Jackson Hole

“This summer we are going to Jackson and Yellowstone. Just wondering what kind of protection I should take. We want to be in the back country for about a month. Any advice you could offer would be appreciated”

“Stay away from that Spade guy”

“search the threads for "bear". Been plenty of discussion.

Also read a book by Steven Herrero, "Bear Attacks: Their Causes and Avoidance". Don't wair to read it in your tent. It'll scare the #&%!$ out of you.”

“While we're on the topic...you should take bear spray. That's going to be an awesome trip!”

“Bring alot of money for the tourist trap attacks in Jackson Hole. That's my advice.”

“Does bear spray really work, never been around the big bears, but lots of black bears. Am i even aloud to carry my gun. I just have experience in Yosemite and Arizona.”

“I sometimes carry a Ruger .44 magnum in serious bear country. Way too heavy of course but comforting to know it's a bear stopper especially loaded with high performance ammunition. I'm sure I'm fixin' to get flamed for it but I don't care what anyone else thinks about it.”

“Gun in a National Park?
Hmmmm. Not likely.

If you are going to where wildlife is - any wildlife - you are the visitor. You know that there is a certain element of danger (more self-inflicted than animal related, ie, falling off ledge), so if you're not willing to face the challenges, perhaps you should reconsider - ie, Disney World, D.C, etc?

When you enter the bears' domain, you are taking risks of attack, for sure, but the risk is miniscule. If you're packing heat, the probability of injury increases dramatically. Just recently, a 16 y/o girl was shot while taking her morning pee on the GA AT. The hunter thought she was a deer. This happens - none of us are above making terrible mistakes.

Who's to say that you would not mistake a hiker with a neutral-colored pack cover for a bear:
"I swear it looked like a bear, what with the way the light played off the pack. Besides, a bear passed through our camp just last night - his tracks are everywhere. I figured he must still be around somewhere, so I took my gun to the 'bathroom' with me. Then, just as I was raising back up (trying to zip my pants with one hand, and hold the gun with the other),there he was - just standing there in the early morning mist. Watching. Waiting.. etc, etc."

Or even worse, IMO, you actually kill and/or maim a bear. You, a human, knowing full well that you could have done a thousand other things besides venture into HIS country, make a conscience decision do so nevertheless, with every intention of killing if necessary.

How dare you, et al.”

“I figured I'd get a lecture from someone but like I said I really don't care what people say. Besides I'm not pulling the trigger unless I'm actually attacked. I'm not about to shoot something "I thought" was a bear. You traipse thru someplace like The Winds or Bob Marshall with pepper spray that's up to you but I've more than just myself to think about. YOu ever take a guided trip in someplace like the Bridger Tetons or Alaska you'll notice you outfitters are armed to the teeth.”

“Albeit guns are not allowed in National Parks.”

“Okay, good. I thought this thread might have been another Michael joke.”

“Forget about the bears; watch out for moose. There are far more cases around here of "Death by Moose" than bears.”

“A moose once bit my sister.”

“No realli! She was Karving her initials on the møøse
with the sharpened end of an interspace tøøthbrush given
her by Svenge - her brother-in-law - an Oslo dentist and
star of many Norwegian møvies: "The Høt Hands of an Oslo
Dentist", "Fillings of Passion", "The Huge Mølars of Horst
Nordfink"...”

“Yumpin' Yimminy!”

“Mynd you, møøse bites Kan be pretty nasti...”

“LOL bitpusher! If you actually remember all that you are a bigger Python geek than me. And the thread just fell over the cliff.”

“I'm cutting and pasting it from the IMDB "crazy credit" page for MPATHG...”

“something "I thought" was a bear."

Sorry, Charlie, but you're only human. I don't, for one minute, believe that you are some kinda immortal, infallible being that is above making a mistake. Making mistakes, in general, are a part of "growing", I 'spose, and are therefore usually harmless. But, dude, when we make mistakes with firearms...

Your statement smacks of arrogance. You fail to exhibit any humility whatsoever. You and yorn frighten me.

I was raised looking at setter and pointer butts. I've spent more time stalking than regular walking.
I am a creature of the woods. I heed the "Call of the Wild" in every way. However, when I hunt, I hunt. When I backpack, I backpack. Nowhere in the twain, IMO, do the two meet.

