Roe v. Wade

“but you know what, we're going to get divided into camps that hate each other if we're not careful, so im going to quit now and you can flame me behind my back if you want to and ill smile and shake your hand when we go on a trailtalk trip together, cuz i wont know what you said about me.

peace

btw

f!ck the war in iraq

go hillary in 04”

“lol chilie, HELL NO! lmao! i was referring to the adress i posted earlier in this thread, it's near where i posted the "controversal" pictures. rosey said he went and looked at it, although he believed it was bogus i was still impressed that he even looked at it, most people didn't. it's got photo's of aborted fetuses.”

“j/k about that hillary thing, y'all”

“lmao 2scoops, you got me....i was was like...damm....

i agree though, i wish people didn't get angry talking bout stuff like this. i even do it sometimes and i don't want to be that way. alot of the time i''m being sarcastic and i'm sure some people mistake that for being a jerk. then there's prolly alot who really just think i'm a jerk. i just enjoy the mental exercise of debate.”

“If you don't want an opinion......don't start a thread”

“This sure is an emotional issue.

My 2 cents: Abortion stops a beating heart, and I am awfully hard pressed to justify that.

Second, if one chooses to do all the things that lead to pregnancy, I don't think they should be surprised to turn up pregnant, and ought to accept the responsibility that comes with the actions ( I am talking about both parties here).

Third, if some one does not choose to do so and is raped, it's hard for me to speak for another here, but.... I don't really believe the baby would be at fault, and I am sure the baby would choose to live.

There was a transcript of an abortion, and an instructional movie, taken in the womb, of several abortions taking place, years back. The babies were all fighting against the suction, cutting and solutions. A pro-lifer smuggled the movie out and spread it around. There were lawsuits, etc... I never watched the movie, but read the transcripts. At the same time, either Dear Abby, or Anne Landers was promoting abortion. I wrote to her about this movie, asked her to watch it, and reconsider her stance. She replied to me, in a letter, that she had indeed seen the movie, but still felt a need for abortions.... I was incredulous that one could see the actual event and still promote it.

It's easy to put up a front of rhetoric, but if people would get beyond the emotions and consider.

I have to comment on these partial birth abortions, the ones causing so much controversy. Pretty much, they are the late term abortion of choice(???) What happens is that labor is induced, which is the same thing that happens when a mother has been pregnant for too long and not given birth. The baby is delivered breach, but only the lower part of the head is allowed out of the birth canal. (Bear in mind that at this point, a simple sneeze by either the mother or doctor would finish delivering the baby and a birth would occur.) This is also the most stressful part of delivery as the biggest portion of the baby is stuck in the birth canal. (So I have to wonder how this helps to save a woman's life. Why not finish pulling the baby out???) Then that soft spot that we all have at the rear of our skull, just above the neck, is where the baby's brain gets sucked.

This is just barbaric to me!!! If you really need to stop being pregnant, and want to do it this way, why can one not induce labor, and deliver a live baby? Why must a baby be killed skant seconds before it is completely born? I have yet to hear an answer that rings of the truth on this issue.

I tried to stay out of this emotional thread, but sometimes this opinionated fella can't help himself....”

“Uphill, I'm not sure how any of the others feel about that, but I do not support partial birth abortion either. Barbaric is the right word there. If a woman has made it that far in the pregnancy, I'm sure that she can handle "finishing up" and putting the child up for adoption. By the time one is that progressed in pregnancy you have had plenty of time to deal w/ the emotions, come up w/ a plan, and get prepared to take responsibility (be it raising the child or giving it up for adoption). I know, I've been there. I would agree w/ you (whether or not the man is involved at that point or not)that a woman can just buck up at that late date.”

“wow...uphill, i totally agree with you, i had never heard of this video but honestly i don't have to always see something to know i don't beieve in it..i'm with you too stratdewd...i hate t see everyone get all riled up but this is a pretty intimate issue for a lot of people and that can lead to a lot...i'm still following this too for the brain stimulation. i'm always open to other opinions, for one thing, someone may actually change my mind (it has happened) and if nothing else, you must always know the enemy 8)”

“kidding on the enemy thing guys...put the torches down ;)”

“and ULTRA, since when is killing for survival equivalent to killing for convenience?”

“I was hoping that was a joke Nia13.”

“don't worry newgirl, i was...i may have a big mouth, but i usually try to use my brain too...just trying to lighten things up a little...getting a little heavy in here
8)”

“If I got zapped, why not Uphill Klimber? Oh well, guess I am the new #&%!$ on the block.......Oh well, later all, this will be my last comment on this subject!”

