Depression

“crash.... the topic of depression often has that effect on others. hehehe”

“what works for me is recognising that the depression i feel from time to time is chemical. realizing that its actually a physical (or physiological) symptom, and that i don't have to feel this way, helps me to feel better again. one of the best cures for depression is having something to work towards. with the start of the new year, i've been working on researching potential job leads for my next esl contract, as well as starting to plan a little more in depth for some big backpacking trips this summer

other little things help, too. tidying up and cleaning up the apartment, for one. i'm normally such a disorganized slob, and it contributes to my state of mind. when i get organized, tidy up a bit, and keep better track of my finances, i feel better about myself. music helps. it unravels my brain. tt helps, but its better if i keep it at a moderation and not get addicted to it. if nothing is going on, i need to move away from the keyboard and do something else. i recently acquired a nice comfy chair for the apartment, so now i have a nice place to sit to grade notebooks, so i'm better prepared for work and dont have to rush to get everything done. sometimes, random things that someone says make a huge difference. recently, one of my co-workers who I had had some friction with told me that he had mis-judged me and now understands where i'm coming from. just that one short conversation went a long way in my relationships with all my co-workers, because i had felt that they were kind of clique-ish before (they still are, but at least now i feel i'm sort of in their clique a little bit). breaking down and analyzing your situation is helpful. at first, i felt like everyone at my school was against me, then i got to thinking about it, and it was really only a couple of sort of b!tchy teachers that were making me feel that way, with their snotty, catty, or condescending remarks. once i isolated where the anxiety was coming from, it was easier to deal with

well, my fifteen minutes on the couch are up, i better start getting ready for work
last edited: 1/03/08 8:19:37 PM”

“what works for me is recognising that the depression i feel from time to time is chemical. realizing that its actually a physical (or physiological) symptom, and that i don't have to feel this way, helps me to feel better again.

I like the way you put that. The operative phrase I see is "from time to time". True clinical depression often lasts for years. It is steady and constant. In fact often it becomes so "normal" that none of the strategies you use, (which incidentally I applaud) even seem possible. The situation is further complicated by the fact that clinical depression will often manifest as phyisical illness that inhibit our life, seem to never go away and don't show up in medical results. I suffered from constant respritory problems, I would get bronchitis every time the weather changed. But there was no medical reason I should be so afflicted. That went away when I finally got my clinical depression treated. The two seem unrelated at first glance but it is not so surprising once you know more about the condition of clinical depression.”

“of course, the best cure for a case of the blues is to get a case of the greens (as well as some purple mountain majesties)

”

“now I'm depressed.... fudgepots... I could have been living in Korea a few years ago. Sometimes I wish that job had come through.”

“thank you rev for writing about chemical/clinical depression, a lot of people don't understand it. you are very helpful.

:)”

“But there are many, particularly in the faith based community who are quick to blame the sufferer. "You just don't have enough faith." "You didn't pray hard enough." "You don't pray properly."

If it's one thing I have learned from my job is that I have absolutely no earthly idea how others feel or what they are going through because I've never even had to do it. I don't even try to act otherwise. I try to apply that to every other aspect of my life as well.”

“Pamela.. thank you for the kind words. You might want to pick up a copy of Sheila Walsh's book on depression. I have not read the book itself but I have seen reviews of it. It is supposed to be very good. If I remember correctly she left 700 Club after she went public about her own struggle with clinical depression. Pat Robertson was not at all happy with she had to say.

http://www.amazon.com/Honestly-Sheila-Walsh/dp/0310219167/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1199446541&sr=1-4

I think that is the book. It is supposed to be very good.”

“rev, that pictures not from korea. i didnt even take it. i just googled it. i suspect parts of japan are like that, tho”

“I feel better now... thanks for that tidbit.
I figured that was out your window....”

“Again, it's the people who are still stricken from depression who look to the people who say it's a life-long affliction. It's a conscious decision they've made to believe that. They want to hear that. It gives them comfort that they have an "incurable disease". It's a badge.”

“Thanks, doc”

“The "doctors" have been taught how to make a career of treating patients. Much like chiropractors. You'd be a rare specimen if you go to a chiropractor who says he can't help you with your problem, or won't find a problem you need help with. Time and time again people go to the psychologists and not cured of this. They're told (as they are here) what they want to hear - that they have a physical/chemical problem that can't be corrected, only helped by medicine and some counseling. B*S* It a lie. Nobody wins in that situation. The patients have to be told the truth, and shown what hope is. There are those on here who would rather strip people of their hope, and be able to "nurse them forever" to win their affection than tell them what they don't want to hear - that they can get better.

You want to trust a "doctor" just because he's a doctor? That's like trusting an insurance salesman because he has your best interests at heart. My experience time and time and time again is that doctors have no clue when it comes to giving a proper diagnosis.
last edited: 1/04/08 5:16:44 AM”

“

Not sure if that is a cure.. or a result... but it seems to be appropriate.”

