TT Running Club

“Hi - I've never posted on anything in my life before so if this is all goofed up, don't kick my butt too bad. I'm 58 and 23/24th's, retired and busier than I've ever been in my life. I hiked, backpacked, floated down rivers and biked all summer in NW Wisconsin. When the snow hit I found a nice fitness center in Spooner to get in shape while passing the winter. Everything was coming along fine when some dope suggested I take up cross country skiing about a month ago...so I did. So far this month I've done almost 160 miles with a goal of 200 by the end of the month. Don't ask me why. Anyway, I got this wild idea and thought I'd offer it to the group for comment/abuse. I'm going to thru hike the AT, run a marathon and ski the Birkiebienner all in the year I turn 60. It will be difficult, but it's doable - particularly if I talk so much trash that I paint myself into a corner and have to do it (or move away in the middle of the night). Comments. suggestions, ridicule?”

“Hi - it's me again still being new. I wondered what that "ignore this user" button meant so I clicked it. Evidently I put Dunadan on ignore. Have no idea how to unignore. Hope it's not terminal.”

“snake eyes, clicker "unignore this user" and it should solve the problem.

I think your goal for your 60th sounds great! Good luck with it.”

“SnakeEyes, if you weren't in such good shape, I'd threaten to kick your butt for putting me on "ignore". LOL
I say, go for the glory. It's an honorable goal, if the rest of your life is taken care of.
Looks like I'll be doing the second marathon of my life this year. It will have been 22 years since my first marathon. My daughter, who is an avid runner, wants to run one and asked me if I would run with her. How can a dad pass up an offer like that?
I'd like to keep it near three hours, if at all possible. My last one was 3:09:34.”

“Hello, snake eyes. Love your story!
It's great to have goals, and it sounds like you picked some good ones. A marathon is one of mine, too.

What is the Birkiebienner?”

“The "Birkie" is the premier North American Cross country ski event (according to the sponsors). It runs a distance in excess of 30 miles from Cable to Hayward, Wi. I've fot the cardiovascular stamina to do it this year, but I want to work on my core strength and skiing skills before tackling it. For hikers who can't (or choose not to) hike in the winter, cross country skiing is a God send. I look at another snow fall as extending the ski season at least one more day. Don't even #&%!$ about shoveling the driveway.”

“Just got back from doing a tempo run around the lake. I warmed up for about 5-10 minutes, then ran the well-marked and accurately measured 5k course, aiming for 160-165 BPM. I did OK staying in the range and finished the 5k in 22:51, with an average HR of 163. My splits were 7:12, 7:24, 7:28, 0:47. Back before I hurt my ankle (2.5 years ago), I did a longer tempo run around the lake - 35:00 - averaging exactly the same HR, but averaging 6:55 per mile! Ouch. Guess I still have some work to do to get back into shape....”

“Bowlder --

Interesting to have you make the direct connection between heartrate and pace.


I know intellectually that, with appropriate effort, I should be able to run faster at the same heart rate, but my body,lungs,legs seem to ignore this.


I have almost concluded that some people are born to run 8 minute miles, some 7 minutes, some 6 minutes some 5 minutes and some are Kenyans.


I have therefore concluded that I was born to run an 8 minute mile. Period.

Anyhoo. My monitor doesn't give me average hrt rate. Today I ran 37 minutes, not sure of the distance. Probalby between 4 and 4.5 miles. Pegged it at 150 pretty quick, it was there for the first 6 minutes, eased off into the 140s for the next 7 minutes and then the long slow ramp up onto the bridge over the river. It is probably 3/4 mile of gentle uphill. My heartrate goes up on the approach and heading up the ramp, and then never comes back down. So from the 13/14 minute mark I went up to the upper 150s where it stayed with an occaisonal spike into the 160s.


While this is a fine narrative . . .I have no idea how to translate it into faster pace times.

Coach????”

“Holy carp, BowlderMan-- it's 61 degrees up here today! Bad knees or not, I'm going for a run here shortly. You don't get many Febraury days in Montana like this!!”

“Well, I disagree, lee. If you are able to train appropriately without getting hurt, you can definitely improve your pace. I once thought I was a 9:00/mile jogger, but, with some training guidance, improved to where my default comfortable pace was about 7:00/mile (I'm slower now, maybe 8:00 or so); and I even ran a 4:42 mile once!

In terms of using the HRM for improving your speed/pace, I would recommend two things. First, the tempo run, like what I do. There are some different opinions about how to do this. The approach I take is to identify your max HR (mine's about 194), and aim for about 85% of that over some minutes. I have done these for anywhere from 15 to 35 minutes (plus warmup and cooldown).

