrance with a tarp, or string my fly up over me somehow.”

“I've stayed in shelters with tarps across the front. The tarp "popping" against the front kept me awake.
Go with a tent if your bags not rated for the temps. A tent will keep in a lot of body heat.”

“What happens if you can't make it to the shelter?”

“Hmmm. Well I thought I'd throw the tent in the car trunk, maybe brave 1 night in the shelter, then I'd have the option for the rest of the trip....but I also wanted to test out my new Arcteryx Bora 40...a bit small for 4 season plus other gear.

Nut?!? well maybe. I'll just replace a couple of nalgene bottles for Bigfoot Barleywines...then I'll stay plenty warm! :)”

“Tarp percussion. Good point. I hadn't thought about that.

I'm not thru-hiking. The shelters won't be more than 8 miles from the trailhead. I have all the other necessary winter gear. If I don't make it to the shelter, I'll be sure to pose in some heroic, statuesque manner before I freeze.”

“In the winter, I always take some kind of shelter, be it tent, tarp or tarp tent, even if I know I will be staying at a shelter. What if the shelter is full, or if a storm comes in all of a sudden? 8 miles in the winter can be an eternity.

Just my $.02”

“I've stayed in a shelter with a tarp across the front and a catalytic heater inside and still been cold. It raised the temp all the way from 10 to 20. Wind blew right through that shelter like it had no walls! Tent definitely!”

“What direction does the shelter face? Does it have a loft? Is it in a gap or on a ridge? Does it have a windbreaker to the north west(tree-line or such)? Does the shelter have a fireplace?
If the shelter doesn't break the wind I'd use the Tarp as a wind break and abandon the shelter. The again, if the spring is frozen what is the point of an AT shelter?”

“I prefer a shelter myself but there is lots of very good "what ifs" to listen too here. I'm just not a big fan of tents if I can avoid them.”

“Don't get me wrong, on my whimpy half-hike of the AT, I stayed in shelters every night on the trail but two(and those were by choice).
Then again that wasn't winter.”

“C'mon Walkindude, you're just afraid to break (above) the 20# pack weight. lol

Yo Crow, glad to see yer still around.”

“LMAO!!!
Your prolly right Buddur!”

“Silly question here, but do the shelters have fireplaces in them? I know that in Harriman the fireplaces are inside. They hung a tarp up and it was very toasty in the shelter!!

Mapleleaf”

“Yes the shelters have fireplaces. I don't know the answers to the other questions....I haven't stayed in them before, but have seen pictures and they definitely have fireplaces. I'll probably stay in the Derrick Knob and Russell Field shelters in GSMNP. Maybe some of you are familiar with them???”

“It was two years ago when I did Clingmans to Fontana. Stayed in the shelters the whole time. This was in mid Dec. before the holidays. And as opposed to trying to block wind out at the fence I moved my wind block closer to me. We slept in the bottom bunks and fashioned my heavy E blanket to the front of the bunks and tuck the rest under our heads that night. I really can't recall if it was any warmer but what it did do was bring wind protection closer to me. Flapping was minimial if any. I used these little brass hooks, I found, that can screw into wood real easy to hang the blanket from. Did that make sense.”

“I would go with the tent.

I have found out over the years that a smaller tent that is lower to the ground will hold more heat then a higher tent.

8)”

“The shelters in the GSMNP have fireplaces, but most of the ones I've seen in Georgia do not. Most AT shelters are only good for keeping rain off you, and sometimes, not even that. Usually, a tent is warmer.”

“I agree with Pennsy about carrying some form of shelter in the winter. You've got to be prepared for all the "what ifs" that don't mean that much in the warmer weather, but can kill you in the winter. "What if the shelter is full, what if I get lost, what if I fall in a creek and have to stop NOW..." If the weight of a tent is a major issue for you then how about carrying a bivy sack, or at the very least, a tarp. How many of us could really make a shelter from scratch? In another thread I mentioned how you shouldn't set your tent up in a lean to in the winter... my reason for stating that was because most shelters (I'm really talking about three-walled lean to's) I have stayed in are off the ground and let the wind in through the floorboards. Heck, If you come across a shelter that's built like a brick ...house with a fireplace, c'mon in! A lean to with a tarp across the front works best if you've got enough folks to share it with - get those warm gases churnin'.”

