my apologies to those i have offended

“i just wanted to take the time to apologize to those in the roe v wade thread i may have offended. this is a subject i feel very strongly on also, and most discussions usually end up with me in an emotional lather (altho not quite as lathered as lee), so i tried to hold back, with bad results. i ended up making snide, off the cuff speculations which caused me to be thought of as some ultra-conservative dittohead.

i will just state my position is this: ethically (or morally), abortion violates the right of the unborn child to live. no amount of statistics about the plight of the living you can throw at it changes anything. preventing a wrong thing does not justify doing another wrong thing. there are two persons involved, not just "your body".

HOWEVER

legally, until there is a change in the constitution stating personhood starts at conception, i have to (technically) agree with roe v wade. why? because morality cannot be legislated, only civil rights, and the unborn do not yet have civil rights. and if abortion were outlawed, it would still go on, in the form of back-alley, or worse procedures.

i hope i havent opened a can of worms again, but i noticd my name several times followed by "look at this idiot" rants, and i think, "you know what, i did give them good reason to think that"

sorry”

“Just don't break any zippers on your sleeping bag and complain out that. It's much worse.”

“i have a cats meow 20 degree synthetic (i think) down filled. never had a problem with zipper snags, and im infamous for zipper snags. maybe youre a total clutz ;)”

“Clam up, Artex, this is a thread for men :)”

“You should see him when he jams his zippers on his tent its way too funny!

8)”

“LOL! CMB is ratting you out Artex!”

“No 2scoops!!!!!


8)”

“Thank you for your frank discussion and blanket apology, although I don't see where one is needed.

This is an issue of great contention nationwide and there are no easy answers. I know personally that if I was in that situation I would want my child. Thankfully I'm happily married with two kids and that situation never arose in my life. But, I do support a womans right to choose, as does the constitution, and do most religious orders. Remember "Judge not, lest ye be judged". The final assessment of ones right or wrong decisions is not one for mortal man to make.

All you can ask of anyone is to listen to their heart and do what they think is right.

As Ringo so succintly put it....

"It don't come Easy"..”

“i was just thinkin, we're all supposed to be friends, there are so few of us backcountry lovers, and then i see some of us getting labeled (and for that matter, libeled) as ignorant rednecks just cuz we side with the right and not the left. dont call me an ignorant redneck, and i wont call you a pseudo-intellectual liberal pansy. ; )”

“Shaddap, ya psuedo-redneck.”

“last time i checked, i wasnt sporting a mullet. and i HATE garth brooks”

“I'd hike with you, 2scoops.

As long as I didn't hear banjo music :)”

“Can't we all just be friends?

Ha Ha!!!!!


8)”

“im going to go contribute to the genocide of the bovine nation now, and feel just fine with that, as cows do not have civil rights, and they taste so good.”

“Eat well, but mad cow disease my be the cow's revenge.

Enjoy!”

“do you agree that life begins before conception, if so, is birth control wrong, in your opinion?”

“join the crowd............when a discussion is started and you are asked your opinion, then the onus is on asker. Don't want to know, don't ask.........I, like you, never intended to hurt and never directed comments directly to any one person...............my opinion is nor changed, and if asked again, the same opinion will come out. I personally believe is a person can be hurt that esily, then stay out of the discussion.
I, like others, would rather be sippin' on some crown and a good cigar on the trail than discussing abortion.”

“For once I agree with you Jello!

8)”

“then watch the weather, cause.....
pigs are flying, there is a blue moon and Hell has just froze over”

“That lasted long!

Ha Ha!!!!

8)”

“I didn't read the Roe Vs. Wade thread.. but I heard on NPR the other day that abortion is THE most common surgery performed in the U.S. It is more common than dental surgery. 1.3 million or so a year? So you may have offended more people than you think.”

“Just something to think about.”

“I just think that is sick!

8|

Life is not a mistake!”

“I don't think anybody is going to change anybody's mind here... Do you guys really need two Roe v. Wade threads?”

“I took no offense at anything you said 2scoops.”