The other thing is to use it during track intervals, say 800 or 400 repeats. For this, I experimented a bit and ended up running at whatever pace I could manage, then jogging or walking until my HR dropped to, I think, about 140 (it was a while ago, so I forget). What you'll find is that, as you get in better shape, you can run the intervals faster AND the amount of time it takes your heart to recover to the predetermined rate gets shorter.

The end result of all this is that you stress your heart, then let it recover. Just like any muscle, this allows it to build strength. This will make it more comfortable for you to run at a faster pace - voila!

BTW, one of the "fun" parts of all of this is finding your max HR. Warm up. Then run some 800 repeats, pretty fast. Then run an 800 about as hard as you can, but don't stop. Plan ahead so you can run up a steep hill right at the end of the 800. Run until you can't run any more. Look at your HRM, if it hasn't melted. That will be your max HR. (Your results may vary....)

If you want actual expert advice, ask Coach Aero.”

“Wow, aero, great! It's about that down here. Last night was the first time I'd run during a rainstorm in a few years. It was raining and windy - fun! I ran along the beach - the rain had compacted the sand so it was great to run on, and there weren't any other fools out there but me....”

“"I have almost concluded that some people are born to run 8 minute miles, some 7 minutes, some 6 minutes some 5 minutes and some are Kenyans"...Lee, the kenyan part is too funny.

It reminds me of the power bar commercial. Something about finishing with the kenyans or someone named ken.”

“One other piece of advice: If you want to move from an 8-minute a mile guy to a 7-minute a mile guy, start running with the 7-minute guys. Worked for me....”

“Six mile training run yesterday. I only have to add 20 to that to get my second marathon.
The weather is great here, but because of all the snow, my running trails in the country are sloppy. So, six miles with ten pounds of mud on each shoe makes for a good workout.”

“Hey Dun, was thinking about you this morning....there's an article in outside about the great plains mountains, Mt Sunflower's in there.

I'm off to do my measley five miles this morning. Should be extra exciting as I get to do it on the home treadmill with a three year old who has diarhea. Think I'll throw on "The Princess Bride" to make it extra extra exciting. Nothing like having your water come out your nose, while running, because you're laughing so hard. =)”

“Run that treadmill into the ground, Sass.
Re: midwestern mountains, I think someone made a mistake by including Mt. Sunflower in that list. It is the highest point of elevation in Kansas, but it isn't even a good hill. Have you ever checked out the website "Into Thick Air". It's very funny, even though it's a bunch of Coloradoans making fun of Kansas.
Anyway, keep up the run!”

“bowdler --

I know "intellectually" that I am wrong . . . .but my body doesn't belive it yet.


I watched the finish line at the Falmouth Road Race one year (Cape Cod, 7.1 miles). It has developed a reputation, so there are quite a few pros who run it.


The announced the split times as the leaders got underway. They came flying across the finish line (all Kenyans)in under 30 mintues. All of them running sub- 5 mintue miles for 7.1 miles.

Sub- 5 minute miles. You could chase me with a damn gun and I couldn't run that fast for 100 yards.


Anyhoo . ..quite awhile later the rest of the folks started coming across. Then more folks. And the announcer encouraged the crowd to respond with more applause.


He said "come on, let give it up for these fine runners they are all getting in under the 42 minute mark."


So I did some quick math. These slowpokes, straggling in some 12-15 mintues after the leaders . . .were still running sub -6 minute miles.


My jaw just dropped.



RE: heart rate. I have been through the paces you describved Bowlder (more or less) after reading ac couple of Outside mag article about max heart rate. I figure mine is about 200. At least that makes the math very easy.

So 150 is 75% which is where i normally run., Uphills I will normally push it to 160-172(between 80-86%) and if I am really cranking I might nudge it over 175 (87.5%)for a moment or two (as long as I know I have a downhill recovery coming soon!!)

I suppose what I should do is a litle more scientific. . .work harder at holding it at the higher levels for longer.”

“Ha! Yeah, lee, when I ran my best 10-miler (maybe my best road race ever, at 64:20), I was determined to run a slow first mile. Gun went off, I gladly let all the people zoom out ahead of me while I chatted with a friend who I knew would start out sufficiently slow. We crossed the first mile in 6:17 - oops! But I was amazed that there were a couple hundred people ahead of me! Most of whom I didn't pass during the race! I've concluded that, almost without exception, no matter how good you get in running, you can always find people who are incredibly faster than you are.”

“Just back from the gym, where I reached a million pounds of lifted weight. Well, all I did was do the arithmetic on reps times sets times weight, and the weight is what's printed on the lead on the machines so who knows how much the actual weight is. But still.

Easy 5-miler in the hills tonight, then some XC skiing (weather permitting) over the weekend....”