When I'm hunting, my thoughts and actions are first and foremost about the gun. That is a requirement of any true, serious gunsportsman. Can you honestly claim to give that kind of dedication to a firearm for days on end? When I'm not hunting, the gun is in the truck - chamber empty, safety on, truck door locked. Babysit a gun on a six day hike? Dude - do you want to "hike", or do you want to "babysit"? If you bring a gun, you're obliged to exercise your responsibility to focus on the gun - first and foremost; your EVERY waking hour. It's like a three y/o: you CAN'T let it our of your sight for one second.

Me? I'd much rather smell the roses.


Remember:
Horsepackers are not to be confused with backpackers. Their similarities end at the pre-hike coffeeshop. Horsepackers spend a sedintary existence. They sit all comfy, high above the terrain. They stay rested - any exertion is conducted by the stock. Their minds are sharp (insert chuckle here), and their day is filled with thoughts of folly. They sleep soundly on cushy cots beside the warm glow of a stove. The hiker/horser comparison applieseth not.

The summertime horsepackers are also the autumn hunting guides. They have "packing heat in the backcountry" down to a science. They can more easily accomodate and store firearms than backpackers can.

They have gear. TONS of gear. Something go bump in the night? Step out the door of the wall tent and shine the million-candle-power spotlight over there. It's three deer: a mama and two twin button-heads.

Now, shine you Tikka over there. Bear? Person? Log? Rock? Moving? Motionless?

Quit fretting, hikinokie - SHOOT ALREADY!


Okay, here we go...
(drumroll, please)
You're frightened. You're afraid of the dark of night and the shadows of day. To appease your low self esteem - your edgy ego - you pack a gun.
"Now! I'm a MAN! I ain't skeerd of NOTHIN'!"

C'mon, man.
Let loose - throw yourself out there...
literally to the wolves, if necessary.

You'll soon learn that, in reality, the backcountry of The Winds, Teets, Beartooths, Lemhis, Sawtooths, and White Clouds (griz country that this GA boy has hiked) are nothing to fear.

And, PLEEEEEZ, if you do happen to be packin', and you DO HEAR something go bump, and you crawl, gun first, out of the vestibule of your tent, please please whisper: "gojo, is that you?"”

“Considering that our neck of the woods is looking at an over all snowpoack this winter of less than 50% of normal and we are in the fifth year of a drought, I'd be more concerned with wildfire danger than bears at this point.”

“I've lived in Montana for almost 30 years and I have never heard of anyone downing a Grizzly with a pistol. I've heard of ranchers blasting a few from a distance, who were attacking their sheep, with a rifle. You're more likely to shoot your foot off running around the hills with a pistol.

to paraphrase micah, lnt=lgh”

“What? You'll be with others? Kids?
Holy cow - you WILL have to babysit that hunk'o metal.


Drought conditions can also keep bears in the low country. That's where the water will be. The highcountry would likely be dry and pert near berry-free.

Vegetation would likely be plentiful creekside, tho.

Just stay on the trail - where the bears would expect you to be. Don't be stupid and breakout crosscountry - especially in dense foilage.”

“DONT BE TALKIN SMACK ABOUT JANET NOW”

“I don't carry a gun when I go out, but I agree with okie that if I took one I could distinguish between being attacked by a huge bear and just seeing a backpacker. If some strange backpacker is charging me like a bear then I might want to shoot him anyway. LOL”

“You'll shoot your eye out, you'll shoot your eye out.”

“OK gojo, I get your point. Even tho I consider myself a careful person in the backcountry I can see how fatigue or illness could affect your judgement. The pistol is in the pack while I'm hiking. I guess if I get jumped I'm just toast. But I do strap it on in camp keeping it in mind how lethal the thing is. I'm not overly concerned in this part of the country but where the griz are thick I will admit I'm afraid of them. Last trip into the winds went offtrail bushwhacking over a saddle and contouring around a mountail to get to lake loaded with cutthroat. In the middle of nowhere we came across a giant fresh pile of bear scat and tracks nearly the size of dinner plates. If we were charged there was absolutely nothing we could have done about it. Scare bear was somewhere near.........”

“Are you serious? I've never seen one up close. :o)”

“Jus do like me.
RUN THE NOTHER WAY!
BOL!

Gissmo aint skeerd tho. He would prolly ressel a bare. He has curage and defens me perty good. I would still run tho!”

“O yeh.
When me and my daddy was at Wyodaho at the Windtooths we did not see no bares. I smeld some tho and seen doodoos.

A bare got in the kimp one time when we was truk kimpin but I sayed "get a way from aroun here you old bare!" and the bare RUND! I gess he rund - me and my daddy stayed in the tent! Then we RUND to the truk in a minit!

