Depression

“gojo, sorry if you already posted this but have you tried therapy (i'm sure you have, but just checking)...if so, have you tried several therapists?...my wife burnt through a few before she found a good one...not every one is good for everybody...she had one tell her she should go get a slushy, she never went back
last edited: 1/02/08 12:16:50 PM”

“I tride to get him the roma therrapy seffrel times with stinky poots. They get him possative affeks for a minit but then they ware off and what never.

I will aks my dokter netx time I get a chekt up.”

“The thing I find interesting about the meds/no meds debate is that no one would seriously suggest someone suffering from a vitamin C deficiency should just "decide" the scurvy away. There are many ways to bring the vitamin C balance back into form. But given an imbalance of seratonin and norepinephrine the rules change. Suddenly only the change of attitude is needed to make the change. It just baffles me.

Thriftyhiker... I believe I was the one who set the post about dealing with the causal issues that you referred to earlier. I am delighted your wife is doing that.”

“Sarabella.. the stinky poots thing may be something affected by species. Not all species find stinky butts irresistible.”

“...don't speak for your entire species”

“Word.”

“Britt, rev was talking about the body skater catching up to and passing motorcyclists.”

“Nay”

“uh oh”

“yeah I would love to have seen the look on their face as this guy went zooming by on his belly.

Granted, I wouldn't do it. But there are lots of things I wouldn't do.”

“oh, i understood what he was saying, i was just throwin in my 2 cents about what ive seen from motorists from luging. im sure the reactions would be much more exaggerated with this guy though! :) (are we in the wrong thread?? haha)”

“Nimblefoot is a nag...”

“how did my crazy skater post get in this thread?”

“haha, idk, why dont YOU tell US!!! ;0)”

““The biggest problem with "deciding" not to be depressed is that the chemical imbalances really work against that."
ramblinrev
3:05:38 PM
1/02/08

How do you know this? I happen to believe that the mind is very powerful, and can certainly "overpower" itself. One must only be more logical than the imbalance to overpower it. A 'naysayer' attitute will certainly bring quick defeat.

I am not suggesting the depression will necessarily leave, but the overpowering feeling that there is no hope can and will. Through hope, comes action.”
Sarge
3:12:27 PM
1/02/08

The research on this is pretty good. Short term, dealing with the chemical imbalance through medication and working on a person's depressive thinking and actions (cognitive behavioral therapy), both seem to work reasonably well. Long term, changes in thinking and outlook are longer lasting than the effects of medication. With medication, once you stop, the benefits of the meds don't last long. Also successful treatment of thoughts, emotions and behaviors not accomplished through meds tends to have positive side effects. Medication tends to be more likely to have unpleasant side effects.


The negative thinking that comes with depression is a major factor in most depression. Feeling hopeless, helpless and worthless makes people more depressed. As Sarge says, hope leads to the kinds of actions that make you less depressed.

Pure will power or a "just get over it" attitude seldom works. Sometimes taking that approach just leaves the depressed person feeling more helpless, hopeless and worthless. But working hard (often with a therapist) to test and challenge negative ("depressogenic") thinking, to work on relaxation, reducing anxiety etc... really does help as well - on average - as medications. The best results seem to come from combining the two.

I guess that means I pretty much agree with Sarge when he says:

"A good combination of properly administered and monitored drugs, along with a healthy attitude (a naysayer approach will not work my friends ...), a healthy diet, and a bit of healthy activity can cure any depression's symptoms."

Sarge
3:51:37 PM
1/02/08

[I assume Sarge meant "many of depressions symptoms"]”

“i don't know about that. whoever wrote that bunch of crap has never suffered a severe biochemical depression. i've fought hard against the tide of depression for the last 6 months, harder than i EVER fought before! and yet, there it was, threatening to swallow me up again. something that has been with me off and on since the age of nine years old. i restarted my lexapro in the first week of December and i'm already beginning to see the light.”

“Who wrote what crap?”

“Pam magically read that post without seeing my name - or else still has an axe to grind. I wonder which it is.

Funny how all the people who are STILL suffering from depression have all the solutions ...

i restarted my lexapro in the first week of December and i'm already beginning to see the light.