“Bowlderman, congrats on your one million pounds. Thats impressive as all get out!

Lee, I wish I were slow enough to run 6 minute miles.

Did 7 miles on the indoor track at the gym tonite (wanted off the hamster wheel). 11 laps make a mile,so it was 77 laps ugh. With 4 turn per lap...I made over 300 right turns tonite. I imagine my knees will hurt tomorrow which will be my 10 miler. Either trail or road, not sure yet.”

“You dizzy, Birch?
I did another six this evening. I went out hard and timed my first mile. Let's just say that there is a LOT of training ahead for this old man.
Anyway, it was a beautiful day and a great sunset. Happy running everyone.”

“So... what was that first mile time???”

“The track I run on is takes 12 laps to make a mile. I haven't tired a treadmill yet, maybe this weekend. I have ran 5 miles the last 3 times. I was doing 2 miles the start of this month so I have improved some.
My biggest problem is forgetting which lap I am on so I usually subtract one. I probably end up going more than I plan on.

Sass was telling me about a plan you got for her. Do you have a link to the site or is it something you can email to me.”

“(pssst, Bowlder, don't tell anyone but it was a little over eight minutes.) It sure has been a long time since I've timed myself.”

“I heard that. A little over eight minutes sounds good to me. I have only gotten two runs in this week. To shake off the slothness, I am planning a two hour jaunt tomorrow. That should get me around a half-marathon.”

“ewker, I dont have a link. Go to runnersworld.com click on "training" then scroll down to Hal Higdons 1/2 marathon training plan for beginners. Its a good one. Used it many time myself.

It easy to lose track of laps. Thats why I pay so much atention. I take drinks at laps 5.5 and 11. I only count laps per mile (11) then sorta reset and start over. Its easy to remember miles. Today due to a COLD rain I'll be doing 10 miles on the track...110 laps 440left turns today,groan.”

“Thanks Hubcap, but I was convinced that if I went all out, I could get close to seven. Man, was my ego deflated. However, I have a looong time until I have to do this marathon, so I will stick to longer and longer training runs with little concern for time. Losing weight is probably priority #1.”

“Today I was going to try a treadmill since I never have. Boy was that a joke. I dang near killed myself on it. I didn't have any idea on how to set it up. Once I got it going I said that looks good and got on....wrong..off I went. I had to laugh at myself (along with everyone else). The heck with this, off to the track I went, its safer...lol”

“Birch, thanks I will look it up and print it out.”

“Ewk - did you do a George Jetson?

We're in a nice weather break here. I ran after work Tues thru Fri and today was so nice I ran in shorts and a tee shirt. It felt so good to be free of all those clothes that I ran for 90 minutes. Begone winter fat!”

“Just got back from skiing. So far I'm at 195 miles for the month with a goal of 200. No reason for it, just wanted to set a goal. Now that I'm finally rounding into shape everything is just plain fun. Setting goals and accomplishing them keeps me rolling. I'm curious about the running and intend to begin when the snow melts (it's snowing again as we speak - er - type). I slipped a disc during my 50th year and haven't run since. Now that my back and ab muscles are in better shape it's close to time for the kid to check his running skills out. Running used to be sweetness for me. I'm looking forward to finding out whether or not I can reclaim that sense of floating on air while I run.”

“snake eyes, your 200 mile goal is great. Looks like you'll make it!

Did my longest wk of running so far, 32. Felt good. Gonna beat it next wk.”

“Running like floating on air or A$$ sucking wind, what's the difference? It's all air.”

“Oops. 32 miles is a very good week, particularly in conjunction with job and family. I did most of my running when my kids were small and I was raising them by myself. It was my personal time and helped keep me sane. I think.”

“32 miles... I'm impressed!

Ran another 5K Saturday in Bay City, on ice and slush, again. Bettered my time by 27 seconds.

Did my long run Sunday in beautiful sunny spring like weather on our rail-trail. Went for 92 minutes; 8 miles, my longest. I'm s-o-r-e.
My longest week too, 20 miles.

Up to 4" of snow here today. Might just get in some more skiing yet!”

“Le Subtil, dang man you chewed like 2 plus minutes off of your 5k time, thats great. I bet you are achy big time after a 92 minute run! Feels good though, it gets easier each time.

My good buddy is done running for a while now. He has been running very regularly for the passed 6 months or so, but his nutrtition has been awful I cant count the times he was bad mouthing "carbs". I tried explaing that with 25+ mile weeks that nutrition is vital and that his food (especially carbs) intake should increase. He's now lost lots of his body fat and is starting to nibble away at muscle. He's tired, running very slow comparatively and is "sickly". After 4 trips to the doc and lots of reading he realized...that he wasnt eating right and was starting to eat up muscle. So now he done he says. I encouraged him to take 1-2 wks off and rest up, work on eating well and to start back SLOWLY...”

