Kayak gear help

“Birch and I are going to be shopping for paddles and pfds once the tax return comes in. My questions are:

Is carbin the only way to go for all day paddling?

(Om) are pfds designed for females really made to fit a female or just less foam?

I suppose I'll find out the pfd answer when I try them out but really would appreciate any input on paddles. $300 seems like a whole lot of money for a paddle, but if it makes the experience that much better.....

What do you think? What do you use?”

“what kind of paddling are you going to do, flatwater, ocean, whitewater? i've done all three, though not as much ocean and found carbon fiber is really the best way to go...$300?!?! there's really no need to go that high though, i got a decent whitewater paddle for $100 about 4 years ago and never had any problems up until the time i sold it. as for the women's vest's, yes, they make a huge difference! i paddle in the Lola (by Lotus Designs i think)...it came out about 4-5 years ago as one of the first "girl" jackets and it is so incredibly...it's not just a matter of less foam, but more so where they put it. this is the only vest i found that doesn't jack up around my ears when i get into a boat. when you're trying one on, grab a paddle, sit down on something low to the ground and actually simulate paddling, it's really the only way to know how you'll feel in one. they're a bit more pricey but completely worth it, especially for long trips. just holler if you need more help, i worked in a kayak/canoe shop for a few years, so i've seen a little bit of most everything...good luck!”

“Sass --

I wish I could remember brand names here.

My wife and I spent $140 a piece on good lightweight paddle by . . . .I can't remember. You can certainly spend $300 on lighter carbon fiber or whatever, with the honey comb interior paddle (the inside of the blade is full of holes, less weight)but you also give up some strength. I just figured that as beginners we would be abusing our paddles so much that I didn't want to spend $300 and snap them up.

My understanding is that lighter paddles DO make a difference on an all day paddle. But, with two kids ages 7 and 4 . . .we were going to be out for more than 3 hours or so at a time anyway.


RE: WOmen'd PFDs . . .yes, the high end makers 'carve out" some foam in the chest area, but make up for it elsewhere. All vest are government rated for foam content, so it has to be somewhere. If they take it out of the boob compartment, they put it elsewhere. The high end manufactures use a higher quality denser foam so they can make a better fitting less bulky vest.

Look pockets and clips onthe vest. I like my front pockets and key clip.

Get a vest that you will wear!”

“Lotus Lola. The cut does make a huge difference. Paddles, a personal choice. I don't do really long tours so iI couldn't justify the price if the carbon paddles.”

“Flatwater and river paddling, (slow rivers mainly in MI) Maybe some Great Lakes, which would be equal to sea kayaking I guess.

I know I want a paddle that breaks down, I think I want one with an oval shaft instead of round. Anyone have any experience with the different shapes?

I'll definately look for a womens' model PFD. I read about the yank on the shoulders test and pretend to paddle test when you try them on. Will definately do that!

I'm so relieved that there are good deals on lightweight paddles! The guy at REI told us no less than $150 and probably more like $300. I think we'll check other stores.

I'm so excited about getting them in the water....can't wait for spring!”

“Sass, I warned you ... a whole new set of gear to "jones" over. Plus a new "gear guide" to pour over -- the annual Canoe & Kayak magazine gear guide issue should be out about now. Usually has discussions of these very issues.

I've heard lots of good things about the Lotus women's models. As for paddles, there are so many options (shaft, materials, blade shape, break-down vs. one-piece, durability, etc.) that it will take some shopping around to as many dealers as you can (and "test driving" some, too).

If you are into a road trip, the annual Canoecopia in Madison, WI, comes up in March I believe, and you can get a first-hand look at almost all major makes and models of paddles and PFDs and other outfitting gear for your kayaks. It's the biggest paddlesports show in the U.S. and Madison is a fun, fun town, too.”

“Hey, Sass. I do a lot of flatwater and slow-river paddling. I bought a 2-piece, laminated wood paddle with a carbon ferrule and a polycarbonate tip for about $120.00 at a local shop. It's made by Perception and I really love it. It is very light and I have paddled up to 14 hours with it in one stretch. Cheasapeake Light Craft markets some great paddles as well. You don't need to spend an exorbitant amount of money for the type of paddling that you will be doing.”

“Sass--

I did a google search on women's PFD's and this name rings a bell.

I am fairly certain this is what my wife wears, and likes very much.

womes PFD”

“Saas

it din't link you straight thorugh, click on Women's PFDs. My wife, (I think) has the BetSea, and likes it.

I have the guys model of the same thing.


They were both $100, but I got them during a 15% sale.





I got what I think was a good piece of advice:
it is worth paying up for a PFD if you will be more apt to wear it.

We wear ours all the time.


I have it on now.



????”

“Cheasapeake Light Craft has some of their paddles on sale right now.”

“Uh-Oh. They also have the kit I want on sale through Feb 9th...”

“Which one ya gettin', LS?”