“"the number regretting what they have done far outweighs the number who feel they did the right thing. and i think that speaks volumes."
2scoops

And where does this statistic come from. Most women whom I've known who have had abortions were glad of it... and many are also Moms now and very good Mom's at that. I really don't but your claim at all, but if you've got real evidence to back you up, I'll look at it.”

“Ped, I agree w/ you on 2scoops comment. I am aware of only 2 women that have had abortions, my closest friend being one of them, and both of them are very frank about their decision. They both were very sure that it was the right choice and neither one of them regrets it. I'm not saying that there are not women who do regret it, but my experience is that it is a carefully thought out decision and one they are certain is correct.”

“2Scoops --

Others have responded to your assertion that most folks who terminate a pregancy regret it:

, i would put good money on those who have actually gone thru with it, the number regretting what they have done far outweighs the number who feel they did the right thing. and i think that speaks volumes. because i have never heard of someone who has had an abortion say it was the right thing.



Let me add my agreement to PedXing and Newgirl


I know 3or more women who have had abortions. NOT one of them regrets it.

Two of them were young college women. One of whom had a contraceptive failure, the other of whom was drunk and hooked up with and ex boyfriend for the night.

Neither one was in the position mentally, emotionally, financially or otherwise to carry the child, give birth and raise it (or put it up for adoption.


Neither one regrets the abortion one iota.



Here is an assertion of my own.

I strongly doubt that most women having abortions have very many regrets whatsoever.

I agree with Pedxing. Sometimes terminating the pregancy is the moral and ethical route.”

“Since I've done a fair amount of counseling, I have run into some women who deeply regretted their abortions and felt they were wrong. I've also met former anti-abortion protestors who repented their protests.

I do have a friend who has done pastoral counseling at clinics that perform abortion and ones that refer people for abortion. She has told me a number of times about people who come in wanting abortions and acknowledge regulalry protesting against abortion at the clinics. Some of them are recognized by the clinic staff. Some of them say that abortion should be against the law, but explain why their case is completely unique and beg the staff not to tell anyone what they are doing. Others insist that abortion is wrong, but that they have weakened and want one anyway.

Always with the former and someties with the latter, she recommends against abortion. I agree with her. Going against your values on an issue like that is a recipe for trouble.”

“you're telling me that a life should be ended because someone had the poor judgement to wind up in bed with someone they would rather not have?! what happened to responsibility? if you're trying to open some minds here, give me some better arguments than "oops..." as for abortion being a moral decision...where were you taught morals?”

“Nia13--

I have no particular moral qualms about abortion. At all.


If a woman (and man) decide they have made a mistake regarding a pregnancy, and decide that terminating it is what is right for them. Then they should do so.

I don't particularly care about the circumstances. From failed contraception, a wild dunk night out, incest, rape, an all night sex party with 25 partners . . .whatever.

If the practical and reasonable decision is that they don't want the pregnancy to go to term . . .then it shoud be terminated.”

“i can see you have no moral qualms about it lee...that's what amazes me...”

“Wow!! This goes on and on.
Someone here said they would drive a cement truck through a crowd of abortion protesters!!?? Come up for air ....you need some f...ing help. I sure hope we don't meet out in the woods.....probably kill me for farting. Get a life.”

“JO -

If your farts are lethal enough, you don't hafta worry about retaliatory survivors.”

“yeah, i think the cement truck solution may be a little harsh...though if gojo's right, you may not have to be killed 8)”

“yeah, i think the cement truck solution may be a little harsh...though if gojo's right, they might not have to kill
you...guess it depends on what's for dinner eh? 8)”

“Now that's more like it...everybody wang chung tonight!”

“Now that's more like it...everybody wang chung tonight!”

“Sometimes choosing to bring a child in the world doesn't make good sense. If having a child is the wrong thing to do, it doesn't matter if the would be Mom was raped by 23 armed men, had a fling, made love on her honeymoon night, or sold herself for crack.

Ifn ya wanna punish her for sex, try something that doesn't involve bringing an innocent baby into an ugly situation.”

“Oh OH OH !! Let me step right up and claim responsibility for the cement truck comment!!

It was me me me me me me.



I thought about editing it. You know, for civilities sake.


But then, I thought, Nope. That is how I feel.


Isn't the net a great place for honest exchange.


As I said in that passage a while back, Few subjects get me as disturbed as abortion, and especially abortion protesters. I am not sure why I see red regarding protesters . . .but I sure as heck do. The idea that a woman and man could go through the process of making a decision to terminate a pregnancy . . .and then have to face screaming ignorant men and nuns is beyond me to deal with in a nice manner. {note the use of the word ignorant here is applicable. Not many nuns or men I know have actually had an abortion).

If 2scoops' "woman who regretted having an abortion" wanted to have a quiet conversation to counsel someone weighing her options . . .that would be fine. Great in fact.