“i didnt start this thread to go down that trail again. that said,life begins WAY before conception. you could say youve been alive since your fathers sperm and your mothers eggs formed at puberty (or whenever they form). sentience is an inevitability from conception on, altho does not begin at conception.

but no, birth control is not wrong, but if youre not ready to have a child with someone, maybe you shouldnt be having sex with someone. of course, thats an idealistic principle, and most (including myself) have not lived up to it.”

“i can relate to why you did this thread 2poops....i have been getting the same feeling lately and have stated so in a couple threads. it's like...i dunno....not worth it. people really think i'm some friggin KKK bible thumpin redneck just cuz i have an opinion and i'm not afraid to state it. but the ones who have met me know i'm really just a plain guy and i too would much rather talk about pretty much anything but abortion.



fire up a stogie and i'll break out da crown!”

“ditto”

“quit apollogizing, we all have our opinions”

“Actually BIZ, the bit on NPR stated that dental surgury as a whole would be the only surgury more common than abortion.”

“Hmmmm


LATHERED??!!! WHO THE HECK IS GETTING LATHERED??!!

I FOR ONE WOULD LIKE TO LATHER UP NEWGi. . . nevermind.


I think, if I am reading carefully . . .I was almost called a "a pseudo-intellectual liberal pansy". Good thing for those emoticons!!!

I would definelty agree with the "pseudo-intellectual liberal" part . . .I don't think I am that big a pansy though!!!!


Here my deal. I am a reasonably intelligent, tightly wound, anal retentative, control freak. BUT to the exterior world I have to project maturity and professionalism all day, in an office with a suit and tie, and with little old lady and men clients. I have to be sharp, intelligent, engaging, well read and conversant. I always have to rein in my sharper edges.


You folks . . .well . . ..you folks i can release on.


I do not argue well about politics and religion. I never have.

My wife and I agree on most stuff politically and religously, but she simply doesn't engage on the stuff we don't. She doesn't like it when I call people stupid morons who don't agree with me. Hmmm . . .I wonder why? (PS I have NEVER called my wife a stupid moron . . .but there have been occasions when I have gone off on G. Bush, or some commentary on NPR . . .she doesn't think I argue well either!)

I am open minded about factual things. If I state a "fact", and I am wrong I am very accepting of being corrected. I would rather be corrected if I am wrong about some empirical bit of knowledge. I have very little ego about being wrong on stuff.

However . . .about non-empirical, opinion type stuff . . . I can be fairly . . . .uh . . . .dogmatic. To say the least.

I think I am right about certain things. And I don't have a lot of tolerance for arguements or positions I find "stupid" (no offense to anyone here!!!! ; )

I know that it isn't polite, I know that it is not "good arguing" . ..but . . . I just don't know why I should bother. Its always a rehash of the old positions. Nothing changes.

I will be the first to say that it is the anonymonity of the internet that allows me to get away with it. I can draw bright line with a flamethrower when Stratdewd (for exmaple)says something I don't like with no particular consequence. It is a great release of pent up energy! I certainly couldn't (nor would I) conduct myself similarly in "real" life.

In "real" life, if someone brought up abortion, or religion I would nod, smile, say some platitude or other bland nothing and walk away.

I used to have great arguments in college . . .stay up late drinking and arguing about this, that or the other.

It was great to be so passionate, so involved, so committed. Somewhere in my junior year, which I spent in England, I had an epiphany: That none of it mattered. The next paper I had to write (Clausewitz, "The Causes of War") had been written by hundreds of underclassmen before me . . .and would be written by hundreds more. All the BIG arguements for and against God, Abortions etc had already been waged. It was pointless.

Arguing for the "intellectual construct" . . .that is, how clever could you be was pointless . . .if someone cuaght you in a clever logical trap . . .who cared????? If 2scoops somehow caught me in a logical inconsistency with regard to abortion . . ..It won't change my mind. If he catches me in a logical trap regarding my disbelief in a higher power . . .it won't change my mind. Its just semantics . ..just arguing for the sake of arguing. I decided it was pretty dumb. A waste of my time, and I stopped enjoying it.

And I got nasty. If someone pitched an arguement that I thought was dumb . .. .I simply said . . .That is dumb. Or, worse . . .YOU are dumb.