We was SKEERDY CHIKKENS!”

“I guess the moose thing is sorta like the question, "What animal (other than humans) in Africa kills the most humans?"

Lion? nope
Hyena? nope
Elephant? Crocodile? Big-ass snake?nope nope nope

Hippopotamuses. Apparently they tip over boats a lot, and drown people.”

“In the U.S. it's:

Bears? no
Wolves? no
Moose? no
Mountain Lions? no

Bees? Yes!”

“but they jus looked at me and I looked at them. My daddy sayed "go smell ther stinky butts" and I sayed "NO WAY HOSAY!"

Them are skeery aminals!”

“There was a program on Animal Planet, I think, a couple of months ago, about the most deadly animals, in terms of planetwide death totals. I thought it was unfairly biased towards the larger, deadly animals, because they disqualified the most deadly animal in the world (other than humans) because it's sting doesn't actually kill anyone. I mean, if mosquitoes kill >1,000,000 people a year because they transmit malaria that way, why shouldn't that count?

Their number 1: Snakes, with about 100,000 deaths per annum worldwide.”

“Did you get any snow up there last night? I see Red Lodge is claiming 7 to 9 inches. We got pretty heavy rain before it turned to snow. Only a couple inches and it is starting to melt already. Gonna have to go skiing some time...soon.”

“Webb Canyon trail in the Tetons...come around a bend in the trail and encounter a grizzly sow and cub. The sow bluff charged me and I about croaked. I had a huge canister of pepper spray in a holster. The bear charged so incredibly fast I didn't have a chance to pull the spray out of the holster. Needless to say, I shortened my trip that time since I had to make a 180 on the trail.

Hikinokie: what county you from? I grew up in the county where "Will" is buried.”

“very well put, gojo. i couldnt agree more. if you dont feel safe entering an area without a firearm, you shouldnt enter it. even a newbie like me knows that”

“of the nra. anyone who wants to buy a gun has to go see gojo first”

“Tulsa County”

“wow cairn you are really lucky. its a good thing she was bluffing. i think i wouldve #&%!$ my pants right then and there. walking solo into grizz country is really like playing russian roulette.”

“I am the NRA.

I encountered a griz (first and only) where they *supposedly* hadn't been in fifty years. The mtn range is in ID. It was a surprise for both of us. He quickly fled, but it was the most exhillerating few seconds of my life. I felt absolutely no fear.

I include the Sawtooths and White Clouds (not where I saw bear, btw) as griz country. There is even suspicion that they might exist as far south as Wimenuche Wilderness, CO. The map had griz info, anyways.”

“You may be right about the Weminuche but there is more evidence of griz in the South San Juan Wilderness east of there. scat, hair samples etc.”

“I thought I'd bring this back up.

I did the 18 mile Cascade Canyon/Paintbrush Canyon loop in early July '99.

I was passing thru JH enroute to ID. Upon seeing the Teets, I decided to do an overniter - If such a route existed.

I stopped at the Visitors Center in Moose Jct to get the skinny. I camped at Gros Ventre CG that night.

The next morning, I stopped at an outfitter store in Moose and rented crampons and an ice ax as per the VC Ranger's recommendation. They weren't absolutely necessary, but made crossing Paintbrush Divide much easier.

I was early p.m. hitting the trail, and camped at the Upper Cascade Canyon camping area that night. The camping area had only one other tent, and it was well out of site from me. A microburst had leveled a swath of trees a couple hundred feet wide, from one side of the canyon to another. I pitched my tent amongst some blowdowns for protection from predators (not that a griz would not have been able to move the logs). I cooked several hundred feet away in an unoccupied campsite. I stored cooking supplies and hung my food bag there as well.

Next morning, I ascended the divide, and decended Paintbrush Canyon to the Lake (???) trailhead. It was *almost* dark, and I had to fly to Moose to return the rentals before 9 p.m. closing time.

That morning I had sat in my tent viewing a pair of mule deer bucks with my binoculars. They were 5x5s in full velvet. Nice.

From the trailhead to Paintbrush Divide, via Paintbrush Canyon, is a 4000' elevation gain in eight miles. Can you say "strenuous"? Fortunately, I inadvertantly chose to do a clockwise loop, which had me descending Paintbrush. That woulda otherwise been a very difficult ascent to the divide.

The view from Paintbrush Divide is unsurpassed. Anywhere.

I WILL do an extended hike in the Teets someday...”

“I admire your tenacity in doing THAT hike as an overnighter. That's pretty hardcore.”