military vs. nature

“Did anyone hear the segment on NPR this morning about the military fighting environmental rules concerning land usage for military training?

They want to turn the very land they are supposed to be protecting into a battlefield.

Sounds like they want to relax restrictions that protect endangered plants and animals among other things.

The sad thing is that they'll probabley get it done with Bush in power. Where does it all end?”

“yeah, i heard that indiana, i couldn't believe it, i think the one colonel said "if i had my way, the marines could do whatever they want, wherever they want..." it'll be interesting to see what happens...i can't think of any group that needs reign even on grounds of national security, we can all exist together, it just may be a little harder god forbid...”

“If Bush has his way they'll be able to play in Iraq. ;-)”

“Well, you have heard NPR's leftist side.
Here is a link to the rightwing side.
I like to view all sides of an opinion before forming mine. I read both left and right.”

“Hold on a minute......I didn't hear the NPR Story. Are they talking about any federal lands ( like my favorite Wilderness Area) or military reservations? The distinction makes a huge difference. Before the emotions start flaming here, get the facts.”

“We want Flame Throwers at 50 paces.”

“From what I've read, it's for military reservations.”

“That "right wing side" is a rather stale piece of "news".....six months old.

The NPR report is not the left wing side, but rather politically neutral.
You won't hear any buzz-words and inflammatory crap such as, "life and death" and "lap-dogs of green extremists" and "hamstrung".

Let us not forget that the military in the U.S. works for all of us.
The commander in chief is a civilian, even though he thinks he's king of the world.”

“TT - That was commentary clearly labeled as such. Not news.”

“"The NPR report is not the left wing side, but rather politically neutral."

Did you really say that?”

“You know you're a right-wing conservative when you automatically avow that the truth must be leftist propaganda.”

“The NPR story simply told the story.

Any notion that it was anti-military or pro-environment is paranoia.”

“Stovestomper, although I would only hope that NPR would do its best to be neutral in its reporting, I agree that they can sometimes spin a biased report. But it is far from the propoganda you linked here.

I'd be interested in reading more on the issue from a more neutral stance.”

“NPR is so far to the left they can only go in circles. The fact that Tom thinks they are a neutral news source confirms this.”

“i don't know why anyone expects the news to be neutral. "news" isn't out there, growing on a tree or something. what is "news" is chosen by people, and written by people. and everyone has their own perspective and opinions...right?”

“The NPR story used Camp Pendleton in SoCal as an example. It is the largest undeveloped area in Scouthern California about 200 squrae miles with sevral miles of beachfront, urban sprawl has made it the only place in the area where many endangered and rare plants and animals exist.

Where was the outcry as the rest of the area was turned it subdivisions and strip centers?”

“Gee, maybe the developers bought the politicians.....ya think?”

“wow...i can see arguments from both points of view but i can't agree with what either side is asking for: we can't grant the military complete immunity nor can we say absolutely no exceptions, no compromise, no way. even as a conservative, i found some parts of the article from the worldnet link a little hard to swallow...”

“Yeah, NPR is sooooo far to the left they're almost in the middle!^]”

“lyra, if you're putting your perspective and opinion in the story than you're writing commentary. A good news reporter should present the facts and the views and perspectives of those involved if that's the case, as it is here. The story here is the views of the environmentalists vs. the views of the military on a specific issue.

not the views of the reporter!”

“"you're an extremist!"

"no no, YOU'RE an extremist!"”

“Well, I think nature will win in the end......(military vs. nature)


Kamakaze(Divine Wind) beat the Monguls(?)”

“Sounds like NPR was reporting on this Bill. ”

“yeah, Indiana John...but someone, somewhere decides that this qualifies as "news," and that person probably knows which "side" he or she is on, and that probably effects how it is reported. and i think that whether or not the reporter wants to incorporate his or her own perspective, it's impossible not to, through the words they choose, the way they phrase things.”

“Right-wing, Left-wing, yadda yadda.
So anyway, sounds like it is a military reservation they were reporting on.

Before you all continue to flame back and forth about where on some make-believe political spectrum NPR should be........someone do your homework and determine if federal military lands are subject to ALL the same federal regs that say a national forest is subject to.

If they are not, then, until it's changed, back off and let them do what they want. They do need to practice and that does usually entail wrecking things. War is like that from what I can tell.