“Tent for sure. Very good point made before, what if ya can get to the shelter, expecially due to weather. No way, I'll carry the weight every time”

“It's ilegal in the Adirondacks to block the front of a lean-to shelter. It's also illegal to erect a tent in one. I just sleep in a shelter when one is there - no problem. Personally, I find a tent in winter to be a pain in the butt. I find it much easier to throw down a bivy sack, slip in the mattress and sleeping bag and hop in. I cook, read at shoot the #&%!$ if I'm with a buddy. JMHO.”

“I know in GSMNP you can't pitch a tent at a shelter site and you won't find tent sites on the AT, so its either take your chances on getting caught or hike way off the AT to tent. Shelters pretty much Suc_ with the mice and even with fireplaces they don't help a lot, no room to gather round them, they are tucked into the front corner. You could use a bivvy in a shelter but normally not much room as most of the time they are booked full (12 is the norm). Unless you have to use them (reasons above) I prefer tents, even if I have to hump a tarp to cook under/windbreak with. If you're using a shelter take a cheap painters drop cloth or two to cover the front for wind break.”

“only a fool would go into the wilderness without a shelter”

“I'd agree with that. in an emergency the dropcloth, a little string and the handy poncho everyone carries will make an OK shelter for a night stuck on trail.”

“i agree with the tent being warmer - i've been in both a shelter and tent in temps under 10 degrees and was more comfortable in the tent. i haven't tried this but having a lantern or candle hung in your tent warms it up about 10 more degrees - i've read a couple of peeple doing it one of them being johnny molloy - he's got a great book called "trial by trail" should anyone be interested.”

“On the Zaleski OH, ECT trip back in January of 2000 I did a little experient. The temp. was 28 when I lit a Uco candle lantern in my Walrus Rapeed(3/4 season) tent. When I hit the bag a while later the temp. in the tent was 43. It may be 'only' 15 degrees but that's a world of diference at the time.”

“In these temps, 15-degrees can make the difference between survival or shrinkage.”

“15 Degrees for the weight of a candle lantern sounds great! I am; however, really concerned about being in a synthetic tent with a synthetic (hard to get out of) bag wearing synthetic clothes with an open flame.

Do you guys extinguish the lantern prior to sleeping?”

“No extinguishing of the flames...that's what warms the tent!

When you get to check out a Candle Lantern for the first time, you'll see that it'll be pretty hard to catch anything on fire. Drop wax, maybe. lol”

“don't forget to leave a window or something partially unzipped... if you burn a candle overnight...”

“I used a candle lantern at TC2 and it does warm up the tent. I have let mine burn all night. I have one of the UCO candle lanterns and the candles they use are the dripless kind. My tent has a loop in the front and back and the candle lantern hangs in the back of the tent.

azimuthcoordinator, you mention opening a window or not zipping up your tent but since so many tents have mesh in them why would you do that.”

“I'd disagree that they are not good for anything else. I use them in camp for light away from the fire, when your eyes are adjusted to low light or there is no moon, they work OK. I keep a little piece of aluminum foil with the lantern to use as a reflector, helps a lot.”

“if you have an older tent... or one that doen't have mesh... etc etc... or if you have a big hole in the side of it from setting it to close to the bonfire... or one could put a hose in their mouth and run it out the door... i'm just kidding...”

“mtnman; when I'm reading or writing at night I use the Aluminum wind screen from my camp stove, good reflection and double usage of an equipment piece(extra points for the Go-Lite folks)
I've also been on hikes where we had three or four lanterns hanging from branches around the group and it made an agreeable replacement for a fire pit.”