“I want the Chesapeake 17 or LT 17. I'm not sure. I don't need lots of gear space, but I'm 6' w/ size 11 feet.”

“Buy it LeSubtil! Think of paddling the Manistee river this summer, and not having to deal with tubers and canoe floatillas!!!! Just quiet waters....(also think of paddling circles around Tarabull in her pokey ol' canoe ;) )


Pekka....Madison....how far is that drive wise? 400 miles? You were so right about the gear. Starting out slow though, just the basics right now. lmao, the basics is soooo much!

Father Goose, perception made our kayaks and they look great. I think if I can I'm going to head out to our local paddlesport shop this week and see if I can check out some up close and personal.”

“I've been looking at the Cheasapeake 17 myself. Looks like you could stay out for a couple of weeks in that thing!”

“perception makes some good paddles, i think mine was an Aquabound, and i know they make take aparts for around $10 or less, if you can find a smaller shop, you can usually get better prices...go down to a river near you and ask others...good luck!”

“Sass --
I found our paddles by linking through the website of the place where we got them

Aquabound Trippers


aquabound paddles”

“Sass, what's 400 miles when it means a chance to stand in a convention center full of all the latest, coolest gear of your new sport, lol! (not to mention that there are show discounts on a lot of stuff, and some helpful or entertaining presentations and travelogues by experts and adventurers.

Watch for paddle shops in SE Michigan having demo days where you can check out what's what, too. Also, check for area paddle clubs -- those folks can give you good feedback on what is available in the area, and what really works on the water.

BTW, watch that dissin' of canoes. There are some of us who really like our open top craft a lot! Right tarabull?”

“My "pokey ol' canoe"? What? You don't think I'll have a kayak by this summer?”

“ok, so i really meant aquabound paddles for around $100 dollars or less...oops...”

“Sounds like a waterfight brewing between Sass and tarabull. Duck, birch!”

“OOOHHH How fun! We had some excellent water fights on the Au Sable this past summer.”

“Maybe they could do the next Miller Lite commercial.

j/k”

“I don't get it?”

“Tara-Haven't you seen the miller lite commercial where the 2 chicks are fighting in the water?”

“bbinkley, Sass and tara make those Miller women look like real Lite-weights. My money is on the TT gals in any contest, whether it involves mud or water (sounds like some trails we've all hiked, that's for sure).”

“binks - no, i haven't seen those. but, i get it now. thanks”

“lmao. I think she got it all along...


Pekka, don't tell Tara, but the best way to get her to buy a kayak is to appeal to her competitive side. Threaten to paddle circles around her and she'll be shopping for a kayak today! (and judging by the link to epaddle.com's classified ads she emailed me, she was!) It's all in the "plan". Best way to get LeSubtil to buy a kayak is to appeal to his "off the beaten track" side. Hopefully, he's already ordered his kit. If not I may have to mention the boundry waters. I'm not sure how to handle BB or Smiley...they might be lost causes. ;D

There's definately nothing wrong with canoes. I love them, grew up in them and will keep the one I have as long as it will hold together.”

“Here are two sites that will help with your research:
kayak directory #1

kayak directory #2

I use a Lotus PDF. Don't remember the model but it's a side zip. Side zips felt more comfortable when zipped, but front zips can be worn half-open a lot easier. I figured that if I had the darn thing on in the first place, I'd keep it zipped.

Whitewater and flatwater are two completely different things. I do flatwater (sea kayaking) paddling. I use a Werner Molokai paddle. I do a lot of paddling in shallow water. The Molokai had a wide blade that digs well in shallow water. I’m also a very strong paddler. Most touring blades are longer and narrower to reduce fatigue over the long haul. The Werner Camano is a very popular touring paddle. You should do a little research to determine your paddle length. Boat width and paddling style play a part in this determination. If your paddling style is more vertical, a shorter paddle will do. Most touring folks in the USA use a flatter stroke and a longer paddle length than they use in the UK. I prefer a more vertical stroke most of the time. I got a VHS about stroke technique, and decided that was a more efficient way most of the time. My Molokai, and most Werner fiberglass paddles run about $230.

If most of your paddling is short trips done in warm water, get a sit-on-top. Sit-on-tops are easier to get in and out of, they’re cooler in warm weather, you can recline back on them like an easy chair, and you can carry more gear (like coolers). I have a Cobra Tourer that is fast enough to keep up with most boats over short distances. I kept up with a guy in a Dagger Sitka kevlar boat while day tripping recently. Unless someone has an important appointment to keep (or five cups of coffee), most people paddle at a reasonably leisurely pace. For colder water, I wear paddling pants and a top if necessary.

I’m looking at getting a composite boat for longer trips in colder water. I have checked a number of brands and am seriously looking at the Kajak Sport Millenium. I’m also looking at the Werner Kalista paddle ($400). It’s a carbon fiber two-piece, bent shaft. One piece paddles may be a little less expensive, but I like the packability of the two-piece. Swift makes a very good, very light paddle as well.”