Just because Bush is a civilian, doesn't mean he has to stop doing something if he's allowed by law to do it. Save the emotional crap.”

“Sure, as I stated before, some bias can leak into a story, But the point here is that NPR 's reporting is far from being "leftist"

The person who decides what's news is the Editor and he shouldn't "probably knows which "side" he or she is on,"

When I worked for a newspaper, we would hold editorial meetings on particularty sticky issues. We tried to make sure all angles were covered. If time permitted we'd even run stories by the Sports or Lifestyles editors to see if maybe we had overlooked an angle.”

“Thanks chili for reserching that........ The MERA sounds pretty good as an attempt to rein in the military's sovereign immunity. Is it wise to do it though? Too much civilian control can backfire. LBJ in Vietnam, CLinton (Les Aspin) in Somalia.”

“JO, I have mixed emotion on it. I have been on military bases and know the kind of evironmental damage that occurs. However, how do you adequately train a mechanized unit by telling them to make sure they don't do any environmental harm while deploying 100 tracked vehicles? I don't think there is much of a way to stay within the EPA guidelines while conducting a live fire exercise.”

“well said chilie. without the military, we'd have no country to take care of, no environment to protect.


as far as NPR being neutrtal...gimme a friggin break. it's THE MOST liberal source of news out there. i can admit that fox leans right, why can't you "honest" libs admit NPR is liberal leaning?

and don't bring up limbaugh or other talk shows. that's comparing apples to oranges. talk shows are COMMENTARY not news . and they clearly state where they are coming from. a "legit" news source that "pretends' to be neutral is a hanious thing. when polled anomously, reporters and anchors(not talk show hosts) came in at the mid 80% for the democrats. let's round down for simplicity. call it %80. %80 percent voted for al gore. so did that affect the way they covered the election and all the halabaloo following it? well DUHHHH! they "proclaimed" florida as going to al gore befor the poles closed, causing many republicans in the eastern half of florida to go home and not vote at all. also, they reported very little on al gore's team disenfranchising military votes from offshore and overemphasized the black voters problems. i would not know about any of this without talk shows. because the "big media" will never admit to being biased because they would loose alot of their audience.



NPR....liberal...and subsidized by you, the taxpayer. you are paying this station to spread the liberal view of the world. if the gubment helped pay for fox news, ya'll would be havin coniptions. that's the truth of the matter.


i'm sorry, ,but that how i feel....now get outta here....

as neil bortz says.....the truth is out there....”

“I heard the segment this morning. It was slanted.

NPR is biased all to hell. They strongly support protesters and minority(?) activists. Even yesterday they seemed to lean toward those who make a career out of protesting and organizating protests. I am an anti-protester.”

“After the private sector disrupted all of the other available habitat for these endangered species, they moved to the only available land left. The military reservation is now expected to take care of a problem that the private sector should have remedied a LONG time ago. I think the commander who said that they could live with having sections of the base be off-limits to some types of disruptive activity was being very fair. (I'm hoping that his statement was made in an honorable and forthright way.) Anyway, I lean towards giving our military more latitude in deciding what needs to happen on a military base.
Now, if anyone on this site knows me, they know that I don't tend toward the right, politically speaking. This is the opinion I came up with after listening to the report on NPR. Sooooo...... in conclusion, some of you paranoid right-wingers need to listen a little closer to NPR. If you are afraid of them, you need help.”

“Left-right again.The people to the left of those on the left are considered to the right , by the left.And, those to the right of the right are considered left ,by those on the right.So the left and right are right and the right and left are left.Where is the middle???”

“lol saleboard. well said nowslimmer. dunadan, if you are referring to me, i ain't afraid of anything and i listen to NPR alot. i drive 4,000 miles a month and have alot of ear time. what i'm afraid of is the mind numbed masses who never even considered the fact that any news agency could lean one way or another. people hear something like this and take it as the last word on the subject. i like you stance on this issue(military bases), it is well thought out and not extreme. my thought is, if we're sending these guys into harms way, they need to be as well trrained as possible, in order to defend themselves, and thusly need to train without any restrictions. i think this can be done within reason. i also think that some of the "endangered species" stuff is overblown by some groups.”

“Yes, yes.......more sweat on the training field, less blood on the battlefield.

However, three lefts make a right.”