I loved logic in college, i loved theorems and proofs. I got an A . . .but arguing stuff that has no beginning and no end and is a matter of belief systems (or lack thereof) is pointless. Sure . . .you can try to apply a logical construct to it . . .but why bother? Who says people are logical? Why can't I believe both in "Pro-life" vis a vis "Abortion" yet also believe in pro-death vis a vis the capital punishment??? or vice versus??




Anyhoo . . . TT is the only place that I still exorcise my violent arguing.

TO be honest . . .I don't care that much. I would like to apologize for hurting anyones feelings . .but the other side of me askes . . .hw can anyone's feelings get hurt on the web???

I never understood the exodus of folks who "got their feelings hurt"

HIker Boy (tarp rats thread hiker boy is a big doo doo head" was a clasic)

Nigal

Tarp Rat himself


I can udnerstand leaving because of the time drain . . .but how can a bunch of strangers on the net hurt my feelings???


Anyhoo . . .If it is possible that someone did let my rantings affect their sense of well being . . .sorry. And call Pedxing for a consult. ;-}~”

“Its comments like the one quoted below which cause me to shake my head in wonder. 2scoops, how can anyone buy the crap you're selling?

" that said,life begins WAY before conception. you could say youve been alive since your fathers sperm and your mothers eggs formed at puberty (or whenever they form)." 2scoops

Un-f'n-believable!”

“I scanned the 2003 calendar. No blue moons this year.
Oh well.”

“So Lee, did you write the paper?”

“Didn't we get to have two or three last year Gojo? I like blue moons.”

“Two or three. I don't remember exactly.”

“"people really think i'm some friggin KKK bible thumpin redneck just cuz i have an opinion and i'm not afraid to state it."

Stratdewd

O c'mon.... no body would be silly enough to think that you friggin KKK bible burnin redneck.”

“Lee, you're cool! :-)”

“Oh and while we are not going down that road again... is it alive? or does it have the potential to form human life? are not the questions.

#1: If the question was "is it alive?" we'd have to limit ourselves to eating food that fruits and nuts and things that died of their own accord. As well as being against all capital punishment, war or use of deadly force.

#2: Some people have suggested that most fertilized human eggs do not reach maturity - that many fail and are re-absored or washed out during menstruation and are not noticed.

#3: If potential for human life were the essence, male masturbation and birth control would be forms of murder.”

“HOLY MOTHER OF ALL THAT IS GOOD BAD AND UGLY!!

Pedxing --

If masturbation is murder, I've got some serious serious explaining to do!”

“lee youre right, so instead of trying to be all logical here im just going to say

LIMPY SHUT THE #&%!$ UP!”

“Although Ped --

The Catholic church would absolutely agree with you. Isn't masturbation (by guys)a "venial" sin????? (spilling your seed on the ground etc etc)”

“there i feel much better. an egg is alive, a sperm is alive. its just a different way of looking at things. but please go ahead and kill all the sperm you want. ive killed many of my own”

“Yes Limpy. I wrote that paper. And every paper that followed. But unfortunately a lot of the fun was gone. I did some great reading. I had constructed an independent major at Colby College (Maine). How's this for a mouthful "International Political and Economic Relations". I had a very hard time getting through my independent thesis becuase of the lack of focus (caring).

I started taking more "fun" classes where I could simply enjoy myself. Shakespeare, Music, Art, Astronomy.


Lyra --

Thanks. You know, Tarp sure as hell knew how to deflate the piss out of people. It was fun to watch. I used to get a real kick out of it.”

“leave it to Peddy-pie to get to the heart of the situation!
:-D

yeah, Tarpy's a funny mofo, Lee!”

“Finally an educational thread!”

“I'm very glad I stayed out of the roe v wade discussion.

Lee, you and Ped have said everything I would have on this matter and the matters surrounding it. I really need to thank you both for doing so, because it kept me from having to type it all :)”

“but I still like cheeseburgers”

“Hey Scoopy, why don't you mourn around a steaming pile of soiled sanitary products?”

“I don't think anybody is going to change anybody's mind here... Do you guys really need two Roe v. Wade threads?"
Artex
07:33:13 PM
01/26/03

Now I'm offended!”