To have folks lined up with picket signs, screaming obscenities, taking pictures, shoving, pushing, spitting . . .it makes me want to . . .


DRIVE A CEMENT TRUCK THROUGH THEM.


(see . . . get me worked up . . .and there it is again)




PS: I agree with most everything the PEDXING has said . . .


and he is irritatingly calm, collected rationale and well spoken.

Go read HIS posts.”

“Isn't the net a nice place for anonymous, safe, sometimes cowardly
flaming and ranting using silly pseudonyms?”

“I would just love to ask those protesters how many 'unwanted, unadoptable' babies they have adopted. And then I'd address the men and ask them if they had had a snip and cauterization. Then I would love to tell them to SHUT UP!!”

“Oh . . .

and when it comes right down to it. . . ..it would be by far a cleaner, easier, less cruel fate to see me behind the wheel of a sement truck than to have me walk through a crowd of protesters after a bowl of chili and a glass of milk.”

“Lee, you are disgusting. LOL!”

“...this isn't satire: Thanks be to God and the Christian Terrorist”

“If the doctors would go armed, they could defend themselves.”

“Did y'all see this pic from that page?:
(Warning... gory!)

http://www.armyofgod.com/Baby7.html

It reminds me of (Michaelangelo's?) sculpture "Piata", which is my favorite religious sculpture.

Poor kid.
May God rest his soul.”

“Pieta”

“Those pictures are pretty sobering
to say the least. I understand why
the abortion lobby never wants them published.”

“just to be fair, most who are anti-abortion are not pro-abortion-clinic-bombing-and-doctor-murdering”

“Just to be fair...

Pro-Choice REALLY means pro-murder, IF you happen to believe that life begins a conception, or, sometime during the 1st trimester.

Pro-Choice is a "marketing" term that sounds a lot better that "pro-murder".”

“I don't know about you guys, but my copy of the Bible generally discourages this type of behavior:

Clayton Lee Waagner

Waagner allegedly mailed the threat letters that claimed to be tainted with the deadly anthrax bacterium in October and November 2001, when he was about seven months on the lam after escaping from an Illinois prison where he was awaiting sentencing on gun and stolen car charges.

snip

Waagner discusses his growing anger at abortion providers and tells Horsley "the reason I haven't killed an abortionist yet is how difficult it is for me to take a human life. I respect human life. I have done other things... but I haven't actually taken a life. I'm going to."

Waagner says that he has already targeted 42 abortion providers, stalked them, and followed them home. But before killing them, he says, he wants to deal with those people - nurses, secretaries and support personnel - who work for abortion providers "cause it's a job and don't consider it."

"What I've been doing over the last nine months in a very orchestrated manner," Waagner continues, referring to the anthrax mailings, "is to give those people a chance to quit."

"I want to demonstrate to them how truly vulnerable they are," Waagner says on the tape. "I put anthrax in their face, or what they thought was anthrax... . They have no security, none."”

“Violin, the title of the thread is Roe Vs. Wade. I thoughht that's what this thread was about.

Please stick to the subject.”

“altho i am on the same side of the fence with you, wanderer (i am opposed to abortion) i cant agree with statement. much of the nation believes abortion is not murder, so theyre not trying to make it sound more palatable”

“"I don't know about you guys, but my copy of the Bible generally discourages this type of behavior:"

dont be argumentative. i dont agree with clinic bombings either”

“Please stick to the subject."
wanderer

sorry. we dont do that here.”

“I am referring to the Army of God glorifying Clay Waagner, Eric Rudolph and James Kopp as Christian Terrorists (see link). Them folks is whack!”

“Actually, stormy, I didn't say I was opposed to abortion. What I said was that the pro-choice crowd, if they were honest, would be the pro-murder crowd. It depends upon when you believe life begins, and I didn't say when I thought it began.

And, there are other factors to consider as well.

What I always try to do is get one side to see the other sides' position,...the only way resolution will ever occur is if everyone recognizes everyone elses right to a differing position. What I try to do is get people to understand that there is ANOTHER viewpoint out there other than their own, and that other viewpoint may have deep significance.

Give everyone a chance to speak, and be receptive to what they have to say... don't "pre-judge", and don't think your position is the only one of merit!”

“okay. i thought maybe you were inferring that anyone who is anti-abortion is pro-clinic-bombing. ill give you the benefit of the doubt. THIS time. ; )”

“gosh youre so like openminded and stuff. i am such a closedminded fool. you have shown me the light, wandy. i will change my ways.”

“OH MY GAWD...I actually clicked one of VioliN,s links.”

“Stormy, I have not posted my personal beliefs on this thread yet.

Having said that...

I don't believe in murder, usually.

BUT... I didn't tell you when I thought "life" began, did I?”