... and there it is.
last edited: 1/03/08 2:47:39 PM”

“I happen to believe that the mind is very powerful, and can certainly "overpower" itself. One must only be more logical than the imbalance to overpower it... am not suggesting the depression will necessarily leave, but the overpowering feeling that there is no hope can and will.

a mind that is disabled by depression cannot overcome itself. and duh, what is depression but a total lack of hope? what idiocy! ”

“Pam, maybe you're fighting too hard.

If you're constantly "battling" or "fighting" this, you won't win. You can't think of it that way in order to beat it. That's getting off on the wrong foot right from the git-go. You have to approach it from a positive perspective.

Look at it like this - compare it to something I know you don't experience ... too much weight. Imagine hearing somebody say "I have to FIGHT this weight-gain. It's a DIFFICULT battle." That person is setting themselves up for defeat. They have to take on a new lifestyle.

You have to take a step back and regroup. "Fix" your life one step at a time. Add a little bit of this, then a little bit of that. Meanwhile, take away the "sitting around" and the opportunities to contemplate negative thoughts.”

“a mind that is disabled by depression cannot overcome itself. and duh, what is depression but a total lack of hope? what idiocy!

You just majorly contradicted your whole point.

First, you said: whoever wrote that bunch of crap has never suffered a severe biochemical depression

Then you said: what is depression but a total lack of hope

Which is it? Biochemical, or mental?

It's humorous how you're throwing in the personal insults.”

“a mind that is disabled by depression cannot overcome itself.

Sure it can, if it wants to. That's the key. Some people aren't as interested in getting better as they are being sick. You have to want to have a normal life, you can't enjoy being mentally ill. Some people do, and it makes their challenge impossible.”

“The thing about depression is that it is a natural downward progression. Once a mind is in a downward spiral it's natural direction is to continue down. I have dealt with depression and have learned that the very opposite can and is true (for me at least). When a mind finds itself in a good place we can conscientiously work to cause an UPWARD spiral where the natural progression is reversed and tends to go upward.

By choosing to be happy and concentrating on my emunah I find that I am running around high as a kite and happy all the time. Even when the shat hits the fan. Oh sure I have an off day now and again I know few people as calm and happy as I am now.

But this of course is me and everyone is deferent.”

“But this of course is me and everyone is deferent. - Nigal

Considering almost all of the SUCCESSFUL people feel the way that you and I do, I'm not so sure they are so different.”

“Nigal... in dealing with depression it is important to be distinct as to what type of depression you are dealing with. Clinical depression is a unique condition. Emotional depression such as you describe above does respond well to positive thinking. Clinical depression does not.There is a very distinct difference in there onset and presentation. Emotional depression, if left unaddressed may or may not become clinical depression. In clinical depression the imbalance is already well established when the emotional depression shows up. You can think your way out of emotional depression but that does not really effect the imbalance of the clinical depression. As you say your mileage may vary. Clinical depression is based, not so much on emotional feelings but on medical data. It is difficult to diagnose clinical depression in your self by your self.

the medical profession is beginning to use "depression" to be clinical depression. They are beginning to use terms like "mood maladjustment" for the emotional depression.
last edited: 1/03/08 3:23:52 PM”

“And that kind of logic is why there are so many people in America on anti-depressants with little to no success in their overall happiness.

This is a fraud established by the psychologists and fed upon by the drug companies.

Yes, clinical depression often needs drugs to correct, but the psychologists don't focus correctly on the type of thinking necessary to overcome it completely. They've defined the term in such a way that by their definition, clinical depression cannot be corrected through proper thinking/living - but I think that's only because they (as an industry) don't properly administer the proper advise on how to overcome.”

“Sarge, please define "successful" people.”

“people who have overcome their depression to the point of it no longer negatively affecting their lives”

“Clinical depression is a unique condition.

Oh for sure. That's why I clarified it by saying "this is just me". Depression is like cancer, very different from person to person. There's a difference between getting the blues from time to time and say, someone else who takes to their bed for days at a time (my friend for example).