“i trusted the medical community more when they werent hawking their treatments in every other television, radio, internet, and magazine ad”

“Some in the medical profession have a lot in common with televangelists... and used car salesmen.”

“only helped by medicine and some counseling. B*S* It a lie. - Sarge

As much as it pains me to say *anything* positive about the inane soft science of psychology and the can't-do's who persue psychology, they are right that a combination medications and cognitive/behavioral therapy (neither of which can be credited to psychology of course) does have a real medical efficacy in treatment. The literature bears this out.

That said, I totally agree that depression is an industry and much of what the quack psychologists do is simply perpetuating it.”

“Some in the medical profession ...

Yes. Psychologists and chiropractors.”

“they are right that a combination medications and cognitive/behavioral therapy (neither of which can be credited to psychology of course) does have a real medical efficacy in treatment. The literature bears this out.

This is exactly what I said earlier.”

“sarge said it first. give him a gold star




last edited: 1/04/08 5:41:19 AM”

“Well you stated that drugs helped, but that psychologists don't "focus correctly on the type of thinking necessary to overcome it". If they're following what's been shown to work, they do (or should, anyway)”

“Mutt... a great many physicians are adamently opposed to direct advertising from the pharmaceutical companies for that reason. Rather than relying on the medical foundations of diagnosis and treatment patients are sucked into the realm of marketing. "Ask your doctor if (insert name here) is right for you." is a worse than useless disclaimer.”

“crash - I didn't say that to claim firstsies. I said that because Mutt thought I was saying the opposite of what he was saying, when I wasn't.”

“Well you stated that drugs helped, but that psychologists don't "focus correctly on the type of thinking necessary to overcome it". If they're following what's been shown to work, they do (or should, anyway)

The difference lies in the part of my statement that you ommitted when quoting me. Specifically, "They're told (as they are here) what they want to hear - that they have a physical/chemical problem that can't be corrected, ..."

They present it as a long-term solution, when, if done correctly, it can be a permanent solution.”

“i havent given anyone in a gold star in awhile. it was about time”

“By choosing to be happy and concentrating on my emunah I find that I am running around high as a kite and happy all the time. Even when the shat hits the fan. Oh sure I have an off day now and again I know few people as calm and happy as I am now.

But this of course is me and everyone is deferent. - Nigal

Anyone else noticed the subtle smarmy elitism in Nigal's post? Basically what he's saying is that his faith cures his depression, but hey, that's just him because he believes in the True Faith and he understands that others are either Lost or not as truly faithful as him, and that makes him part of the spiritual elite which he can be happy about.

That's a really hollow happiness. I suppose it beats depression, but how slimey, particularly to bring that sentiment to a thread where real people are discussing their depression.
last edited: 1/04/08 5:48:36 AM”

“You sure added a lot of words to his words to make your point Mutt about what he was saying Mutt. Maybe next time you could ask him to clarify instead of making up a whole broadway play around his words.”

“Not really Sarge. And I doubt Nigal will be pleased about you trying to defend him.”

“Lest I be misunderstood... once again I reiterate my advocacy of medications is in the responsible, medically supervised treatment of clinical depression. Other wise we are back to "mommy's little helper" mentality.”

“as opposed to the smarmy elitism of silly people who injure their dumb asses trying to sleep in a tree, and then b!tch and moan about all the fake backpackers who have the nerve to hike on trails instead of being big tough burly hikers like they are”

“They present it as a long-term solution, when, if done correctly, it can be a permanent solution. - Sarge

Oh I think I see where you're coming from now. Took me a minute due to your vagueness.
last edited: 1/04/08 5:56:02 AM”

“Took me a minute due to your vagueness.

I was specific. Remember, you discarded half of my sentence above when you quoted me. Similar to when you doubled Nigal's post above.”

“LOL@crashbang. My knee hasn't been the same since then. That you ridicule a person with a physical malady is very telling about your character.

Oh and you "suburban sidewalk in the woods" hikers ARE a bunch of pansies.”

“Mutt... long term is correct usage in terms of clinical depression. Some folks do go off the medications in time, others remain on it for life.”

“I was specific. Remember, you discarded half of my sentence above when you quoted me. - Sarge

No, I meant you were vague considering the totality of your posts in this thread. Why are you saying you can read my mind about what I meant about you being vague?”

“That's what I thought. Thanks Rev.”

“Mutt sees religious posts like XL sees libbie posts.”

“Boom, Boom, Ain't It Great to be Crazy?

Written By: Unknown
Copyright Unknown


A horse and a flea and three blind mice
Sat on a curbstone shooting dice
The horse he slipped and fell on the flea
"Whoops," said the flea, "There's a horse on me!"

Boom, boom, ain't it great to be crazy?
Boom, boom, ain't it great to be crazy?
Giddy and foolish the whole day through
Boom, boom, ain't it great to be crazy?

Way down South where bananas grow
A flea stepped on an elephant's toe
The elephant cried, with tears in his eyes
"Why don't you pick on someone your own size?"

