Down Bag Or Synthetic?

“My oldest brother (out of four of them) said I could use his dividened from R.E.I. towards some gear. I thought I should get a down bag but since I have read threds about trouble with zippers on down bags I am wondering if synthetic would be better? My old bag I have had forever made from Colman and I always get cold. Sounds like Down is warmer. Suggestions?”

“I personally don't think you can go wrong with down. It rocks!”

“The zipper problem on Artex's bag has nothing to do with being a down bag. I would get a down bag over synthetic anyday. It's lighter. I haven't had any problems with my down bag.”

“The sierra designs bag for women might be a good canditate for you.

Rei bags are good too.

Also, down bags compress too nothing in your pack. Save weight and space.”

“Bb I do have a small pack, thats a plus for down then.”

“What bbinkley said re: my bag. However, I'd recommend examining the zipper closely of each bag before buying.

The advantages of down are great, as bbinkley said. Only downside is that it costs more.”

“Will you be hiking in an above average wet climate like the northwest, bring a dog with you, or any other reason that you'll make you usually deal with moisture? If so I'd suggest synthetic because it still performs well when moist/wet. If not, I'd recommend down.”

“Advantages of Down:
1) Better warmth to weight ratio. (a 20 deg down bag will weigh less than a 20 deg synthetic)
2) More compressible.

Dis-advantages of down
1) More expensive (noticably)
2) Down looses all insluation value if it gets wet.



Advantages of Synthetic
1) More cost effective (cheaper)
2) Maintains insulative qualities even when saturated (keeps you warm if it's wet).

Dis-Advantages of Synthetic
1) Bulky, doesn't pack as small
2) Not so good warmth to weight ratio (A 20 deg syn bag will be heavier than a 20 deg down bag).


There are some new synthetic fills on the market that come close to downs performance (but not quite equal....yet). Look for Polarguard Delta and Primaloft, the two best bets out there.

BWD's rule of sleeping bag thumb....

If you know you will be in a potentially wet environment (canoe camping, rafting, kayaking, Seattle, India during monsoon season) get synthetic, otherwise get down (you may boogie-oogie-oogie if you like as well).”

“And like the late great once omnipresent Nigal said..."The best 30F sleeping bag is a 15F sleeping bag!"”

“also...in most cases you'll find the exact same zippers on down and syn. bags and they usually only snag the soft pliable shell...not the insulation.

Don't be shy...throw the bags out on the floor and zip them back and forth and see if they snag easy.

The best ones will have a stiff material behind the zipper to keep them runnng smooth.”

“Did you see in the latest issue of Outside mag?? There's a new one from Marmot which combines down with synthetic. "Best of both worlds" it said. Supposed to retail for $189. Was good to something like 5 degrees. 3.3 lbs, if I remember correctly.

OH MAN WIND WALKER..... "stiff material behind the zipper to keep them running smooth"????!??

LMFAO!!! (sorry........lol)”

“Don't they make a down bag with a water proof Shell? If so who makes it?”

“You may want to look into the "Big Agnes" line of bags. See my review in the gear section. I absoutely love mine. I currently have the 20 synthetic, I will pick up the 15 down in the spring...”

“Don't they make a down bag with a water proof Shell? If so who makes it?"
BigRob
10:57:39 PM
01/25/03

Just about everyone is making one with some form of Waterproof/breathable shell. Using Pertex, Elements, Conduit or any one of fifteen other materials there are a ton to choose from. Take a peek at REI.com and check 'em out.”

“Look Here...

http://www.bigagnes.com”

“speaking Of REI
I spent over $200.00 in there today. I would have spent more but they did not have pants in my size (6xx Large).”

“Try the patagonia Outlet.....”

“Big Wave Dave
the site said that the bags are "water resistant by construction" not water proof. I would like to know how much water you could get on one of these bags before the down gets wet. REI did not have my pant size but I was only joking about the 6x large. The were also out of my size in the gloves i wanted.”

“Kelty Quasar is a nice waterproof/breathable down bag.”

“you are talkin' pants right.......or do I need to contact Sherlocks brother.”