I hope I didn't come across as sounding like everyone and anyone can simply think their way out of a deep hole. It is also the circumstances that people live in. I mean, let's face it, it's easier for me (with a great life, wife, good health and a great job) to stay out of the hole than it is for someone living in poverty and having no family.”

“It's also easier for somebody who don't know how to think themselves out of a deep hole to live in poverty, have no family, etc..”

“Take away a rich person's million dollars, and give them a dollar, and he'll end up with a million dollars.

Give a poor man a million dollars, and he'll end up with a dollar.”

“Facile statement perhaps, but not true for a lot of people with inherited wealth or trust funds. Also seems to be contrary to the experience with projects like Grumin bank.”

“By choosing to be happy and concentrating on my emunah I find that I am running around high as a kite and happy all the time. Even when the shat hits the fan. Oh sure I have an off day now and again I know few people as calm and happy as I am now.

But this of course is me and everyone is deferent.�
Nigal
3:59:54 PM
1/03/08


Sounds like it really works. You must have the cleanest colon around. But what does this have to do with depression?

PS: FYI, I think it's spelled e-n-e-m-a.”

“but not true for a lot of people with inherited wealth or trust funds

split hairs much? how about miss the point much? It wasn't meant to be a literal statement of fact.”

“Emunah was spelled correctly.
It's a Jewish term.”

“sigh.......work with me here, Stovie.....:)”

“Both work -

By choosing to be happy and concentrating on my enema I find that I am running around high as a kite and happy all the time. Even when the shat hits the fan.”

“Noncon, maybe this will help....

PS: FYI, I think it's spelled e-n-e-m-a.
”

“..of course with Nigal, you never know. ;-)
last edited: 1/03/08 6:43:23 PM”

“telegraphed the punchline huh? dangitall.”

“I hope I didn't come across as sounding like everyone and anyone can simply think their way out of a deep hole.

I did not take that to be your meaning Nigal. But there are many, particularly in the faith based community who are quick to blame the sufferer. "You just don't have enough faith." "You didn't pray hard enough." "You don't pray properly."

I was responding to those kinds of comments which I hear all too often.”

“

"reverend"”

“split hairs much? how about miss the point much? It wasn't meant to be a literal statement of fact.”
Sarge
10:37:43 PM
1/03/08

Not even metaphorically true of a lot of people who come by a million bucks (especially through inheritance).

The point is that the facile truism you offered was false, what we have left is an unsupported prejudice about poor people perpetuating their own poverty and rich people being worthy of their wealth.”

“addendum... self-sanctimonious twits are not reserved to the community of faith either. Similar phrases occur in non-faith settings. "Just snap out of it." "You suffer from stinking thinking.. look at me I am always happy." (except for the time they beat their spouse or piss people off to the point they end up on ignore.) but those are same general logic.

Clarification: Nigal none of thise were aimed at you. Just general observations.”

“Not even metaphorically true of a lot of people who come by a million bucks

"a lot"? Yeah - of the biased sample you chose, "a lot".

The truism I offered was NOT false. If you think lottery winners and inheritance gainers don't often lose their money, you're out of the loop. People who know how to make it (self-made millionaires such as Donald Trump), can and DO regain their riches after a loss.

Get the stick out of your ass. You remind me of Al Gore, but more 2-dimensional.”

“self-sanctimonious twits



Rev, someday you'll have to share with us what website you got ordained from.

If you're depressed, and you want to follow a man who says you can't do it - that people who have done it through "positive thinking" are twits and just wrong, yet the person himself is obviously depressed, I'd recommend against that. Just a general observation.”

“Ramblinrev - You've obviously taken personal offense to my opinion/approach. You really need to get a life man. Put me on ignore like you've said over and over you have (a rev wouldn't lie would he?).”

“pedxing - Do you know what the average amount of a loan is to beggers for Grameen Bank? ... and do you know how much of that gets paid back?

I did a little research, and their "real-world" practice may surprise you.
last edited: 1/03/08 7:46:28 PM”

“this thread is making me depressed”

“I'm sorry that Ramblin"rev" turned this into a personal vendetta. It would be so much nicer if he would just use the ignore feature like he promised so we could have a discussion of views without the hissy fit.”