“Thanks Arclite. I'm not sure what my kayak paddling style will be but I dug deep in the canoe, so I'm guessing I'll probably do the same in the 'yak. I'm thinking about takinga beginner's class before buying the paddle....we'll see. I'd have to wait until the end of April for the class and it costs $85. That's alot of $ to put towards gear!

We already have the kayaks. We got really fortunate and found two barely used Perception Carolinas, with rudders at the last REI used gear sale. Unfortunately, there weren't any barely used paddles to go with them.

I kinda wondered if a side zip pfd would be better or worse...in and out wise. I'll probably be wearing mine 90% of the time at least.

Thanks for the sites!”

“Sass --

I took a look in the garge last night. . .our paddles are Aquabound Expedition, not Tripper.

We likethem.


$140, less 15%.”

“Ahh, the ol' psych out plan, Sass. What tricks do you use on birch to get him to do your bidding? I promise I won't tell him your secrets!”

“Fortunately Birch and I are on the same page. He mostly wants the same things as me. =)

"We're like two people spanning time" ~from the movie Buffalo 66 (don't rent it, it was pretty bad)”

“Abby's a lucky little girl to have such harmonious congruence between her parental units ;).”

“Pekka, March 14-16th is the deal in Madison. I think I'll be at Red River Gorge then.

Isn't there a deal at whitefish point or pictured rocks in fall? I couldn't find anything in MI. We're lame, I guess.”

“There is a sea kayak symposium each year at Grand Marais. Don't know the time of year though.

The Canoe & Kayak Magazine Buyer's Guide may have info on upcoming shows, clinics and symposia.”

“That's where I was looking, online. Maybe I'll go purchase a paper copy. I'd like to see those reviews anyhoo.”

“Sass --

Buffalo 66 was possibly the worst movie i have ever seen.


David Mamet is either truly terrible . Or so deep and intellectual that he is awesome and I simply don't get it. [this is a distinct possibility, I am pretty shallow].”

“Just because you're shallow doesn't mean you shouldn't wear your PFD, lee. (just trying to keep the thread on topic)

Mamet takes some getting used to -- very stylized dialogue and layered contexts. His fascination with subterfuge (the con) and complex behavior can (and probably purposely does) obscure the "big picture."”

“I loved Buffalo 66. One of my favorite 3 or 4 movies.”

“...and there is a Kayak Symposium in Grand Marais, Mi. My brother took me there 2 summers ago.”

“Le Subtil -

It must be me. Rumour had it the Mamet was good . . .it must be like modern art . . .which I also hate.


Its me. . .I just don't get.



Anyhoo . . . pekka . .I am soooo shallow [how shallow are YOU lee??] . .. I am sooo shallow that I don't need no stinkin pfd cause I float ont he surface even in deep water!







PS: in the interest of full disclosure I wear my pfd ALL the time, even in tidal marshes where the bottom is scraping the underside of the boat at low tide.”

“One of the hardest things I am having to get used to about sailing and sailors is that in most instances, they don't wear PFDs out on the water. It has to be fairly severe weather, or they are in really small boats that are known to tip easily (and even then it is usually only the kids that are made to wear the PFDs).

In the sailing seminar I went to Saturday, the instructions for "man overboard" was to "shout it out to the crew, then throw a PFD to the person, then appoint a spotter to keep visual contact."

Well, an unconcious or hurt person is going to have a heck of a time dealing with a PFD after they are in the water. Then again, compared to being in a canoe or kayak, there is a lot more activity in the sailboat where a PFD may be a hindrance.

A new paradigm for this water safety concious ol' Boy Scout.”

“I'm not sure how to handle BB or Smiley...they might be lost causes. ;D



I am a lost cause as far as the kayak, I'm trying to pay for a new kitchen!”

“mmmmmm Kayak's”

“Lee: I think it's just me. I relate to the twisted nature of that movie. I'm a little twisted myself. That poor gut was so close to the edge, and got rescued by an equally twisted babe.
FWIW I hate modern art too.”

“It wasn't terrible, just slow. Some parts were freakin' hilarious. I loved the "two people spanning time" thing and how his mom kept trying to feed him chocolate or whatever it was he was alergic to.”

“"Pekka, don't tell Tara, but the best way to get her to buy a kayak is to appeal to her competitive side. Threaten to paddle circles around her and she'll be shopping for a kayak today! (and judging by the link to epaddle.com's classified ads she emailed me, she was!)"
-Sassafras

She's right (boy, she really knows me!)... and it's a done deal...

Purchased the Perception Carolina today. Also, picked up the Expedition AMT CarbonFibre paddle.

PFDs and other accessories to follow.

I'm one happy camper...err, paddler... :-D”

“That is killer!!!!!! I'll be getting mine within the next few months. Happy paddlin'! :-)”

“bad links, homey...”