“The Big Agnes bags are not manufactured of a waterproof/breathable material.

I'd be reticent to get'em wet.

Look at the Marmot line, they use pertex in a few bags. Mountain Hardware has their Conduit material. REI uses their Elements material (the EL series bags)......”

“Jello Fog
yes pants. I spell it like i say it. I arnt the best speller.”

“rob - waterproofing on a down bag isnt always the best idea. waterproofing usually also means it prevents water from escaping and slowing the drying process. while down does lose its warmth when wet it isnt that hard to keep it dry. worst case they do make depends to stop accidents :P”

“I've always been a fan of down bags, but after this weekend mine got seriously wet from wet clothes and heavy condensation and I started to get cold in it by morning. It was 3 degrees that night. I doubt I would have stayed warm in it for another night if I had to stay out and there was no way to dry it since it was below freezing. I'm just glad I was going home. It's the first time I got my down bag wet and it sucks when they do get wet and it's really cold out. I still like down, but under the conditions I was in this weekend sythetic would be the better choice.”

“Lizs, it was 15 degrees. I thought that was purty kewl. I'd be curious about it's stuff size.”

“The Down vs. Synthetic argument is one of the enduring constants for any outdoor site.

2 myths always come up.

#1 A wet synthetic bag is warm, this is such BS. A wet bag is a cold miserable experience. The advantage of a synthetic bag is that it can be dried on the trail where a down bag cannot. A synthetic bag can be wrung out by hand and reasonably dried with either Winter sun for a few hours, or a medium to large campfire. A Down bag cannot be wrung out the down will form solid little clumps and have no insulation left beyond the lining and shell.

#2 A waterproof shell will protect a Down bag. As Dirtyoldman pointed out the down collapse is from body moisture trying to get OUT, but freezing inside because of the temp diff with the outside air. I always turn my bag inside out and compress to get as much air as possible out before stuffing in the am. No shell is going to compensate for a lousy tent or bivvy (or poorly set up tent of bivvy). A breathable shell performs better.

I used a Down bag in the New Guinea rainforest (1 - 2 inches per night, 100% humidity) and had no problem with a wet bag. I have certainly experienced rain in the Adirondacks also.

I would select synthetic if I was boating/canoeing, or where I was expecting a wet climate and cold temperatures above freezing.

For everything else I prefer Down, but stress that this is my preference or opinion, not necessarily better.”

“Thanks Manuka. :) It's good to hear both sides good and bad. I'm thinking down is probebly the best bet to go with since I don't do much hiking in overly wet places anyway. :)”

“One thing I didn't see pointed out is that synthetic breaks down over time from compressing. In other words, if you take 10 trips your syn bag won't be as warm as it was on your 1st trip. Down pretty much will be as warm/have as much loft as the 1st trip.

Check out campmor brand bags. They are pretty good beginner bags. I have the 20* model and it was only $110 or so. That doesn't really help you with the REI dividend check, but you could use that for another item.”

“PS, I have a buddy who lives in Portland. He said I was nuts to consider syn. He said that if he could use down, anyone could use down.”

“The REI downtime bags are very nice, for the $. Several of us folks in MI have them and no one has any complaints. Birch has one that's about six years old and still is as good as my brand new one.”

“I have avoided down for two reasons: lost of loft when wet and I have a feather allergy. That leaves one choice: synthetic!”

“You live in CA. It is never humid here. Get a down bag.”

“I've used synth for the last 10 years. And, I've had the same one for the last 3 yrs. It has been slept in it hundreds of times, it's gotten wet, dried, been washed, dried some more, etc. It's a 15 degree and I love it. The loft will compress over time, but I've personally never noticed a loss in it's ability to keep me warm in temperatures +20 degrees. It's simply not as packable.”

“.... as down, duh.”

“I've got a MH king tut bag that's down with a conduit shell. Had it out with only a nylon slip cover. During the night it slipped half way down the bag. Woke up with the bag shell covered in frost, yet it still had full loft. It seems the conduit breathes really well. As the frost thawed in the sun the water just beaded up and ran off.