Boom, boom, ain't it great to be crazy?
Boom, boom, ain't it great to be crazy?
Giddy and foolish the whole day through
Boom, boom, ain't it great to be crazy?

Way up North where there's ice and snow
There lived a penguin and his name was Joe
He got so tired of black and white
He wore pink slacks to the dance last night!

Boom, boom, ain't it great to be crazy?
Boom, boom, ain't it great to be crazy?
Giddy and foolish the whole day through
Boom, boom, ain't it great to be crazy?

Eli, Eli had some socks
A dollar a pair and a nickel a box
The more you wear 'em the better they get
And you put 'em in the water and they don't get wet!

Boom, boom, ain't it great to be crazy?
Boom, boom, ain't it great to be crazy?
Giddy and foolish the whole day through
Boom, boom, ain't it great to be crazy?

Called myself on the telephone
Just to hear that golden tone
Asked myself out for a date
Said be ready 'bout half-past eight!

Boom, boom, ain't it great to be crazy?
Boom, boom, ain't it great to be crazy?
Giddy and foolish the whole day through
Boom, boom, ain't it great to be crazy?

Took myself to the picture show
Sat myself on the very last row
Wrapped my arms around my waist
Got so fresh I slapped my face!

Boom, boom, ain't it great to be crazy?
Boom, boom, ain't it great to be crazy?
Giddy and foolish the whole day through
Boom, boom, ain't it great to be crazy?”

“Mutt sees religious posts like XL sees libbie posts. - Nonconformist

Er, Nigal directly mentioned one of his religious fictions in his post.”

“Why are you saying you can read my mind about what I meant about you being vague? - Mutt

You were referencing a specific thing that I said. You even (half) quoted it.”

“No kidding. Lets try to be helpful and supportive. This is not supposed to be a fuego debate and attack thread.”

“Perhaps it would be helpful to broaden the discussion somewhat. Setting issues of sectarian religion aside... the person is made up of three parts. Body, mind, and spirit. Please note... I would consider those who send good vibes and good thoughts in the midst of crisis to be operating in a spiritual arena. They do so in the belief of the efficacy of those thoughts and vibes. A belief that somehow those thoughts and vibes transcend themselves.

When all three aspects are healthy, the body the mind and the environment if you must, then things are balanced and we get along well. When one of those three is unhealthy, the other two suffer. When two are unhealthy the third is easily overwhelmed.

Anti-depressant meds treat the body. They do not directly affect the moods. Early generations of anti-depressants did affect the moods. The moods were evened out to the point of there being absolutely no highs or lows. No pleasure, no pain. Horrible way to live.

Meds now correct a chemical imbalance which affects the body. The therapy component affects the mind. We know there are emotional wounds and hurts which can be incredibly painful. These emotional pains can even present themselves as physical pain. But they are emotional in origin. The pain of a stress headache may be masked by aspirin, but it is still there and returns when the aspirin wears off. Only by relieving the stress does the headache really go away.

the spirit is affected by the environment in which we find ourselves. Put a denouncer of Christianity in a revival meeting and he would probably either be in hog heaven as far as watching the "deceived be led astray", or he would be miserable being held captive in what may be seen as a hostile environment. Either way, he would be affected in mood and body.

Asking two of the three parts to make the third healthy can be an oppressive task. Asking one to heal the other two is well nigh impossible. The easiest way I have seen is to support all three parts with whatever aides are available. Meds, therapy and faith all play a role.”

“. Put a denouncer of Christianity in a revival meeting and he would probably either be in hog heaven as far as watching the "deceived be led astray", or he would be miserable being held captive in what may be seen as a hostile environment.

Hey "preacher" man. Why don't you leave your hatred of Christians out of your discussions. The other option is they could be converted. I hear people telling their story of it happening all the time. You denounce Christians more than Mutt. No wonder you were "audited". You're a fraud.”

“Er, Nigal directly mentioned one of his religious fictions in his post.”
Mutt
8:33:15 AM
1/04/08


I know he did. He practically tried to cram it down your throat too. You gonna be okay? Need some water? A timeout?


But I'll rephrase it anyway: Mutt sees and interprets and responds to "religious" posts like XL does to "libbie" posts.”

“N.C.

Color me confused with this sentence of yours: "He practically tried to cram it down your throat too."


I could have sworn earlier in the threead that Nigal was happy with getting an enema.


That most decidedly is NOT cramming something down your throat, but instead up your a$$.


Which . . ..if it makes Nigal happy . ..then I am happy for him.”

“LOL! Ya got me there, lee!”

“man...! What a madhouse! I used to love this thread and you just turned it into a madhouse. You all are nuts! Yes, you are. I mean all of you - those who love their meds and those who don't.”

“those who love their meds and those who don't

What if we just partially like the meds, and believe they work, but aren't real super crazy about them?”

“Yepper, Euro.
This thread went south with a quickness. I'm now sorry I bumped it.”