“nowslimmer are you protesting protests? :~)”

“Nowslimmer, in today's lackadaisical society, one rife with couch potatoes, it is news when people feel strongly enough to leave the comfort of their home and peacibly congregate to voice there support or displeasure with an issue.
I go nuts when a group starts chanting, bellowing and jumping up and down like some damn insane asylum (so maybe we find alittle agreement on that.)”

“My son left for basic training yesterday. Big change in my household. He wanted to do something meaningful while deciding on a career and college curriculum. I applaud his mature position but as a mom, it's tough to deal with all the same. No opinion on the NPR segment, some comments on this thread just hit close to home today.”

“dhutch, my mom went thru the same thing and my brother and i both went in within a few months of each other (she still blames us for her gray hair) i guess it's one of those bittersweet things, you're proud of him but still scared to death...be open with him and stay in touch that's all i can tell you, especially thru bootcamp, it can be a pretty lonely place...good luck to you both.”

“Thanks turtle. I don't plan on getting any grey hairs over this. It is completely useless to worry about what is outside of my control. (not that I won't keep in as much contact with the boy as possible) I am proud of him and he's a great kid. Paul (his name) has a good head on his shoulders, God will take care of the rest of the plan.”

“While doing annual training at Gowen Field in Idaho, near Boise and the State Pen., we would run all over the place in our Armored Personnel Carriers (APC) and tear up all kinds of sagebrush and stuff like that. After the mission training, we would have to go back and replant silver sage, a protected species, and also if one of our vehicles leaked fuel or oil or antifreeze we would have to dig up the contaminated dirt to dispose of.
I think that these are not unreasonable requests of the military. We need to reuse our training facilities as much as possible, and by doing a few simple things for the environment, the military ensures its contined usage of these areas.
In the Yakima Firing Center, we had to stay away from the riparian areas because the tracked vehicles would do way to much damage to the sensitive environment. Other than that, we pretty much had free access to everywhere else.”

“good deal dhutch, sounds like you have your head on straight, what service did he join?

and tahoe, i agree, we all have to share and that means compromise on both sides, i believe the military should be given a little more leeway but they should also be willing to give back as much as possible...”

“Army, headed for Fort Leanardwood, Missouri in the Ozarks. I'm already thinking that when I go down for his graduation in May a backpacking trip may be in order!”

“dhutch1.....there was a good story on NPR last month about a writer from Boston, a self-described Volvo driving liberal, whose son had joined the Marines. His children had all gone to a prestigious private school, the older daughters having gone off to college. His son had done very well in school and could have gone to any school but chose to join up. Neighbors and teachers all called to "console" him. What Horsesh_t.

The short of it is the father came to respect his son deeply for his decision to serve his country while finishing growing up and he found a connection with the families of the other recruits that he never knew felt before.

Good luck to your son. I'm not so sure about this Iraq thing but then I feel like I can't just pick and choose. We are imperfect, we make mistakes. We are a large and dysfunctional family, but we are a family nonetheless and we need to stick together.

I've heard some teenagers, who are parrotting their aging hippy parents, talk about going off to Canada to smoke pot because this country "sucks". What? Where's the draft? They needn't worry..........other people's children will be there instead of them.

Best wishes to you and your son.”

“Tahoe, I think that's great. I have no problem with the military using the land as long a they're doing something to help protect it. Maybe some of these young guys will learn something about how precious our environment is that they wouldn't have learned otherwise”

“good for him dhutch a parking trip would be a great way to celebrate his graduation...i agree JO, since when is defending your country something you shouldn't be proud of your child for volunteering for?!”

“Jo, Turtle -- Thanks
That's about how I feel. Wouldn't have been my first choice for a definitely college material child. However, over the past 1/2 year listening to the way he made this decision, I've gained respect for my son as an adult and a pride in knowing that I had something to do with raising a young man like him. Can't believe sometimes that he turned out so well. I am truly thankful.”

“ok first off I have not read a thing on this thread. but it made me think about seeing a squirrel dressed as Rambo... LOL @ me”

“.....cussin' and firin' an M-60.....with a red bandana wrapped around his little squirrelly head”

“thats it!!!! funny thought isnt?

with a little cigar hanging out of him mouth”

“LOL POTTYMOUTH!

good luck to your fine son dutch.”