My 20 degree Seirra design synthetic bag is about 8 years old and is really starting to break down. It's only comfortable to 50 or so now, which makes it an ideal summer bag. Plus it now fits me perfectly. Oh so comfy.”

“I've used both synth and down and have always been disappointed by how quickly synth breaks down.

However, I am considering a detour from my bias for my travels in SA. I washed my down bag a few weeks ago and man, did that mutha take a looooong time to dry -- in a drier! Fortuantely, I've never had to dry a soaked down bag on the trail but I can't imagine that it can be done. (I did get some condensation at the foot of my bag this weekend in the mtns when temps were around 10 degrees. I figure I could rig some sorta foot box cover outta pertex or something in the future.)

Anyway, I also washed a synth bag that same night (a 35 degree bag vs. a 15 degree down bag) and the sucka was dry in about 45 mins. The down bag took hours to dry, with tennis balls and all that.

So now I'm thinking ahead to living out of a backpack for a year, wanting to wash my bag, etc. I'm also thinking I'll be in all sorts of climates, rainforest, to Andes, to rainstorms, etc. and for being on the road for such a long time, it seems inevitable that my bag will get wet at some point and I'll definitely wanna wash it. So.....now I'm leaning towards getting a good synth bag. I want one as light as I can get it (preferably as close to 3 lbs as possible).

What's the best insulation? I've used PG3D and wasn't overly impressed. Maybe they've improved it in the last 5 years? What about PG Delta? Hollofill? Quallofill? I think the PG stuff is the lightest, most compressible, eh?

Anyone have a model they like? I've been thinking the Marmot bags look pretty good. What about North Face?

Thanks y'all.”

“Rosey - how the he!! did you get this S.America gig? What will you be doing... I must have missed it somewhere.

As for the bag - looks like you are on the right track!”

“Do a thread search for South America. I had one going...

Basically, my fiancee and I have been planning this for a couple of years. Self-financed. Just traveling for a year around SA.

Oh yeah. I'm looking for a bag in the 0-20 degree range, preferably in the 10-20 degree range. The NF Cat's Meow and Cat's Walk (women's) are looking pretty decent...”

“does your fiancee have a rich hot, young single sister that like tall clean-shaven that are somewhat humerous?

If so, please email me, I can always shave my goatee, and try to become humerous.”

“LOL! Sorry dude, she's one of kind with no sistahs.”

“Ability to dry is the true advantage of Synthetic over Down, 'cos I don't buy the argument that ANY wet bag is warm.

There are a truckload of different fills on the market. here is a link to a comparison of fills.

I got my wife a Woods 'City Lite 700' with lite loft, 3LBs, and a 15F temp rating. She is happy with this on a 3/4 Ridgerest for the last couple of years.
To put this bag in perspective she feels cold in our house with the temp set at 55F using a Down comforter and 2 (yes two) fleece blankets and PJ's. My side of the bed has the comforter only and just bottoms. The house temp is 55 so I can use the comforter, any hotter and I sweat.”

“I would check out Wiggies. From what people tell me they keep there loft very well. Stikmon carries one and likes the performance. Where are you Stiky?

My experience with PGHV, hollofill and quallofil is that they don't hold their loft well. PG3D performs better. No experience with the PG Delta used by TNF.”

“Rosey, I have a quallofil bag that I have used in cold weather for the last 18 years. When not in use, it has been (well?) hung to maintain it's loft. I recently cleaned it in our home washing machine and put it in our dryer and it came out as good as the day I bought it. It is a true 0 degree bag. I haven't tried the new synthetics on the market, so I don't have anything to compare it to, but this bag is top-notch in my book. My only b!tch is that it is relatively heavy and bulky. If you keep your down bag dry (has this ever really been a problem for anyone???), it'll keep you warm for less bulk and weight.”

“I have only owned two bags in my life. 20 degree synthetic, and my current 15 degree down bag. The synthetic was not cared for properly as I was a teenager when I owned it, plus I didn't know how to properly care for it...(left it stuffed for 6 months.) No loft, now it's a 40degree bag.

My down bag is wonderful, I've never had trouble keeping it dry, and it only weighs 2 lbs 13 oz. I love it:)”