“LeSubtil, you must be a week ahead of me. I did my longest ever Sunday too. 7.15 miles, 80 minutes. It left me shakey and ravenous. Getting a teensy bit faster, but not much.”

“I found a marathon I want to run. It's 5 weeks after the 1/2 I signed up for with you guys.

http://www.bayshoremarathon.org/

I used to live out on the Old Mission Peninsula, 20 years ago. It'll be a run along the bay shore, among all the cherry trees, which might be in blossom. It's one of the prettiest stretches of road I've ever seen.

I've been training for the half for 3 weeks now, and it's still 14 weeks away. That should be do-able, eh?

It's be a perfect chance to check off one of my life long goals!

Sass - I was "s'posed" to only do 75 minutes, but I wanted to do 8 full miles to make it a 20 week.
I think I'm one week behind you. 5 tonight?”

“Another six last night. Took the weekend off because we are painting our house. I want to keep my runs at six for now, and maybe do some longer runs on the weekends in the future. What I really need to do is start posting on the "losing weight" thread. Carrying a lighter load would sure help.
I should mention that I have been enjoying these longer runs immensely. Oxygenating your body can give you quite a lift.”

“Artex - if the "thing" happens, and you're in Maine this year, check this marathon out.

Mt Desert Island Marathon 2004

I always thought my marathon days were over but I'll be 50 when the 2005 event takes place. It might be tempting.”

“Yep, five tonight. =)”

“LeSubtil, I GUARANTEE that you'll be able to finish that marathon in may. Slow and steady and enjoy the time. I hope to be able to go with ya.”

“Whoa. That marathon would be PERFECT for my first one! Thanks!”

“Mmmmm.... Do I detect a TT marathon? I'm gonna keep this one in mind. When marathon shopping recently, this one did catch my eye.”

“I wonder if the 1000 person limit will fill up quickly, like they say it will.”

“If you check out the "Registrations Map" link, it shows what states have runners regsitered. Click on the state and it shows who registered for that state. Pretty cool.

Unlikely (but ya never know) for me in 2004 but possibly in 2005.”

“A TT marathon is a great idea!”

“Run Maine!!!!”

“Hi,

I posted on here a couple of times previously about my dream of thru hiking the AT, running a marathon and skiing the "Birkie" all in the year of my 60th birthday. For awhile(Novmber and December) I was doing an hour a day x 5 days of cardio work and 5 days of lifting weights. Due to a torn left rotator cuff and carpal tunnel syndrome on the right I minimized the weight lifting. I also noted deterioration in both my flexibility and core strength. To deal with it I now do 2 mornings of aerobics, one day of Pilates, a day of Yoga and a day of light weights combined with cardio work per week. For extra cardio work I ski virtually every afternoon an average of 10 miles. Right now I'm getting a little overwhelmed with the magnitude of my scheme and I need some feedback to help me keep things clear and to stay motivated.

Probably the first step in the Trifecta is the AT. My birthday is March 3rd so that is a good time to start out. If I finish in October, I will only have a couple of months tops to train for the marathon. While I'm sure to be pretty slimmed down from the thru hike I question whether my hiking mileage will provide me with something like a running base in that I will be able to tune it up with a month to six weeks of running prior to the marathon. This doesn't seem impossible and will mean I will have to find a marathon somewhere in the south to do in December. Immediately following the run, if I'm still living, I'll have to gear up and start training for the Birkie. Even though this is considered to be a hell of an event, at this point I'll just gut it out; take my skis off and crawl if I have to. In none of these am I intending to do anything other than finish.

What I am asking from you who post here is to (1) put up with me, (2) offer me advice and support and (3) put up with me some more because I think this more than I can handle by myself.
Ideas and thoughts about anything regarding preparation and training will be most welcome. There are no personal trainers anywhere near here, so you all may be it. Thanks”

“snake eyes, I would think that after hiking the AT you'll be in top shape, you'll also be tired and your bodies reserves will be beyond tapped. Running a marathon 4-6 wks later is challenging. I think you can do it,BUT I would advise not trying to beat any time goals at the marathon, I would advise just trying to finish. That being said I did my first marathon with 3 wks training last october. I have run for 13 years but didnt prep for the biggy. I did it but it hurt...BAD. I am training like a madman for my next one. I think your goal is awesome. I love the idea of setting goals that seems unreachable and finding a way to acheive them.

Did 8 more tonite,75minutes,not bad. 19 for the wk so far with 16 more to go. I am coming to the point where I feel really strong through the whole run. I didnt eat this time (while running) and didnt feel sluggish at all. This is goooood!”